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After about 500 hours, these are some of the things I think the game would benefit from or at least things I'd like to see implemented. Let me know what you think. 

  1. Starvation as an affliction. Being continuously starving or ravenous for 30 in-game hours will cause you to develop starvation risk, shown as a progression bar similar to how hypothermia/intestinal parasite risk already works. As the meter progresses you'll gradually get de-buffs to fatigue, by 1% per every 5% of risk with a max fatigue lost being the current 50%. It will decrease by say 5% per every 200 calories consumed. However, when the bar reaches 100% starvation becomes a full affliction, causing freezing rate to increase (starving should make you colder as you’re losing fat insulation), gradual condition lost, and carry weight to be reduced by 11lbs. It's full affliction can be treated/mitigated by being above ravenous for at least three in-game days; you can't get the well fed buff while recovering from starvation. This way the game is more punishing for players using the famous hibernation exploit long term, while still allowing players to briefly starve for a short amount of time before it becomes a full affliction. Starvation could effect the appearance of the survivor in the clothing menu making survivor could look more gaunt; eyes sunken in, ribs showing.
  2. The addition of a nutrition system. It would make calorie consumption a more careful decision process and force players to hunt/fish more instead of hoarding canned foods in one spot. Different foods could have different nutrition stats along with the current calorie counts showing fats and proteins. For example, rabbits being extremely lean irl are mostly protein; bear meat containing alot more fat in comparison. Protein poisoning (rabbit starvation/mal de caribou) could be another risk bar players could get if they don't get enough fat in their diet, with the full affliction causing fatigue and hunger rate to be increased. Both the bar and full affliction can be mitigated by consuming more fats and less protein till the bar becomes lower. Too many fats in someone’s diet could cause fatigue rate to increase a little. The new Well Fed buff would also offer added cold resistance as well, similar to the cold fusion feat, and be achieved by preventing both protein poisoning risk and starvation risk for three days. 
  3. Deeper cooking mechanics. It’d be nice to be able to mix/cook different foods into recipes for higher calorie foods like stews or pemmican. For example; pemmican could yield around 2,000 calories. I usually like using the MRE's as emergency rations due to the high calories, so having a crafted option would be great late-game. These recipes can be something unlocked through cooking skill level. With the nutrition system, they could also add necessary fats or proteins to different foods. For example; stews could yield a little bit of fat content in comparison to just regular cooked meat. Cooking recipes could be something only done with the cooking pot, giving players more incentive to carry one.
  4. Another slot for gloves (inner and outer layer). Have small gloves like driving gloves or cloth hand wraps as an inner layer, and large gloves like the rabbitskin mitts or gauntlets as an outer. Potentially have this further effect gameplay than just warmth, for ex; you can't fire a the rifle or revolver while still wearing mitts.
  5. Carrying fire. Being able to carry smoldering fire coals in fire bundles made of birch bark or containers like recycled cans and old man's beard lichen as filler to keep the coals smoldering. A fire bundle could last about 6 in game hours and only be used to start one fire, saving the amount of matches used and the lifespan of firestrikers.                                                    9FA75457-6528-46BA-9BC8-266B5FC32EDD.jpeg.235fd23c8741f27003444480b877cb3e.jpeg
  6. More crafted items. Maybe a buckskin shirt, similar in stats to the fisherman's sweater with a higher waterproofing (50%) and protection rating (8%), but slightly heavier (0.7kg) and less warm (1.7 C). Matches with the deerskin boots and pants so it's very fashionable. Socks could be further insulated by up to .3C by adding cattail down to them, giving cattail heads some usefulness after fire starting level 3.  Deerskins could also be sources for leather, maybe one cured deerskin could yield two pieces of leather that takes another 2 days to cure. Cured leather could also be used as a strop to sharpen axes or knives, however being less efficient and effective than a whetstone. Bough beds already exist in some caves in-game. They could be be crafted from sticks or branches and be immovable once placed in a location, and decay in a rate similar to snow shelters. More edible or medicinal plants or fungi could be added, some examples; horsehair lichen (Bryoria fremontii), which can be eaten if boiled or crafted into bandages, and root chicory (Cichorium intybus), which has been historically used as a coffee substitute.                                                                                       Buckskin-Pullover.jpg.84aa6ee97fba4c2ecfbb33e43243a4e4.jpgtumblr_ny2ogbd0cb1tmun60o1_1280.thumb.jpg.113d61ef6cb2d977e498fbaa85308342.jpg
  7. Held equipment inspect key and animations. If implemented they count get rid of the ammo count for guns on the bottom right of the screen, making the game a little more immersive and challenging the player to keep count of their ammunition. The rifle having an animation where the bolt is partially opened to check if it's loaded; the revolver by opening the cylinder. Visual cues could serve as ways to tell a held items condition. Lower condition weapons like the revolver and rifle could have more dirt or rust on them compared to newer weapons. Bows could be checked for fraying on the bowstring so you can differentiate between selected bows of different conditions. 
  8. Make the Bearskin bedroll more durable. In my experience (I mainly play stalker difficulty) the bearskin roll decays way to fast when not in use and takes too much damage from animal attacks to be worth the effort in crafting and maintaining. Perhaps I'm experiencing a bug, but every game I've crafted a it, it usually only lasts about a week before its stats diminish below that of the standard cloth bedroll or gets ruined.
  9. More injuries like broken limbs during falls. More severe falls that don't outright kill the player will result in a broken leg. Broken legs will cause players to walk with a limb until treated (if both legs are broken the player will be reduced to a crawl), pain, and cause a permanent condition damage by 2%, and last about 5 days after treatment, that requires a traction splint made from cloth and sticks. Broken arms could be something that happens randomly during bear attacks or after falls, that prevent the player from firing a bow or rifle, or aiming with the revolver or flare gun and lasts about 3 days after treatment, requiring a arm splint made from sticks and cloth. 
  10. Character customization. A character creation menu at the start of survival mode would be nice. Options to change skin color, hair, and facial features to add a degree of personalization, rather than relying on the Will and Astrid character models.
  11. A mountain man themed DLC or sequel. I always try to be Jeremiah Johnson in game so why not take it further: a survival mode DLC based on the early 1820's during previous aurora event (maybe the "first flare" wasn't the first). Instead of crashed pilots we could be lost fur trappers. It would require completely redesigning most of the existing maps, removing of course much of the buildings, the roads, and railways and reverting them to full forests, making the maps seem familiar but with new features. There could still be abandoned cabins or trading posts, or remnants of native settlements. The game-mode would have period accurate equipment like flintlock muskets, etc. and force players to rely on natural alternatives to things found in the base-game. Many of the aforementioned suggestions would work with this game mode. The setting could provide subtle hints to the early history of the island and it's original inhabitants (along with their interactions with outsiders and/or what happened to them).                                           image-20160228-26697-fgiu0x.jpg.fc14751f9a680b654a9477c887adaa0d.jpg
Edited by one_shurbbery
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1. This sounds interesting due to the increased challenge it would create but I wouldn't call the starvation tactic an exploit. irl in a survival situation you wouldn't try to stay full everyday you would ration your food this could mean going a day or 2 without food.

