So, lantern fuel... pretty useful, not easy to make. How would ya all feel about a new way to make lantern fuel?


Alternative ways to make lantern fuel  

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Title says it all. Lantern fuel and alternative ways to make it in the game. I have (had) an idea for how to do it for a long time. I usually refresh the topic to get fresh perspective on it. But, before I do that, I wanna find out if there even is a point. So, how would you all feel about an alternative way to produce lantern fuel? In general, without going into specifics just yet. 

I think that if the game had more lantern fuel, it would benefit the game a lot. It is very useful resource early in the game, and loses its immidiate use later on, by the time it has been looted out, so I think most people use it sparingly. And in the late game, many people end up fishing a lot of fish just to cook them for lantern fuel, and dont actually utilize the food, because they have stockpiles of it from different sources. I think if there were alternatives to get more lantern fuel, people who end up using lanterns more often, which is a good thing. I assume most people only really use them stationarily - like leaving them in caves to help cross them, instead of carrying it around due to its weight. Maybe Im wrong in assuming that.

Any and all insight into this topic would be greatly appreciated. Please do fill out the poll as well. If there is something that is not mentioned in the polls, feel free to point it out in the comments below.

 

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The overarching question, I think, brings with it a lot to unpack.
Ultimately, I'd say depending on how (and to what degree) this was done could either be an interesting addition... or undermine many other gameplay aspects that on the surface appear only tangentially related.

I can't speak to how the idea may (or may not) integrate well the other game elements without gaining some idea of the mechanisms you would be proposing.  So, for now... I suppose I'll posit on some of the many ways that the current mechanic affects the game overall, and how adding another alternative method for procuring Lantern Fuel could potentially negatively affect that.

Personally, I do really like the balance that Hinterland has already achieved.  When I talk about balance in this context, I'm going far beyond it's primary purpose (i.e. using it in lanterns to light up dark places).

You mention in the title that it's not easy to make.  Well... yes and no.  I think this first part is already pretty subjective and largely dependent on personal playstyle (and the game difficulty the player chooses to engage in).  I'll get more into this part in a little bit. :)

With regard to scarcity, I think this is a very good thing.  Being scarce or requiring the expenditure of effort and other resources (including time), makes lantern fuel valuable.  Being seen as valuable, this encourages the player to think more strategically about how they ration and use it.  The player would have to decide whether the task they want to use it for is really worth the cost, or if they could find a better/more efficient ways to get that particular thing done.  I think that adding more methods for getting larger volumes of lantern fuel (possibly more easily) would likely undermine this aspect of strategic gameplay.

As an example: It's kind of like when I find my first bits of coal in the world... at first I'd only use maybe one piece when it was really crucial for the warmth (where if I don't get warm quick, my survivor may die).  However later on, when I can get to a coal mine reasonably regularly... suddenly I'm burning up coal just because it's handy, abundant, and I didn't feel like going out that day to pick up sticks or break down branches.  My point here is, once coal was more accessible... it became more disposable.  I think the same would be true of Lantern Fuel.  When it becomes too abundant, the player likely no longer cares about it as a precious resource.  In that event... I think this could be a detriment to the game.

With regard to it being not easy to make, I'd posit that currently it's not too terribly difficult to gather up a healthy supply.  Now, granted I'm just speaking from my experiences and my particular playstyle over the years (playing on difficulties ranging from Voyager to Interloper).  In most circumstances, I find that once I can incorporate fishing into my regular food foraging routine, I always end up accumulating more lantern fuel than I use.  On harder difficulties it's true that catching fish and finding bottles/jerry cans of lantern fuel are harder to come by... but I would argue that that's kind of the point of it being a harder difficulty (to face the challenge of those resources being even more scarce).  Here again, I'd tend to think that adding more methods for getting larger volumes of lantern fuel (possibly more easily) would undermine that aspect of playing on an increased difficulty (where resources are supposed to be harder to come by).

On to animals (I'd suggest that there is a designed element of balance here as well).
Currently all the animals in the game that we can "hunt" serve at least two main purposes.  For the rabbits, deer, wolves, bears, and moose; there is food and also clothing.  I like the decision by Hinterland to dedicate fish as a source of lantern fuel, because this gives fish their second major purpose (and a lot of value because of it).  Here also, I'd tend to think that adding more methods for getting larger volumes of lantern fuel (possibly more easily), I think would be a detriment to the game.

