Night time snow particle changes

[Satouthedeusmusco]

@Schrodingers Box

I've stated it multiple times. I just don't want the snow particles to glow white without a lightsource to illuminate them. That's it. I never pretended it to be anything else.

When it's dark and there is snowfall the falling snow shouldn't glow. The falling snow should be dark like everything else. It will still block visibility like that. It just won't be an artstyle breaking eyesore like that.

As it is now it's funnily enough TOO BRIGHT when it's snowing at night.

[ManicManiac]

Snow (being ice crystals) is generally going to reflect more ambient light than say... a tree, or rocks... so I think it's reasonable that the falling snow is going to be a bit "lighter" than the rest of the "background."

After all, there is ambient light that is present at night... otherwise we wouldn't be able to see at all.  I mean, without light our photoreceptors would have nothing to work with.

Edited February 8, 2021 by ManicManiac

[Satouthedeusmusco]

@ManicManiac
The snow in game is currently just as bright at night as it is during day. So too bright.

I am aware how light works. It's basicaly highschool physics. The brightness of the snow particles in game at night is just unreasonable.

[Stinky socks]

I understand what OP is saying and I think it is similar to what happens in flight simulator X when you enable dx10(11?) Preview mode. Snow glows and looks pretty bad.

However I doubt it's possible to easily fix this issue. Perhaps it's graphics engine limitation?

[Schrodingers Box]

Manic nailed it. 
   so here’s the deal. The developers change it so the snow doesn’t glow. That’s your only request- make the snow less bright because that’s more realistic.
  so now it’s just absolutely pitch black. So you can’t see at all just like IRL. So you turn the lantern on and all you see is nothing but bright white snow and nothing else. Because that’s realistically what happens. 
 arent you going to complain again about how it’s “disorienting”?

   I just don’t understand your point. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Schrodingers Box

[ManicManiac]

2 minutes ago, Satouthedeusmusco said:

The snow in game is currently just as bright at night as it is during day.

I play this game a lot too... and I've gotten to see how the game handles snow in both day and night.  They don't appear at the same brightness to me.
I can respect that you feel that the snow is too bight at night, but I can't agree with your assertion that they have are at the exact same light levels regardless of it being day or night... I just don't think that that's true (at least not from what I've seen of this game).

[hozz1235]

I'm just reinforced in my decision to ignore @ManicManiac.  I can't even see what he is saying, but it appears most people have trouble dealing with him.

[UpUpAway95]

20 minutes ago, Schrodingers Box said:

So which is it then? Do you want absolutely no visibility whatsoever at night during a snowfall like IRL then?   I don’t understand what you are asking for. You want realistic replication and yet complain about visibility... come again??
 

IRL, even without visibility you would feel the terrain under your feet and know at least whether or not you were moving.  Using a particle effect to create disorientation in a videogame can, in no way, be "realistic" just like it would be impossible to play with "no visibility" either.  When the screen is totally black, you cannot possibly have any sense of whether or not the avatar is in motion or the direction in which it is in motion.  The player's experience (or lack thereof) with being in a real snowstorm has nothing to do with this.

[ManicManiac]

Just now, hozz1235 said:

I'm just reinforced in my decision to ignore

Then why did you pop in for the sole purpose of calling it out
(because that's not "ignoring" me... it seems you're just being a bit antagonistic at this point)

[Satouthedeusmusco]

3 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

They don't appear at the same brightness to me.
I can respect that you feel that the snow is too bight at night, but I can't agree with your assertion that they have are at the exact same light levels regardless of it being day or night... I just don't think that that's true (at least not from what I've seen of this game).

 

@ManicManiac

Compare the FALLING snow in this image to the snow in my previously uploaded images. It's the same brightness.

[Old Hermit]

Some ppl don't understand, and some ppl don't want to understand hahahahahahaha

I'm in accord with @Satouthedeusmusco

 

IRL health issues should determine game design, not the opposite.