2. This could be very interesting but I don't see how it would work, it would require a massive overhaul to the hunger system,  as well as a lot of changes to the ui. The biggest issue I see is if your character is full but lacking a few important nutrients, as the game is now you can't overeat. With this system you would occasionally have to overeat in order to not get penalized for a missing nutrient if you are already full. I could see something like this for TLD2 if one is made but not on the current game.

3. All for this, A proper cooking system like this would add so much to the game. Also would love to see an addition to this a moral bar where if it gets to low your survivor could start hallucinating. Eating a prepared meal like soups or stews will increase moral. 

4. Don't see the major benefit of this as you can already get pretty good warmth bonuses as it is now. Neutral on this.

5. Like this idea a lot especially if playing interloper where matches are generally hard to find.

6. More craftables are always a plus if balanced properly.

7. I like this though one change instead of getting rid of the ammo count entirely it would remain but instead just show a total amount of ammo and wouldn't show what's loaded. This way we wouldn't have to open the inventory everytime we want to see how much ammo is left and only click a button that will have the caracter check if loaded. Could be done by pressing the reload button once which will have the character visibly check and If you see it isn't fully loaded you could press the reload button again to get the character to reload, if it is loaded you just click back (circle on ps4 I'm unsure of PC assuming it's esc?) 

8. I have yet to use that bedroll thus can't comment on this.

9. I play with sprains off due to how annoying they are and the fact that they cause my game to lock up for a few minutes. I don't believe this would be as annoying considering you have to fall in order to break a leg but it may still lock my game up like sprains do if so I would end up disabling it. I'm unsure of this one.

10. Neutral to this. Would add personalization but overall it's not massively important. 

11. This sounds interesting but seems like a lot of work for hinterland to add can see why you mentioned DLC as I definitely don't see this being added to the base game. Unsure of this either way it sounds interesting but not hurting if it isn't added. 

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I get this feeling like TLD is nearing the end of its development.  Maybe there is still a bunch in the works yet to be released, but I suspect this is gonna be the last year we see any major adjustments(I could be wrong and a deeply hope that I am).

Maybe if they come up with a season pass type deal, that would work.  I'd sign up immediately.  That or announce a sequel or follow up title that they have been working on.

I love the idea of making systems like cooking(for example) into something more elaborate.  To me TLD is a life simulator just as much as it is a survival or hiking sim.  

My problem is that there isn't quite enough to do once you are stuck inside from a blizzard, besides prep mushrooms, repair gear, strategize your next move and wait basically.