After all, if the player can get food, clothing, and lantern fuel (from say, rendering other animal fats)... I think that would ultimately make fishing very extraneous.  Dipping over into the development side of things for just a minute... if a thing serves no necessary purpose to the game world, why keep or include it in the first place?

With the mechanics as they are now... fishing is (for all intents and purposes) a more necessary activity.  That is unless the player wants to trust in luck to find more lantern fuel while beachcombing.  ***(or never do anything in the dark... I acknowledge that it's perfectly possible for a player to choose to live without using any artificial light sources whatsoever if they plan and play carefully enough)***


:coffee::fire::coffee:
This doesn't cover all my thoughts on lantern fuel... but it should do for now.  :)

I guess the short version of what I am saying is that there is already a very purposeful balance that Hinterland has crafted here, and it would be easy for ideas of this kind to tip that balance.  It would also impact many other aspects of gameplay that I currently really love about this game.

Now again, as I mentioned at the start... depending on the mechanism proposed and the degree to which it's integrated (or even re-balanced to keep what I'd say are valuable gameplay elements intact); I think that something like this could either be an interesting addition, or possibly very detrimental to a game I enjoy very much.  My point being there is a lot of thought that would have to go into something like this, because in a game of interconnected systems and elements... no one thing in it exists in a vacuum.

Edited by ManicManiac
Corrected some typos I found.
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6 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Title says it all. Lantern fuel and alternative ways to make it in the game. I have (had) an idea for how to do it for a long time. I usually refresh the topic to get fresh perspective on it. But, before I do that, I wanna find out if there even is a point. So, how would you all feel about an alternative way to produce lantern fuel? In general, without going into specifics just yet. 

I think that if the game had more lantern fuel, it would benefit the game a lot. It is very useful resource early in the game, and loses its immidiate use later on, by the time it has been looted out, so I think most people use it sparingly. And in the late game, many people end up fishing a lot of fish just to cook them for lantern fuel, and dont actually utilize the food, because they have stockpiles of it from different sources. I think if there were alternatives to get more lantern fuel, people who end up using lanterns more often, which is a good thing. I assume most people only really use them stationarily - like leaving them in caves to help cross them, instead of carrying it around due to its weight. Maybe Im wrong in assuming that.

Any and all insight into this topic would be greatly appreciated. Please do fill out the poll as well. If there is something that is not mentioned in the polls, feel free to point it out in the comments below.

 

the limited and rather scarce availability of fuel and the rapid burning rate of the lantern, not to mention the added weight does in my opinion severely detracts from daily regular usage under most gameplay conditions.  I do like the light it produces especially when navigating caves and tunnels and when looting dark spaces in buildings etc, but comparatively the torch does all that in addition to being used as a "weapon" to scare off wolves where as the lantern just helps to point out your location when you're trudging thru the forest.  no throwing a lit lantern at a wolf and if you get jumped whilst carrying it, you have to set it down before you can begin to fight back during the wolf struggle process.  

Given the limited burn time of a single tank of fuel, like one hour in game, is a turn off itself as producing a liter of fuel via fishing can take something like upto 20 hours in game between the fishing time required and subsequent cooking time to produced fuel oil.  and btw, if you arent using a cooking pot when cooking fish, you actual produce about 25%  less fuel oil in the process which further extends the time frame required to produce the one liter of fuel oil required to fully fuel just one lamp.  Yeah,  the lamp is as imbalanced as it possible could be compared to the IRL specs you'd get just about on any cheap fuel oil lamp you might find readily available for purchase. 

So Hell Ya, I'd love an additional source for lamp fuel oil production if one was gonna made available.

 

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It's a risky maneuver. Although i like the idea of having more options available, if it's not carefully balanced with the overall array of mechanics and resource gathering methods, it could be the coup de grace on the fishing activity, as OP mentioned about late game fishing only for fuel.

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I'm thinking of tallow candels...

One might get tallow from Moose and Bear. Something not so easy to hunt. After that it must be melted and maybe cast into used cans with a peice of cloth as a snuff. And you couldn't move them once they are lit. Could be used on craftin tables or for reading indoors...

