Night time snow particle changes


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Right now in The Long Dark most of your playthrough will be spent during daytime. And during that time the game looks great. The game also generally looks great at night. With one glaring exception. The falling snow particles at night.

 

The falling snow particles at night aren’t just bad, it’s downright disorienting. I’m not joking when I say they give me a headache and make me feel uncomfortable. Moving the camera quickly will leave me completely disoriented, and not in a good “it’s so dark I don’t know where I am” kind of way, but in a “these white particles are making it hard to see how far I turned the camera” kind of way. It’s also just unrealistic. Why is the snow lit up when no one is shining any light on it?

My solution: Make it so the snow particles are affected by light level.

Besides being realistic, it will also completely solve my problem. When it’s dark outside the snow should be as dark as the surrounding landscape. Not blindingly bright.

I encountered this problem when playing the endless night mode in a custom difficulty setting. Normally I’d not encounter it because night time is when I make my character sleep 99% of the time.

 

You can check the attached image as an example of my problem. Notice the bright white falling snow against complete darkness. Just as a still image it looks wrong, but it's even worse when the snow and the camera is moving.

 

TL;DR

My problem isn't that it's too dark. My problem is that the falling snow is too bright during the night. It should be just as black as the rest of the landscape.

screen_(74, 247, 459)_a1a3ed5f-f2de-4511-8209-8de8e7ea1efe.png

Edited by Satouthedeusmusco
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That's a ridiculous stance.  It's like saying they should eliminate the Brightness adjustment and put it into the Custom menu instead.  Some things are about personal comfort... not about being a "nov

They want the snow particles to still exist but be darker  at night, only lighting up when theres a lantern affecting them. 

I'm not sure what the solution would be, but I do agree with you.  I have vision issues that make it all but impossible to see through a lot of weather effects in many different games.  It gives me he

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I'm not sure what the solution would be, but I do agree with you.  I have vision issues that make it all but impossible to see through a lot of weather effects in many different games.  It gives me headaches as I strain my eyes further trying to see and really diminishes my enjoyment of these games, including TLD.  I'd actually like an accessibility option that overrides the particle effects and/or allows the player to turn up the light levels in the darkest areas of the game.  While I see Youtubers who are able to navigate a cave or mine in the dark, I know my vision simply doesn't allow me to do that even with the brightness set almost unreasonably high.  For example, when going through the waterfall in the cave in Ash Canyon, I'm unable to even tell whether or not I'm moving forward at all after my torch gets snuffed by the water.  I've even inadvertently turned myself right around and exited the waterfall on the same side as I entered it.

I know it would make the game easier for me (and that would be a relief in this case); and people with normal vision would just have to exhibit some self-control and resist using such an aid in the game.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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Ummmmmm. That’s the whole point. let me get this straight- you are complaining that you can’t see... at dead of night... in an area with absolutely zero lighting.... DURING A SNOWFALL???? 
   Man I bet you really wish they would do something about that gosh darned viability limitation in blizzards and fog lol. 
 Come on. SMDH. 

Edited by Schrodingers Box
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5 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

I think that's kind of the point though...  :)

:coffee::fire::coffee:

 

Just now, Schrodingers Box said:

Ummmmmm. That’s the whole point. let me get this straight- you are complaining that you can’t see... at dead of night... in an area with absolutely zero lighting.... DURING A SNOWFALL???? 
 Come on. SMDH. 

 

You misunderstand. Look at the given image.

Everything is absolutely dark BESIDES the falling snow which is a bright white color. On that still image you might be forgiven for mistaking them as stars.

This is disorienting not because you can't see, but because of the harsh contrast of the bright white falling snow (which makes no sense because falling snow doesn't glow) and the complete darkness.

 

TL;DR

My problem isn't that it's too dark. My problem is that the falling snow is too bright during the night. It should be just as black as the rest of the landscape.

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@Satouthedeusmusco

...and you misunderstand my point.:D
I don't think there is anything here for Hinterland to "fix."

I think that the snow is supposed to be disorienting, so to me this is fine.  I kind of like the effect.  I'm not going to argue about it, but I just don't agree with your assertions.

Also, the game doesn't need to perfectly emulate reality... If the snow particles at night achieve the intended effect (and I think it does), then I'd say there is no need to change it.


:coffee::fire::coffee:
Just as a side note... I tend to think that if folks don't like the look of snow particles at night, I'd suggest that folks could always simply choose not to travel at night during a snow fall (rather than folks trying to have the Hinterland alter the my game experience just to suit their own personal tastes).