To me the less they make you have to use that "pass time" option the better.  So I would say that prioritizing activities that can be done inside a shelter might be a good place to start.

I would also like to add that I think one of the great things TLD has going for it is it's simplicity.  So, I would worry about making a game where you are always monitoring and maintaining many different "spinning plates" instead of stopping and admiring the sheer beauty of it all.

Hope some of that jives with what you are suggesting.

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5 hours ago, LoneWolf5841 said:

 

4. Don't see the major benefit of this as you can already get pretty good warmth bonuses as it is now. Neutral on this.

 

I agree.

First off, It is not hard to imagine the character slipping off a mitt right before taking aim and sure implementing this would be a subtle improvement in the overall esthetic, but hardly a major priority, especially at this point.

I would rather see an added slot made for the new Crampons and/or a scarf and/or moose hide satchel.

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Posted (edited)

@LoneWolf5841 Thanks for commenting :) You made some great points so I'll try to respond to some of them.

1) True. IRL, a human being under normal conditions can generally go 3 weeks without food. According to the wiki's section on hunger: "When no more calories are in the calorie store, condition drains at a rate of 1% each hour. Dying of starvation will, therefore, take a little while, and will require four game days if starting from 100% condition." Also from the wiki: "A player that remains starving for more than 24 hours will start to have their fatigue affected; the maximal amount of energy that the player will be able to acquire through sleep will start to decrease, which is represented by the red color that starts filling up the inside of the fatigue bar, as well as by the yellow exclamation mark that appears next to the eye icon, symbolizing the fatigue bar. The maximum amount of fatigue that a player can have will decrease by 2% per hour, with a maximum decrease of 50%. Once the player has started eating, the fatigue cap will decrease by 5% per hour until it is fully removed. This issue is easily solved by consuming food, the red color won't vanish immediately, but the player will be allowed to gain full energy from sleep right away." So currently in-game the effects of starvation occur much faster, which I think makes some sense considering the amount of calories one may expend in a survival situation, especially in a cold environment. My bad on calling it an exploit, it is a legitimate way of playing the game. I thought maybe a better route would be to go off the average amount of calories the player expends and average calories consumed, which is something the game does track in the stats page. The more calories you expend, the faster the starvation risk bar goes up. 

2) I somewhat agree that it may be hard to implement. I do think the system I propose would be the easiest way, at least the easiest I could think of, to implement a nutrition system. Not as extreme as Green Hell, but something at least. The main thing I would try to get at with a system like this is the importance of fat in a cold environment. Like on shows like Alone for example, contestants in the Arctic are always concerned about not getting enough fat in their diet for a good reason. I do hope that if they don't implement this in the current game they'll consider it for a sequel. 

3) I disagree about adding a morale bar, even tho it is an interesting idea. IMO, the player is the morale system. Alot of people admit that things get very boring late-game, leading them to quit and start a new game or do something reckless. I think relying on the player's investment would do a better job in immersion than a bar. 

4) I got the idea from a set of military mittens I have that are meant to be worn with seperate wool liners. They are very warm together however hard to do anything with the bigger outer shell on lol. I get why it could be annoying in an emergency to have to take off mittens in order to fire a weapon, maybe they could come off automatically when the weapon is selected or it could be an option in settings to have it be manual. 

7) I like this idea even better having it all be one button. I play on PC so I forget to take into consideration controllers. 

9) I'm honestly unsure on this one too. I do think it'd be a good addition considering we already have broken ribs. 

11) Yeah I doubt I'll ever see it, but I think it would definitely make a great sequel (I guess it'd be more of a prequel) or better yet DLC. 

 

Edited by one_shurbbery
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39 minutes ago, Mig_zvm said:

I get this feeling like TLD is nearing the end of its development.  Maybe there is still a bunch in the works yet to be released, but I suspect this is gonna be the last year we see any major adjustments(I could be wrong and a deeply hope that I am).

I have the same feeling in a way.

41 minutes ago, Mig_zvm said:

My problem is that there isn't quite enough to do once you are stuck inside from a blizzard, besides prep mushrooms, repair gear, strategize your next move and wait basically.

I forgot this. I commented on a thread about candles, I forgot to put that on the list tho 

 

44 minutes ago, Mig_zvm said:

I would also like to add that I think one of the great things TLD has going for it is it's simplicity.  So, I would worry about making a game where you are always monitoring and maintaining many different "spinning plates" instead of stopping and admiring the sheer beauty of it all.

That's also my concern considering alot of my suggestions, which is why I wish to discuss them with people. I do think simplicity is something the game should balance when implementing anything, which I think Hinterland does a good job at. That simplicity is definitely one of the core tenets of the game. That and the degree of realism in survival mode is what got me playing and keeps me playing. Thanks for your comment :)

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12 hours ago, Mig_zvm said:

I get this feeling like TLD is nearing the end of its development.  Maybe there is still a bunch in the works yet to be released, but I suspect this is gonna be the last year we see any major adjustments(I could be wrong and a deeply hope that I am).