Edited by Niskavuori
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19 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

Given the limited burn time of a single tank of fuel, like one hour in game, is a turn off

The timescale for this game 12:1 (for every minute of real time... 12 minutes passes in game-time).
A full storm lantern will burn and provide light for 4 game-hours (20 minutes of real time)


:coffee::fire::coffee:
The burn duration of a storm lantern is not as short as folks seem to perceive it to be.

Edited by ManicManiac
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2 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

The timescale for this game 12:1 (for every minute of real time... 12 minutes passes in game-time).
A full storm lantern will burn and provide light for 4 game-hours (20 minutes of real time)


:coffee::fire::coffee:
The burn duration of a storm lantern is not as short as folks seem to perceive it to be.

tomatoes tomotoes, potatoes potatos

perception is real dont you know

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I am squatting in a house with a huge propane tank out back. Why can't I run it? I doubt it is empty, given that aurora struck in the middle of winter and folks possibly panicking to get off the island. By the looks of cars stranded, people were ready to leave quick.

I think that tank should have some good amount of propane left! Imagine running fireplace for weeks(or not. I dont have fireplace or propane tanks that size at my house) 🔥

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I used to hunt deer and eat them. Then I started trapping rabbit and eat them too. Then I got too many pelts and hide, so I killed a bear and made a bed. His meat wasn't tasty. I decided to catch me fish and eat it. As a bonus, I got lantern fuel. This gave me an idea:

I will tweak my diet. I now catch many fish and harvest lantern fuel.  It isn't hard to get enough lantern fuel fuel to be used often. Just today I caught a 12 lb fish! It was an 8 lb. Steak and cant imagine how many gallons of lantern fuel, but I'd imagine a lot!

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10 hours ago, Niskavuori said:

I'm thinking of tallow candels...

One might get tallow from Moose and Bear. Something not so easy to hunt. After that it must be melted and maybe cast into used cans with a peice of cloth as a snuff. And you couldn't move them once they are lit. Could be used on craftin tables or for reading indoors...

Interesting idea, as the choice of using the lantern to craft/read/repair when it's too dark never seems worth it to me.

I have always felt like playing around the "it's too dark to x" is a bit finicky, having to go outside to maybe sneak in an hour of f.ex.  reading. It's hard to tell how dark is too dark sometimes, both in and outdoors. 

The only way using a candle is worth it, as I can see, is to give it way longer burn time than the lantern. Unless you had a fire going, it would cost a whole match for what could be just a couple of extra hours of x activity (auroras light up in/outdoors, and if the sky clears up it's never too dark outside, even at night). However a really long burn time would kind of make it op as a fire starter. 

Now, how about having a built-in lantern in some (very few, hard to get to) crafting tables? It could run on some special fuel that lasted a good while, and worked only on such stationary lanterns. (maybe like those propane tanks Stinky socks is talking about).  Could be useful for crafting something like the bearskin bedroll in one go, or to blast through lots of skillbooks. 

In general though, I think that the DARKness in the long DARK is an integral part of the game, and should be unavoidable. I like that the player has quite limited control over lightsources. The lantern is both mobile and weatherresistant, so I don't think it needs more abundant fuel. 

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12 hours ago, Niskavuori said:

I'm thinking of tallow candels...

One might get tallow from Moose and Bear. Something not so easy to hunt. After that it must be melted and maybe cast into used cans with a peice of cloth as a snuff. And you couldn't move them once they are lit. Could be used on craftin tables or for reading indoors...

I have to agree with this.

I enjoy playing this game because of it's roots in realism. With that in mind, I ask "if it was me, what would I do"? Spend a lot of time making latern fuel, or figure out a way to make candles or a type of grease lamp, or colonial style rushlight. I'd conserve my lantern fuel for caves (or use torches) and make some kind of small lighting device for wherever you are camping/staying put. Candles, grease lamp, or rushlight can all be made from rendered fat a heck of a lot easier than trying to make lantern fuel, if it is even possible.

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As someone who disables fishing in their custom games because it's too OP I would like an alternative way to get lantern fuel. I almost never use the lantern because, well, I can't make fuel for it.

 

edit---------

Also if the lantern lasted longer then it might be possible to make the nights darker. Which would be nice because right now inside is black as pitch while outside midnight is barely darker than mid-day. I wish there were some consistency.

Edited by odizzido
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4 hours ago, Stinky socks said:

I am squatting in a house with a huge propane tank out back. Why can't I run it? I doubt it is empty, given that aurora struck in the middle of winter and folks possibly panicking to get off the island. By the looks of cars stranded, people were ready to leave quick.

