Using map to navigate in survival

[Stinky socks]

My respect to you, @peteloud, those look fantastic! 

[ManicManiac]

8 hours ago, peteloud said:

I often read of complaints about the detail and accuracy of the charcoal maps.  I think that people are underestimating the difficulty in making maps. 

Right on... I agree with you 100%.

To add to what you've said:
Not only are these charcoal maps handmade (in which case our survivor clearly has artistic talent and training ), they're only meant to give a rough idea of prominent features in relation to each other (a rough General Reference map)... and not full-on detailed topographical maps.

Edited February 26, 2021 by ManicManiac

[hozz1235]

Sometimes.  I know the zones well enough to not use the map, but I do use it to mark the areas I've explored.

[Kranium]

I only use the charcoal maps on a first visit to an area, up to the point where I've mapped everything. After that, I don't need them, really. The other reason is for a badge.

 

The charcoal maps are very unrealistic, I can't suspend belief on that one. I've made my own rough maps when backpacking that are a million times better than these. And do you know what any licensed pilot is exceedingly good at? Reading maps. Especially bush pilots. A bush pilot who isn't a map expert doesn't exist. (2 of my close friends are bush pilots, here in BC) Will would never ever make vague non-top-down maps like these. (I can forgive Astrid though)

[Cranky]

The vague details of the mapping don’t bother me in the least. I find the mapping generally useful in the beginning but kind of useless once I’ve become familiar with the region. Now a days The only reason I map a familiar region is when I’m looking for bow/arrow woods. I just wish we could make notes on the map itself, I would find that incredibly useful. 

[Mroz4k]

I use the charcoal maps rarely. I sometimes look up the fandom maps online when I want to refresh something from my mind but very rarely, I have extensive map knowledge from playing the game to know the landmarks just by reading the terrain and thinking the elevation of certain regions. If I do get lost, I look for a landmark to find where I am, and if the weather makes it impossible, I find a shelter and wait for a better weather to come. Or I follow the general rules of survival - go downhill, find a river, follow the river. River in itself is a landmark. Doesnt work 100% since the game does not always have rivers leading towards civilization, but going downhill and finding a river is enough to determine location usually.

I do use charcoal to map new regions. The revealed charcoal map of a new region Im not familiar with gives me a rough idea of how the terrain Im exploring looks, and is usually enough for me to learn the map to add it to my map knowledge. I have very good sense for navigation, though. I reccon others often struggle with what I can do with ease. Many times i dont even use GPS after reading a map, I can force my way to the intended destination without the need for it.

I think the map was not really intended in the game for navigation as much as it was intended to be used to mark down certain resources. Hence why you can re-use charcoal later on on a map where you have already been and mapped it, to refresh the locations of logs and carcasses around that location. I often use charcoal to mark down locations of natural resources like cattails, saplings and such - to know where they are and to know I can come for them later. I can highly reccomend to use map in this way - re-using charcoal to mark down change in logs and such to know where to go for later on.

I also found it helpful to use spray paint as a way to mark out bear and moose territories on the map. These are different in each map but once found, they are persistent for that one game, unlike wolf spawns which change in time. (well, moose changes too, but only between a determined locations, which can be marked down). So I use Danger symbol to mark the location of bear cave, and then in some circle around the location to mark out the bear territory where it walks often. I also place the marks on visible locations to serve as another visual warning. For moose, I usually spray "hunting area" symbols on the trees with moose markings, from the outside of the territory, once again to make them visible.

[Gwynren]

I replied 'yes', but I meant the in-game charcoal map you unlock yourself, which I generally really like and find super useful. Plus, I'm going for Faithful Cartographer so I'm charcoal mapping errryything in my current survival save. Not sure I would be using the map much once I've learned the locations - I find that once I'm revisiting an area I already know decently well, I just use landmarks.

I have only used a community map on a single instance when I got really confused about a particular aspect of a place I was re-visiting in Ash Canyon. Otherwise, I treat community maps as spoilers!

[Sherri]

On 2/25/2021 at 5:10 AM, peteloud said:

The game is meant to be the survival challenge of an unequipped crashed pilot in unknown hostile territory.  He has no maps, no warm clothes, no food or equipment.  If you go to fandom to get copies of, or just look at, the maps of the regions you change the nature of the game's challenge.