Yeah hopefully there is more planned. I feel like if they do stop development it will be after episode 5 of wintemute. Hopefully they'll continue updating the game but obviously eventually they will have to move on to another project.

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With several suggestions it gets a bit difficult to respond in a sense I would like, so took my time here. Here are my points, will try to be conscise. Sorry ahead of the time if I appear blunt or maybe even slightly rude, it is not my intention to insult anyone. Just want to provide my feedback to this very extensive topic and set of ideas :).

1. For starters, I dont think hibernation is that much of a problem like it was in the past, before Well fed bonus. Still, I agree with you the game would benefit from something that would be the opposition to Well fed buff. As far as the mechanics go, I think they are alright. Perhaps the condition hit might be smaller, i personally would say that 20% condition decrease would be more fair, but if it were 50, I dont think it would be a problem, just more ruthless. The problem I do feel with your system comes from how it is reached. 30 hours of not eating means this addition would be entirely pointless. No player ever goes hungry for 30 hours, or rather very few do. Hibernation trick works in a sense that you starve whole day while doing tasks, then eat just enough to sleep long enough to recover all your fatigue,  and condition hit from the starving, and then continue starving the next day. So, in a sense, you starve for 12 hours or so, then eat enough for 10-12 hours of sleep, and repeat. Taking 30% of condition hit through starving is unwise because it makes you succeptible to dying from animal struggles and when you are losing condition by starving, you dont recover any condition from resting. 

So, the 30 hour mark of starving would not prevent the general hibernation strategy. Perhaps the risk build-up should be slower, but start buildign up as soon as the player is starving. It would be easy to break simply by eating something and jumping out of that starving for a bit over the more then two in-game days period.

2. I am a fan of Well fed bonus including temp boost to feels like, if its minor. Not a big fan of nutrition system. While perhaps realistic, also too overly complicated for the game. But perhaps it could be done a bit different way. Rather then making it forced by the game by strictly following nutritional mechanics, turning the game into some sort of a simulator, the game could provide some extra benefits for things like balanced diet, and instead provide detriments such as protein poisoning from eating just rabbits all the time. While at the same time not changing the game caloric value at all. Something of a hidden game mechanics that woudl provide small boosts if the survivors ate a more balanced diet. So mixing fish, venison, rabbit meats, drinking both water and birch bark tea, switching between big game animal meats and meats of smaller animals. To not punish the people who just crunch on bear meat all the time, but rather reward people who mix it. 

I had this idea brooding in my mind for a while but its far too early for me to come up with a system I believe could work. Not sure how to make the game track the foods eaten by the player overtime. 

3. Here is something I keep wishing for. There is potential here to make cooking more varied. Not sure about pemmican, would require things like tallow in the game to make it more feasible, but I guess it would work. Personally I think it would be just better if the game had pre-set locations around the world where meat could be dried, to turn it into a lighter, more lasting piece of food that would not smell so much, something like a crafted food option to use for traveling. Stews are a must! I can see myself using these a lot - even if it were a food piece that spoils quickly, cooking up a stew and carry it for short trips to drink a piece of hot meal on a break and get that warm core bonus is just perfect. It would be a great meal option for specific situations which makes it fit TLD so well. And the added quick condition decay would make it a balanced option compared to normal fried meats or other options, like the dried meats or the pemmican you mentioned. I am all for a more extensive cooking suggestion.

4. I have seen this idea pop up recently in discussions and while I like it, having to take off gloves manually might just make the game too tedious. Rather then "prevent" the player from using weapons, maybe it should prolong how long it takes for the player to pull out a weapon. But I dont know. Gotta be careful with these type of suggestions to not over-do it and make the game less immersive by adding tedious tasks to combat the player all throughout the gameplay. I think essentially it s a good idea, but needs to be reworked to fit in better with the game. Cant think of anything right now, though.

5. Not a fan. While I understand it makes sense, it also makes the game significantly less difficult, and if it subtracts from the challenge of firemaking, I dont think its a great idea. The one way I could see this working if it was like a 6-hour long match that one could carry in inventory, and then use to try and build a fire, consuming it in the process. It would also need to have significantly nerfed fire building base chance to only really be feasible for survivors, skilled in the art of making fire. I think even the masters should fail it here and there. It is still very powerful tool to be used when conserving matches. Frankly, still bigger fan of just different fire building methods, like forgeable steel to be used for sparking.

6. I agree with the notion to add more craftable clothing into the game, but perhaps not in this manner. Wearing leather directly on skin is a very bad, baad idea. There is a reason why you dont see inner leather clothing. At best, that type of clothing has fur on the inside, but even that tends to be very skin-irritable. So this one doesnt really make sense - most leather clothing is outer layer for a reason, or its worn in such a way that the contact with skin is minimalized. 