I think that tank should have some good amount of propane left! Imagine running fireplace for weeks(or not. I dont have fireplace or propane tanks that size at my house) 🔥

those tanks had long run dry in most cases long before the aurora event.  as the world economy further collapsed and deliveries of goods and supplies, including fuel became more interrupted, many people had already abandoned their homes and workplaces.   However, I agree you'd think that given all those propane bottles on the entire island, there would have to a few that still contained fuel.  right?

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I like the idea of the fuel simply lasting longer. I would be more tempted to store fuel and use the lantern if it was a more efficient light source. Right now I personally make very little use of the lantern because the fuel burns up so quickly.

Although game balance/gameplay is not always about realism, it seems like a full lantern lasting for 6-8 hours would be more realistic too.

Of course it would allow nighttime repairing/mending/crafting/reading, so that would have to weighed, but I suppose that could also allow for some interesting choices? Do I chug this coffee and burn up some lantern fuel, or just wait till morning? Again only speaking for myself, right now I would never make that choice. For me, it’s just not worth the fuel. :lantern:

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1 minute ago, Sherlock Holmes 18 said:

There's a separate place for these, but it's good information. 

Thanks 

@Sherlock Holmes 18, I know, I posted it there... 😄çok teşekkür ederim

But to be serious about the issue here, I think making lantern fuel is not that hard in game. You need a pot and a nice fat Coho salmon or Small mouth bass... It's the wolves and THAT bear you need to get rid of first near Fishing village...

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Touching back on the Candles again..... given how it raises the question of ignition sources (matches, etc), would this also extend the discussion into less expensive ways to light one?

I'm having a lot of back an forth about how the fit candles into the system, because the lantern too broadly covers the kind of use cases for a candle, and doesn't expend fire starting tools to use. On the other end of the spectrum you have torches, which are basically candles made out of campfires. Because of this, candles are too niche to be both distinct AND useful from the other light sources.

This segues into the next question of "what are the benefits of an indoor light source, but no heat?". I had considered the possibility of an indoor version of the Storm lamp, making it more fuel efficient, but vulnerable to wind (limiting its outdoor use). But the only real use case I can think of is working overnight on repairs or crafting. But most places that have crafting benches also have fire pits nearby. The exception seems to be the mines, which (RL historically) have been too dangerous to have open flames in.

With all of that in consideration, if there was to be new type of light source to fill in that tiny gap.... it would probably be a new tier of crafted torch that has a longer life span then a normal torch.

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On 2/24/2021 at 4:37 AM, Niskavuori said:

It's the wolves and THAT bear you need to get rid of first near Fishing village...

That's where I fish too after moving from Jackrabbit island! The easiest pain free way to get rid of the wolf is to drop bait and back away. He picks up bait and doesn't seem to mind you at all afterwards! I want as far as trying to chase him, but he didn't pay attention! I 💘 wolves!

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Woah. I must say, I did not expect so much traction on this topic but I am so glad it has! I think this is often overlooked part of the game that deserves its place in a spotlight (pun intended)  every once in a while. 

Thank you also for suggesting your own ideas on how you would solve it. It puts it further to what I hoped for with this thread.

First of all - the specific idea I had in mind was birch bark oil. Using a method very similar to charring cloth to make charcloth, one can charr birch bark in a similar fashion, this produces black oily liquid which can then be used as a lantern fuel, and has been used in lanterns by homesteaders as a substitude for traditional kerosene. 

You can find my old idea post in this topic, it has a YouTube video that shows its preparation.


Now, keeping in mind, I would like to rework my whole idea altogether, using some of your feedback.

On 2/22/2021 at 10:21 PM, Sherlock Holmes 18 said:

So, how are we going to do it? 

Can we melt and use animal fat?

Not the idea I had in mind, but also a possibility! I think it is feasible that at some point, animal fat is going to be harvestable from carcasses. If there was a way to process it into lantern fuel at a reasonably balanced rate, I dont see a problem with it.

On 2/23/2021 at 12:50 AM, ManicManiac said:

With regard to scarcity, I think this is a very good thing.  Being scarce or requiring the expenditure of effort and other resources (including time), makes lantern fuel valuable.  Being seen as valuable, this encourages the player to think more strategically about how they ration and use it.