[Satouthedeusmusco]

9 minutes ago, Schrodingers Box said:

Manic nailed it. 
   so here’s the deal. The developers change it so the snow doesn’t glow. That’s your only request- make the snow less bright because that’s more realistic.
  so now it’s just absolutely pitch black. So you can’t see at all just like IRL. So you turn the lantern on and all you see is nothing but bright white snow and nothing else. Because that’s realistically what happens. 
 arent you going to complain again about how it’s “disorienting”?

   I just don’t understand your point. 

@Schrodingers Box

And I don't understand your need for hyperbole.

Let me walk around in the dark trying to find my way without the screen being painful to look at. Let me turn on the latern if I like (turning on the latern means the snow isn't blindingly bright compared to the black landscape due to the contrast of the lantern.

There is nothing to defend here. The way snow works in game right now is objectively bad.

[ManicManiac]

@Satouthedeusmusco

I just saved both pictures... opened both in my photo editing software and sampled several snowflakes from both.
The ones in the night time picture are in fact darker shades than the ones in the day time.

[Schrodingers Box]

Nope- it’s objectively good and you even indirectly admit it with your inconsistencies. 
  you got your lunch ate here from everyone. Just drop it. the mechanic works as it should.  The game should absolutely not be changed to adapt to an individual’s desire that  the mechanics to create disorientation no longer be disorienting. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Schrodingers Box

[Satouthedeusmusco]

@ManicManiac

The first images I uploaded are from my own game.

The daytime image is from the internet.

The difference in brightness could be responsible for this change.

@Schrodingers Box
 

What inconsistencies? Clearly stating that I only want the snow to not be bright when it should in fact by dark?

Chill dude.

[Schrodingers Box]

 Inconsistency:

  “The snow at night is too bright. It’s disorienting. Make it realistic so snow isn’t bright.”

  okay. We made it realistic. Snow is no longer bright. It’s now pitch dark- lower visibility than fog so it’s realistic. 

  “It’s too dark to see but when I turn the lantern on the snow is blinding as would realistically happen . It’s disorienting”

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Schrodingers Box

[ManicManiac]

8 minutes ago, Satouthedeusmusco said:

The difference in brightness could be responsible for this change.

I just did what you asked me to...  What I found was the same as what I see the game every day when I play it.
As I said, I can totally respect that you feel that the snow is too bright at night... but I just can't agree with your assertions that the snow is the exact same brightness as it is in the day... because I don't think that's really the case (not in my experience with the game anyway).

Again, I don't mean anything personally towards anyone.  Everybody has the right to their own opinion.  Mine just happens to be that I think the night time snowfall is fine just as it is.

Edited February 8, 2021 by ManicManiac

[Satouthedeusmusco]

@Schrodingers Box

Who are you quoting? Not me. I haven't said either of those things. You do know that I can scroll back up and check right?

You're paraphrasing what you think I said. Not what I actually said.

@ManicManiac

Here I made a new screenshot for you. Comparing these should give you a better answer.

I'd apperciate it if you showed me a screenshot of your findings.

 

Edit: I'm noticing now every snow particle is the same brightness in this image. So there might be no way of truel objectively measuring this.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Satouthedeusmusco

[ManicManiac]

@Satouthedeusmusco

Certainly, I'd be happy to take another look. 

[Schrodingers Box]

16 minutes ago, Satouthedeusmusco said:

@Schrodingers Box

Who are you quoting? Not me. I haven't said either of those things. You do know that I can scroll back up and check right?

You're paraphrasing what you think I said. Not what I actually said.

@ManicManiac

Here I made a new screenshot for you. Comparing these should give you a better answer.

I'd apperciate it if you showed me a screenshot of your findings.

 

Edit: I'm noticing now every snow particle is the same brightness in this image. So there might be no way of truel objectively measuring this.