As we have seen with timberwolves as a test, I believe its really interesting to have specific type of animal limited to certain region. Solution to "how to make craftable inner clothes feasible" could be in my opinion solved by adding a new type of animal, some sort of a bighorn sheep. There are some that live in British columbia but not close to Vancouver island, I think. Still, i reccon it would not be a far stretch for this type of sheep to live on an island like that. If these were limited to some regions (Timberwolf mountain, Ash canyon, Hushed river valley) it would force players to visit these regions just to hunt these. These types of sheep have a wool-like material that they shed once a year, but which helps them survive rigid low temperatures. I think it would be feasible for player to craft inner clothes from this woolen material. I think there are other ways to utilize leather in the game, though, besides clothing. There is a lot of potential for cool "accessory" type of items that could be worn to provide various bonuses besides being clothing. Something like armguards that would increase protection against animal attacks, quiver which could make notching arrows faster, gun bandolier which would make reloading and equipping rifle faster, and so many more.

But, I reccon all of this would be several survival updates worth of ideas so I dont hold out much hope for any of this. Would be great TLD mods I reccon. Its a shame cause the game would benefit from them greatly, especially the stagnant endgame in Survival right now.

7. As a rule of thumb, I am against suggesting animations. I like them, of course, but they are difficult when it comes to development. Id be happier if they added more animations to something more impactful then just checking the rifle. That said - I like the idea of just disabling the ammo count from the HUD. To find out how many  bullets are loaded, either load in more, or check inside of a backpack. Or better remember it and count your ammo! If this was a part of settings, it would be neat, and it would be entirely player´s decision to activate it or not.

8. I think it does decay pretty fast. Which is a shame. Even on Voyager I see it decay pretty fast overall. Its one of those types of items where I decide if its even worth repairing, or just tearing it up and making a new one after. At least the repair % is pretty high.

9. I like the idea, but not this implementation, to be honest. Falls from ropes usually just happen to inexperienced players. I havent fell from a rope since 2018 in-game. That said, I think broken limbs are an interesting possibility for a serious affliction. No need to complicate the game with crafting splints. Treatment option should just be 3 sticks and 2 bandages, and painkillers.  Dont think crawl would be neccesary to be animated, just very slow movement speed. Say -40% per broken leg. Once treated with splint, increases back by 20%. So with both broken legs, player moves at 20% speed, with both splints at 60%. Still a major setback. 5 days feel alright since thats the time it takes to heal broken ribs, too. I would steal the way broken ribs work further and say that the more broken limbs player has, the more time it takes for them all to heal, just like with broken ribs. In fact, broken ribs could be included in that count as well. With broken hands, of course one would not be able to use weapons, and the ability to do some tasks like breaking down things, using tools and defending in struggles woudl be limited too. Broken arm would be a scary thing in TLD. (Well, perhaps not using weapons at all might be a bit of a stretch, but the spread should be all over the place, making it impossible to aim at all, more like fire the gun in panic all over the place. Could work that way with revolver. 

Here is my take on how to implement broken limbs. - by any way sprained limbs happen, but making it a Tier 2 type of injury. Meaning that if the player has sprained limb, and then they take another damage that would cause spraining  that limb again, they would develop broken limb instead. This make sprains more serious in terms of pushing on with the injuries versus treating it while its still "minor". Adds very important survival decisions, whether to continue pushing on, treating it on spot, or finding shelter to heal through the injuries while they are minor. It would need to be balanced further, I would say when player has 1 sprain, 10% chance of developing that into a broken limb, 90% of additional sprain happening. With all 4 limbs sprained, I think there should still be a chance of broken limb not developing, but at much more precarious rate - say with 4 limbs sprained and another injury happening, 40% chance 1 broken limb affliction, 10% chance 2 broken limb afflictions, 50% base chance no more injuries happening. But this is just initial idea I had, might need to be rebalanced.

But it should definitely not be limited to just fall damage or bear attacks, as most players avoid both of those. Another way to do broken limbs in my opinion might be by just making them "worse versions" of sprains, but not treating through broken limbs and continuing with them could cause irreversible damage, sort of like frostbite, that even when healed would just decrease the utility in that type of limb. Frostbite is something everyone avoids like wildfire, if there was a potential that broken limbs lead to irreversible damage, it would make them very scary indeed.

10. Unnecesary. Sorry to be so blunt, but besides a personal "feels good" it serves no point, and would take way too many development resources to be made for the little it would bring. This is something I think would be best left for some community mod when mod support it out. 

11. What you are describing is not much of a DLC as much of an entirely new game, at most built on TLD mechanics. I dont think this is something likely, but if so, I dont think it would be fitting for the game. Perhaps some extensive community-made mod, but even that I dont think is very likely. Might be a cool TLD sequel, though... like TLD 2 going back to Great bear, but into the past. 