Yes! Problem is, it is not exactly rare, in fact, one can find substantial amounts of it placed around the world as is. Even on more difficult gametypes. And its lack of scarcity makes sense cause it is a lightsource... only problem with that is that it can also be used as an accelerant. That kind of makes the whole idea of using it for its primary use (lantern fuel) kinda useless compared to its other use early in-game, with META in mind. That is why I think it should be rebalanced to a point where finding it in the first place more rarely, but being able to make it more easily, would then shift the perceived use of the lantern fuel from accelerant to lantern fuel. Because, early on into the game, accelerant use is more useful, but with increase to firestarting skill the use of it becomes less relevant and the remaining lantern fuel is more useful in the lanterns. I would cut down on spawnrate of lantern fuel by 50% baseline and make the gasoline canisters only very small amounts of lantern fuel most of the time. Finding a 1,5l of lantern fuel in gas canister should be an unspoken rarity, to a comparison of finding a bedroll on Interloper. But canisters should not be that rare so they can be later used to fill up with lantern fuel for storing it once it becomes more commonly used.

On 2/23/2021 at 12:50 AM, ManicManiac said:

As an example: It's kind of like when I find my first bits of coal in the world... at first I'd only use maybe one piece when it was really crucial for the warmth (where if I don't get warm quick, my survivor may die).  However later on, when I can get to a coal mine reasonably regularly... suddenly I'm burning up coal just because it's handy, abundant, and I didn't feel like going out that day to pick up sticks or break down branches.  My point here is, once coal was more accessible... it became more disposable.  I think the same would be true of Lantern Fuel.  When it becomes too abundant, the player likely no longer cares about it as a precious resource.  In that event... I think this could be a detriment to the game.

I fully agree with you there, with everything but the conclusion this could be a detriment to the game. I think there is something more to consider. But your argument with coal perfectly sums up how I view lantern fuel too. Early on, its an invaluable boost to fire starting as accelerant. Later on, once skill is up, its use becomes more focused on a light source. I think it would be best if the game was designed around the ability to make more lantern fuel through player effort rather then by finding it, keeping in mind its two uses - as accelerant and as fuel for lanterns.

I think what is crucial to consider here is when it should be precious. Should it be precious early into the game, or into the late game? Or al through. Right now, I see it as more of a precious late game, and very abundant early on. I believe it should be reversed. But, that may just be my opinion. However, given the abundance of lanterns, I cant shake the feeling they were intended to be used as lightsource more often then they are.

On 2/23/2021 at 11:36 PM, ManicManiac said:

The burn duration of a storm lantern is not as short as folks seem to perceive it to be.

I noticed that too. You are correct that the full lantern burntime is not as short as people believe it to be. I think what contributes to that feeling is how the bars show the lantern fuel reserves. Burning it in real-time, it appears to go down pretty fast, whereas in game, it actually lasts for ingame hours. 

On 2/23/2021 at 12:50 AM, ManicManiac said:

On to animals (I'd suggest that there is a designed element of balance here as well).
Currently all the animals in the game that we can "hunt" serve at least two main purposes.  For the rabbits, deer, wolves, bears, and moose; there is food and also clothing.  I like the decision by Hinterland to dedicate fish as a source of lantern fuel, because this gives fish their second major purpose (and a lot of value because of it).  Here also, I'd tend to think that adding more methods for getting larger volumes of lantern fuel (possibly more easily), I think would be a detriment to the game.

This strikes true, and it is very insightful way to look at it. I never considered it from this angle - and I see how this makes sense, that fish have a second major purpose to provide lantern fuel. But I did presume how adding more lantern fuel would affect fishing - hence the poll. As we can see, by the time Im writing this response, the 3rd question in a poll with regards to fishing has 14 responders. Out of 14 responders, only one would stop fishing, (and one does not fish to begin with). 10 players would continue fishing for the sake of it. This shows perfectly the player choice to continue fishing is there. And 14 responders for these forums is a pretty decent sample base. Course lets hope it increases even further. I know this is something you did not see by the time you made a comment, but I want to point to it now since we got all that nice feedback from others. Still, I see your point and fully agree.