It is the same if you use fandom or other spoiler webpages/forums to get information about playing the game and the resources.  Similarly if you edit your save file to give yourself warm clothes, good tools & weapons and some food then you are not playing a game about the survival challenge of an unequipped crashed pilot.

I get what you're saying here. I agree that using online maps changes the nature of the game. But whether that is a good or bad thing is subjective. I like maps, because as a parent with limited leisure time... wandering around lost is not how I want to spend that time. Does it change the original intention of the devs? Sure does. But I can't imagine anyone being upset that someone is enjoying their art in their own way - they are still, enjoying that art.

I like how the charcoal maps are kind of inaccurate. If I tried to make a map of my own town which I know well... it would be very hard indeed. But really... a town like this would have maps in every home and glovebox.... so I just pretend that the ones I get online are from a glovebox somewhere!

[UpUpAway95]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:10 AM, peteloud said:

The game is meant to be the survival challenge of an unequipped crashed pilot in unknown hostile territory.  He has no maps, no warm clothes, no food or equipment.  If you go to fandom to get copies of, or just look at, the maps of the regions you change the nature of the game's challenge.

It is the same if you use fandom or other spoiler webpages/forums to get information about playing the game and the resources.  Similarly if you edit your save file to give yourself warm clothes, good tools & weapons and some food then you are not playing a game about the survival challenge of an unequipped crashed pilot.

... and I've often argued that a crashed bush pilot would have an aeronautical chart of the areas he is flying over (so the game should provide one of those).  They'd still be a challenge for many people to read.  Also, it is aviation law in Canada that the pilot has survival gear loaded on the plane including the means of starting fires and food and shelter for each passenger for enough time for a reasonable rescue to reach the area.  So, there should be no such thing as an "unequipped" crashed pilot... no if he's a good pilot anyways... there are only careful pilots and dead pilots.

[Old Hermit]

On 4/17/2021 at 8:58 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

Also, it is aviation law in Canada that the pilot has survival gear loaded on the plane including the means of starting fires and food and shelter for each passenger for enough time for a reasonable rescue to reach the area.  So, there should be no such thing as an "unequipped" crashed pilot... no if he's a good pilot anyways... there are only careful pilots and dead pilots.

It would be very nice. But still has the chance of that gear being burned or fallen on the chasm or lost somehow in the plane crash.

About the aeronautical chart, it was my very first thought when i started to play TLD. A commercial pilot surely would have some minimal navigation info document.

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, Old Hermit said:

It would be very nice. But still has the chance of that gear being burned or fallen on the chasm or lost somehow in the plane crash.

About the aeronautical chart, it was my very first thought when i started to play TLD. A commercial pilot surely would have some minimal navigation info document.

Yes, even the aeronautical charts could be destroyed in the crash, along with food and supplies.  If an actual crash site was plopped down wherever the player spawns, this situation could be made clear by having a "burned chart," "burned supplies" as something one would see at that crash site.  What and how much survives could be somewhat dictated by the "baseline resources" selected by the player (i.e. difficulty mode).  As it is, there is nothing to indicate that Will's plane burned at all in story mode... and we have the whole "debate" about what 5 kg item Will show take; whereas, in Canadian aviation law at least, he would be required to pack it all.

[UpUpAway95]

Just realized I haven't answered the poll question.  No, I generally do not use the maps online nor do I bother with using charcoal to draw the map ingame... that's probably why it took me so long to discover that spray painting the prepper caches when I did find them in ML and PV marked them on the map.  I did use the online maps when I was working towards the Faithful Cartographer achievement to make sure I caught everything required.  I tend to play more "nomadically" now, going where the wind direction takes me and taking shelter wherever and whenever I find it.  Some routes I've memorzied (like the route to the summit of TWM) and other places I still get lost getting to them... generally, it all works out fine... and if I get ganked or die falling or whatever... I start a new run and always have fun doing so.  It's just the wya I play the game.  Living a long, long time in this game is exceedingly boring.  Knowing where to find all the choice loot and beelining for it is also exceedingly boring.  Living by the seat of one's pants... now that's exciting... and makes me glad I don't have a terrific memory in order to memorize the game's locations and what they have in them.

I rely instead on the in-game natural navigation system... rosehips, mushrooms, old man's beards, and fallen "arrow" trees that show the ways to shelter.

Edited April 23, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[stirfoo]

Initially, yes. I found the maps on line and used them. Now I've memorized each region (except AC) where a map isn't needed.