Those are my takes on these ideas. I like most of them, but some of them could use more balancing in my opinion, for reasons I stated. Happy to clarify further. Thanks for a lot of interesting ideas and feedback!

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Posted (edited)

@Mroz4k Thanks for commenting, sorry for such an exhaustive list. In all honesty I actually appreciate the bluntness. You made alot of great points so I'll do my best respond to some of them for the sake of furthering discussion.

1) To clarify, I was thinking that maybe being at starving for 24 hours or ravenous for 30 hours would work before starvation risk sets in. I must've missed typing that in the original post. I further go into some of my thinking in a prior response. What I'd really like to see is the system working off the average calories consumed and average calories expended stats, as the starvation risk bar should increase faster the more calories you are expending. 

2) I think the nutrition system would be good, maybe it could be saved for a sequel. Originally, I had the idea of benefits of different foods if balanced in diet. Balancing fat would increase warmth rating, but too must could cause you too fatigue slightly faster. Protein would increase stamina and carry weight, too much causing protein poisoning affliction. I later settled on just expanding that to the existing well fed buff, because I felt that it'd be too difficult to implement. I also don't want to see the caloric values changed. The nutrition system I propose I think would serve best as a jumping off point if the game wishes to expand on it. Vitamins could be implemented with afflictions like scurvy, giving teas more usefulness in diet. 

4) Have it so mitts come off automatically or manually when selecting weapons in the settings. That way if play want the tedium of having to remove mitts manually first they can have that, if not no big deal. Personally I think it could an interesting mechanic. Maybe add a special pair of military issue mittens that have trigger fingers to negate the issue entirely. 

5) I understand your concern. To clarify it'd work by collecting fire embers and be used to possibly start a single fire. It could be a skill unlocked at a higher fire-starting level, maybe 2 or 4. I definitely think more fire-starting options would be good. Maybe harvestable flint found throughout the game world that can throw sparks with the back of a knife or a bow drill fire could be added. 

6) I really love your ideas for bandoliers for rifle ammunition or an arm guard for bows. A quiver could be something crafted to also make notching arrows faster. As far as animals are concerned, I know mountain goats live on the coast of British Columbia and their wool has been used by the Coast Salish peoples for weaving. I think they'd make a great option for a map-specific animal (maybe good for Timberwolf Mountain or Ash canyon). Cougars are something I know alot of people want added. Vancouver Island has the highest concentration of cougar in North America. Again I'd like to see them been map specific animals. One of my ideas for cougars was for them to be nocturnal and them to stalk the player when out of line of sight in a way similar to the librarians in the Metro games. You'd have to stand your ground and keep them in sight to avoid attack. Cougars could operate off a morale meter similar to the way timberwolves work. They'd work good in places like Ash Canyon in my opinion. 

1557984_Mountain_Goat_Enchantments_Basin.thumb.jpg.233d66870842eca531c6c8bbd400bb49.jpg

9) Great points. I mainly meant falls sustained from "mountain-goating," or trying to descend from areas without using ropes. Is somewhat disagree with broken limbs happening from prolonged sprains, I think they should be rare occurances, but I like the consideration. 

10) I personally think it'd be a nice touch, but I understand the concern for resources being used for admittedly such a minor thing. It could be something for a sequel. 

11) This, hence why it was so low on the list. Despite it being my dream DLC for the game, I agree it'd probably work better as a complete prequel to the Long Dark. Maybe have it tie in with a story mode, where you could play as one of Jeremiah's ancestors.

Again thanks for the feedback. 

Edited by one_shurbbery
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On 3/6/2021 at 2:24 AM, one_shurbbery said:

1) To clarify, I was thinking that maybe being at starving for 24 hours or ravenous for 30 hours would work before starvation risk sets in. I must've missed typing that in the original post. I further go into some of my thinking in a prior response. What I'd really like to see is the system working off the average calories consumed and average calories expended stats, as the starvation risk bar should increase faster the more calories you are expending. 

I see, but thats basically already depicted in the game with the mechanics we already have - the hunger bar. There is a set to fill one´s stomach up to some max point on calories, and these calories are expended gradually as time goes by, and by doing various tasks along the way, too. If the intake is higher, it means the player has the stomach hunger bar filled all the time, if they take their time to eat regularly. If their expended calories are lower then the intake, it means their bar has fallen into the "starving" cathegory of the game, its red, they are taking condition damage for starving and (just like with Hypothermia) malnurishment should start building up. The only difference to your suggestion is by making it "average" with measurements overtime. Frankly I think it works just fine, the bar goes down fast enough on normal settings to force the player to eat regularly over the day to keep the hunger bar up, or if they starve, to refill it later on to regenerate some of that condition damage. I agree that starving right now poses no danger, just a discomfort of not having the well fed bonus.