One way to actually "balance" this would be simply to have fish produce more lantern fuel to begin with. I dont think this would be a bad idea. Once again, fishing is probably not something most people do right off the get-go. It gets pretty expensive on firewood before one has decent enough clothes to spend several hours outside, fishing. It tends to be mid-to-late gameplay activity for the most part and as such, the lantern fuel yield is quite low compared to how potentionally useful but overly rare this resource is mid-to-late game. Considering we have fishing in the game as a skill, perhaps the amount of fishing skill would contribute to how much lantern fuel one gets from  the fish? Id rather this was part of fishing skill to cooking skill because it rewards better fishermen with more of that valueable resource. This alone could possibly help shift the balance with lantern fuel on its own.

On 2/23/2021 at 3:58 AM, piddy3825 said:

The limited and rather scarce availability of fuel and the rapid burning rate of the lantern, not to mention the added weight does in my opinion severely detracts from daily regular usage under most gameplay conditions.  I do like the light it produces especially when navigating caves and tunnels and when looting dark spaces in buildings etc, but comparatively the torch does all that in addition to being used as a "weapon" to scare off wolves where as the lantern just helps to point out your location when you're trudging thru the forest.  no throwing a lit lantern at a wolf and if you get jumped whilst carrying it, you have to set it down before you can begin to fight back during the wolf struggle process. 

I agree with you on all the points. I do think the time light stays on lantern is actually quite good, it still holds true that the comparison between the creation and usefulness of the lantern fuel as light source compared to other means is just not that great. One could argue that lighting a torch takes away matches - but unless this is Loper, matches are plentiful anyway, and if one is very insistent, its possible to make campfire with the mag glass then take the torches from there. If weather is good. 

On 2/24/2021 at 6:56 AM, The Ravages of Time said:

I like the idea of the fuel simply lasting longer. I would be more tempted to store fuel and use the lantern if it was a more efficient light source. Right now I personally make very little use of the lantern because the fuel burns up so quickly.

Although game balance/gameplay is not always about realism, it seems like a full lantern lasting for 6-8 hours would be more realistic too.

Of course it would allow nighttime repairing/mending/crafting/reading, so that would have to weighed, but I suppose that could also allow for some interesting choices? Do I chug this coffee and burn up some lantern fuel, or just wait till morning? Again only speaking for myself, right now I would never make that choice. For me, it’s just not worth the fuel. :lantern:

That would be one solution too, but I dont think it would be a good one. This would just increase the value of the resource in general. But, presuming that one can find sufficient amounts of lantern fuel in the game, it increases its usefulness early on, as opposed to late game when it becomes more of a resource of convinience. I think you would be more inclined to make that choice if you knew that you did not have to go on several days worth of fishing trips to replace the fuel afterwards. If it simply lasted longer, then you would use it, benefit from it early, but then have less lantern fuel later on which would discourage you from wasting it. It doesnt sound very balanced.

On 2/24/2021 at 4:27 AM, odizzido said:

Also if the lantern lasted longer then it might be possible to make the nights darker. Which would be nice because right now inside is black as pitch while outside midnight is barely darker than mid-day. I wish there were some consistency.

I find that to wary based on a weather. On a clear night, ye, I would say walking through the night is pretty easy, one can see very clearly. But during a cloudy night, I find the forests to become very dark and difficult to navigate without a lightsource. I quite like that. Here is a rare example of when using lantern with a fuel is worth it - if the skies at night are cloudy and wind blows to put out torches, lanterns are one of only two viable light sources left for player to use. The other being a normal flare (marine flares go out so fast they are really not worth considering). I think this part of the game is pretty fine as is. But that is just my opinion.

On 2/22/2021 at 11:43 PM, Stinky socks said:

It might be more feasible for Will and Astrid to make candles out fat/wax than create renewable fuel🕯

Candles are a popular topic, I personally dont have a problem with them, they actually once existed on an official Hinterland roadmap to planned content updates. Now we know by now that some of those ideas were discontinued, so this doesnt mean they will make it into the game, but I think its likely given how popular they are. I think it might be a good addition if they end up being properly balanced out.

On the topic of propane-butane tanks: We dont have gas-powered equipment in the game, at least not one that would work. I always thought the heat plates should work for cooking indoors when Aurora is out, as a neat little detail. Dont think its likely to ever be a thing. I dont think it would be a bad idea to have portable propane-butane heatplate as a piece of gear. Its common for campers. It would be a neat heatsource and a way to heat up drinks on the move, without a need to setup a campfire.

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