I merely  summarized your inconsistent thinking. Basically the reason you are getting eaten alive by everyone is for two reasons:

  first, the logic flaw that the “unrealistic” snow makes the game “disorienting” and yet if they made it realistic it would actually be even more disorienting. 
  the second reason is you don’t even know what is realistic because you have never been in the wilderness much less in snowfall at night. the devs absolutely BRILLIANTLY nailed so many aspects that you can’t appreciate.  For example, they not only nailed the disorientation the snow causes at night but also the way it changes your perception of objects even at close range in such conditions. “Oh $()/!!! is that a BEAR???? Oh wait- no it’s a hay bale. or wait- is it?”   “is that a house? No I think it’s just a rock...”

  they absolutely nailed it. And now someone with no experience whatsoever wants to change it because it’s “disorienting” to them. 
  actually the real issue is that you don’t know the maps well enough to play at night in the snow. you need to adjust the weather to an easier setting to match your skill level. that’s the honest truth. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Schrodingers Box

[Satouthedeusmusco]

1 minute ago, Schrodingers Box said:

I merely  summarized your inconsistent thinking. Basically the reason you are getting eaten alive by everyone is for two reasons:

  first, the logic flaw that the “unrealistic” snow makes the game “disorienting” and yet if they made it realistic it would actually be even more disorienting. 
  the second reason is you don’t even know what is realistic because you have never been in the wilderness much less in snowfall at night. the devs absolutely BRILLIANTLY nailed so many aspects that you can’t appreciate.  For example, they not only nailed the disorientation the snow causes at night but also the way it changes your perception of objects even at close range in such conditions. “Oh $()/!!! is that a BEAR???? Oh wait- no it’s a hat bale. or wait- is it?”   “is that a house? No I think it’s just a rock...”

  they absolutely nailed it. 

Thanks for admitting you don't actually understand what I'm saying and are completely fine with building a caricature of me for the sake of winning your argument.

There are no inconsistencies. You clearly misread something. I never said anything about it being too bright with a lantern. As a matter of fact I said the opposite.

I'm just going to ignore you now. Why would I bother discussing anything with someone who builds a strawman arguments and misquotes me.

 

Oh, and that rock and bear thing. That would still happens if the snow isn't unnaturally bright. Hell, that still happens to me during daytime. You are defending nothing my dude. I bet you never even thought about the way snow was implemented at night up until now and that you just had a gut reaction to reading my OP that you for some reason are sticking with.

 

[Old Hermit]

48 minutes ago, Satouthedeusmusco said:

@ManicManiac
The snow in game is currently just as bright at night as it is during day. So too bright.

I am aware how light works. It's basicaly highschool physics. The brightness of the snow particles in game at night is just unreasonable.

We can see that is a "problem" with the particles when we look the waterfalls splashes at night. They are as self-illuminated as the snow flakes. Sorry i don't have any screenshot for that.

If it is an intended feature or an oversighted item of enviro design, is another question.

[ManicManiac]

@Satouthedeusmusco

It took a few minutes to get the screen shots in order... I figured sampling 3 should be sufficient, I picked from different flakes with different background elements (as well as sampling some that were more opaque and more translucent - comparatively).

Day Screenshot...                                                                     Night Screenshot...
                         
                        
                              

To me, it seems very evident that they are not the same between day and night... the night flakes are just darker, they're not the same.

Edited February 8, 2021 by ManicManiac

[Schrodingers Box]

Ah sorry to hear about your denial. The bottom line is you simply need to adjust the difficulty settings for weather to make it easier because you don’t know the maps well enough to play at night in snow. 
   Just like IRL- an experienced person heading into unfamiliar wilderness at night during snow is going to very quickly get lost- exactly what you are complaining about. You need to make the settings match your more intermediate level of play, not change the successful mechanics. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Schrodingers Box

[Old Hermit]

4 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@Satouthedeusmusco

It took a few minutes to get the screen shots in order... I figured sampling 3 should be sufficient, I picked from different flakes with different background elements (as well as sampling some that were more opaque and more translucent - comparatively).

Day Screenshot...                                                                     Night Screenshot...
                         
                        
                              

To me, it seems very evident that they are not the same between day and night... the night flakes are just darker, they're not the same.

Manic, if i may, i think u should not analyze the particles from screenshot, since there are other factores that can influence the final RGB output, as environmental global lighting, background colors and values, fog density (if any) etc. To a proper approach happen, we should have access to the engine's values for self-illumination, opacity, textures and/or RGB values for the given particles.

Please, dont get me wrong. Im saying it from an enviro design and technical perspective. I know your point is valid. But the screenshot output is not a good source of "pure" data, so to speak.

sorry for my english.