Being ravenouse for 30 hours, by using the word "ravenous" would make sense in reality, as that is when the first onsetting effects of short term starvation would develop - sickness, hunger, pains and such. But it would not work from the gameplay perspective. Because by "starving" for 24 hours, the player took 24% condition damage, thats 1 fifth of total health. Every reasonable player would eat their fill at that point and slept to regenerate that damage. Therefore, nobody would actually go "starving" for 24 hours and the condition woudl be meaningnless. 

But I think I understand that you mean that they would be starving by average for 24 hours, aka over the course of several days, there were more often starving then fed. In theory this might work but it would be very overcomplicated for no benefit, from my opinion. The only way I can see this working is if "starving" was set not to 0 calorie level, but lets say to 30% of filled hunger bar. Meaning the player is actually starving whenever their hunger is below 30%, but they arent taking any damage for it, yet. But that just complicates things and forces players to eat more often to keep the bar above that level, and  the hunger bar is already pretty thin that it forces players to eat several times a day. 

I think I understand your point to how you would want to make it but I still believe it is just needlessly too complicated.

On 3/6/2021 at 2:24 AM, one_shurbbery said:

2) I think the nutrition system would be good, maybe it could be saved for a sequel. Originally, I had the idea of benefits of different foods if balanced in diet. Balancing fat would increase warmth rating, but too must could cause you too fatigue slightly faster.

I still really dont like the nutrition system, again it just makes things needlessly complicated, and needs constant care, it is the downfall of many survival games because they make things too simulated, it takes away from immersion. Now what you imply here in original idea, I think that is much better fit with the game! It could be a development of the well fed bonus, that by including different diet into the mix, the survivor would temporarily get extra small bonuses on top of the well fed bonus. Being Well fed indicates they are eating enough, and if different foods had different temporary effects, it would require the player to mix them into the diet relatively regularly if they wanted to benefit from them.  Its quite simple way to nudge the player into eating balanced diet without a need for extensive rework of the nutrition system.

On 3/6/2021 at 2:24 AM, one_shurbbery said:

4) Have it so mitts come off automatically or manually when selecting weapons in the settings. That way if play want the tedium of having to remove mitts manually first they can have that, if not no big deal. Personally I think it could an interesting mechanic. Maybe add a special pair of military issue mittens that have trigger fingers to negate the issue entirely.

Sides the idea of the military mittens I really like that point. If this werent difficult to program in and were entirely up to the player´s choice to include or exclude from the game as a mechanic, that would be ideal. Im not a big fan in general of adding special items to combat specific mechanics, unless it makes sense and adds something into the balance. It would feel forced.
 

On 3/6/2021 at 2:24 AM, one_shurbbery said:

5) I understand your concern. To clarify it'd work by collecting fire embers and be used to possibly start a single fire. It could be a skill unlocked at a higher fire-starting level, maybe 2 or 4. I definitely think more fire-starting options would be good. Maybe harvestable flint found throughout the game world that can throw sparks with the back of a knife or a bow drill fire could be added. 

Agreed. I think the game could benefit from them, too. Definitely more firestarting options could also make matches more rare, making them more valueble. Right now they are only really valuable early on, later on one has enough of them to even burn them needlessly here and there if they are mindful to be conservative about starting fires. I think the fire bundles being a skill that opens at firestaring level 3 is a pretty good idea - it would give tinder some meaning, being an item neccesary to craft them, and if they simply were a "time-based match" that can be used to start a fire later on, I think thats a terrific idea that would work well with the game. As long as they cant be used to start torches, and were consumed if the starting of a fire wasnt succesful. As for the harvestable flint - seen that idea around in the past. What I am a bigger fan of is a forgeable firestriker. Not a ferro-rod that one can find in the game right now, but a proper piece of steel that can be scraped to create sparks. As a means of fire it would be less likely to suceed then matches, but would provide an option to start fire indoors and in windless enviroments (so outdoor caves) regardless of weather outside, or even during nighttime.

It is basically fire striker and flint used together, but for the sake of not complicating it, I think normal stone might be used, too. As long as the steel piece is forged first - that would add an extra layer of challenge to it in Survival, especially in Interloper, where it would be very useful. Something like what can be seen on this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_striker

Never was a big fan of bow drill fires in the freezing temp settings but they were used by the natives, so I guess it could work. But as someone who tried it for real in the past in very forgiving summer temperatures, it is not easy to make fire this way. But if it were properly balanced, it could benefit the game. Once again, it would be something up to player to decide if they wanna make a use of it or not in their game. 

On 3/6/2021 at 2:24 AM, one_shurbbery said:

Cougars are something I know alot of people want added.

Funny you mentioned those. They are an animal that was with moose on the official Roadmaps in the past. I know the roadmaps arent really official source of information anymore, but many of the things there were added into the game much later on, it is still something of a mindset of Hinterland that I would assume. I think Cougars, being a deadly predator which would be very quiet, would provide a terrifying experience to the game as a new type of animal. Problem I see here is how their behaviour would happen. However, if they were map specific to the same areas where the goats would be found, they would provide yet another kind of risk to exploring these regions, thus giving more rarity to the special items found in these remote regions, and making the hunting of these sheep more risky. 

It would be perfect synergy to risk and benefit that would enrich The long dark a lot. As for the sheep - thats a great idea! I really dont have much knowledge to animal life in the respective Canada regions, but I know enough to know that there are animals there, living wildly, that has fur/woolen coal that could be used for weaving, like you mentioned. Thus giving us the option to craft undergarments of high quality at risk of hunting them.

One thing to remember about cougars - such as most feline predators (save lions), they are loners. They would not coordinate their attacks. Also, unlike wolves, they are not stalking-king of predator in a sense that they dont stalk and run down their prey. They are ambush predators. Nocturnal - now that is an interesting concept, but not sure how well it fits the game. In TLD, one does not have much reason to stay outside during night unless traveling. The encounter rate would be lower for that reason. I think it would be fine if they were encountered all throughout the game, but it was neccesary to spot them and keep them in sight - with them, being able to ambush unwary players and being very silent in their approach. Just thinking that makes my skin crawl. Such a predator would be apex in The Long dark. 

On 3/6/2021 at 2:24 AM, one_shurbbery said:

6) I really love your ideas for bandoliers for rifle ammunition or an arm guard for bows. A quiver could be something crafted to also make notching arrows faster.

Dont see much point to armguards for bow specifically, what I mostly had in mind are some type of hardened leather bracers to reinforce arms against the animal attacks such as bites. Nothing as beefy as the armguards used to train dogs in taking down of suspects for the police work, but on the same principle. Wolves that are attacking out of offensive or exploratory reasons dont go for arteries - they try to bite at hands, legs, the extremedies. So, wearing a set of hardened protective equipments on arms and maybe even legs actually makes the bites less damaging during what would be the general wolf struggle in The long dark. Unless bow injuries were added into the game as a means of inexperienced archers hurting their wrist by taking bow shots. But those would at most require painkillers to treat the pain so I dont think they are neccesary. :) 

But yea, accesories that would boost the use of a specific weapon I think might be very nice in the game. Not even just bandoliers - just crafting something as simple as rifle strap so that rifle can be worn on a shoulder, makes it easier to grab the rifle into a firing stance from relaxed stance. And carrying it on a strap on shoulder rather then strapped to a backpack would also maybe make it appear lighter (not in reality, but I can see it giving slight 0.5 kg decrease to weight, for only one rifle in inventory).
 

Just some more thoughts on the topic.

 

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On 3/1/2021 at 8:04 PM, one_shurbbery said:

rifle having an animation where the bolt is partially opened to check if it's loaded;


hell, it’s a Lee Enfield. Instead of just checking the chamber, the player could remove the magazine and press down on the rounds to “estimate” how much more room there is.( for eight rounds loaded, the character says “I could probably fit two more in...”)

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On 3/8/2021 at 8:20 AM, Mroz4k said:

One thing to remember about cougars - such as most feline predators (save lions), they are loners. They would not coordinate their attacks. Also, unlike wolves, they are not stalking-king of predator in a sense that they dont stalk and run down their prey. They are ambush predators. Nocturnal - now that is an interesting concept, but not sure how well it fits the game. In TLD, one does not have much reason to stay outside during night unless traveling. The encounter rate would be lower for that reason. I think it would be fine if they were encountered all throughout the game, but it was neccesary to spot them and keep them in sight - with them, being able to ambush unwary players and being very silent in their approach. Just thinking that makes my skin crawl. Such a predator would be apex in The Long dark. 

Reminds me of this video

My only concern about cougars are them becoming game ruiners or just reskins of wolves. If they just came out of nowhere and attacked the player, it'd piss of alot of people lol. Hence why I think they should give some audible warning (a hiss or a scream) and attack based on line of sight. They would also have a morale system similar to timberwolves. Imagine going through an area like ash canyon at night and you hear this blood-curling scream, then frantically look all around and then finally see just a pair of glowing eyes coming towards you. It then tries to circle you so it can attack from behind, you have to stand your ground and keep your eyes locked on it to prevent the attack. Marine flares would also be useful.

I remember seeing on Alone, during one of the the seasons that take place on Vancouver Island if I'm not mistaken, one of the contestants had sewn "eyes" onto the back of his hat in a effort to prevent cougars from ambushing him. Maybe if cougars are added into the game there could be a special wool toque with eyes sewn onto the back that decreases cougar morale. 

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Maybe if cougars are added you could tell you´re in a dangerous area because of claw markings in trees (similar to the moose marks we currently have), so you better watch out or get out from that area ASAP.

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1 hour ago, Istvan82 said:

Maybe if cougars are added you could tell you´re in a dangerous area because of claw markings in trees (similar to the moose marks we currently have), so you better watch out or get out from that area ASAP.

That's actually a very good idea :)

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