 

Anyways, I've said my piece.  We don't agree, and that's okay.  :)

Edited by ManicManiac
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1 minute ago, ManicManiac said:

@Satouthedeusmusco

...and you misunderstand my point.:D
I don't think there is anything here for Hinterland to "fix."

I think that the snow is supposed to be disorienting, so to me this is fine.  I kind of like the effect.  I'm not going to argue with you about it, I just don't agree with your assertions.

Also, the game doesn't need to perfectly emulate reality... If the snow particles at night achieve the intended effect (and I think it does), then I'd say there is no need to change it.


:coffee::fire::coffee:
Just as a side note... You could always simply choose not to travel at night during a snow fall (rather than folks trying to have the Hinterland alter my experience to suit their personal tastes).

I'm currently playing endless night mode. Not moving at night isn't an option.

A snow storm at night should be disorienting because it's dark. Because even the light of the moon and the stars is blocked out. It should NOT be disorienting of an intense contrast between the bright snow and the darkness of the rest of the landscape.

Right now it's not tense or scary. It's just frustrating and physically discomforting.

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@Satouthedeusmusco

I was updating my previous post to better clarify what I meant and to use more general terms.
As I mentioned before though:
Folks don't have to travel in heavy snow fall... The player can choose not to (doesn't mater if it's night time or day time).  It's just like a fog, the player can choose to travel in it or not to travel in it. 

Anyways, as I said before I'm not going to argue about it... I simply don't think this is something that needs to be changed.  I think it's serves it's purpose.


:coffee::fire::coffee:
We don't agree, and that's okay.  :)

 

(Addendum)
I didn't notice how recent your post was... I generally give topics like these a couple of days before I weigh in on them (lately), but as I mentioned I didn't notice how recent the post was.  In any case, I'm not condemning the idea... or your opinion... I just don't agree with it.

Edited by ManicManiac
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14 minutes ago, Satouthedeusmusco said:

I'm currently playing endless night mode. Not moving at night isn't an option.

A snow storm at night should be disorienting because it's dark. Because even the light of the moon and the stars is blocked out. It should NOT be disorienting of an intense contrast between the bright snow and the darkness of the rest of the landscape.

Right now it's not tense or scary. It's just frustrating and physically discomforting.

Honestly, don't expect any understanding from a lot of the people here.  I remember going through a similar "ordeal" here on the forums when I suggested the lighting contrast was out of balance when they introduced the update that modified Pleasant Valley.  Hinterland utlimately made improvements to that lighting issue enough that it diminished my headaches a lot.  People have different eyesight and challenges associated with their vision and lighting simulations on computers aren't perfect or necessarily enjoyable for everyone.  However, a lot of gamers have difficulty understanding that.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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:D ...and as I've often said... if Hinterland decides that they want to change things, I'm fine with that (it's their game).  These are just my thoughts on this particular subject.

I really wish folks would stop trying to characterize other opinions as some kind of personal attack (because it's not).  Everyone on a form should be able to discuss their opinions... right?

:coffee::fire::coffee:

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11 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

:D ...and as I've often said... if Hinterland decides that they want to change things, I'm fine with that (it's their game).  These are just my thoughts on this particular subject.

I really wish folks would stop trying to characterize other opinions as some kind of personal attack (because it's not).  Everyone on a form should be able to discuss their opinions... right?

:coffee::fire::coffee:

So, why are you characterizing the OP's opinion?  Do you honestly think you're understanding at all what the OP is seeing and experiencing when you, likely, have normal vision and don't get headaches when you play this game?... which, all I basically said, in a general and not personal way, that he/she shouldn't expect a lot of understanding here.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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8 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

So, why are you characterizing the OP's opinion? 

I think you're characterization the situation again... :D
I'm not criticizing anyone's opinion, I just don't agree with it.

I don't see why you should get to try and sit in judgement of me or try and tell me what my intentions are... (I don't think you're qualified to do that).


:coffee::fire::coffee:
Please let's not go down this particular rabbit hole... I just came here as I always do to give my opinion, just like everyone else gets to.  Or... do you feel that if a person doesn't agree that they should all stay silent?  You've not agreed with ideas before...

Edited by ManicManiac
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1 minute ago, ManicManiac said:

I think you're characterization the situation again... :D
I'm not criticizing anyone's opinion, I just don't agree with it.

I don't see why you should get to try and sit in judgement of me or try and tell me what my intentions are... (I don't think you're qualified to do that).


:coffee::fire::coffee:
Please let's not go down this particular rabbit hole... I just came here as I always do to give my opinion, just like everyone else gets to.  Or... do you feel that if a person doesn't agree that they should all stay silent?  You've not agreed with ideas before...

How did I sit in judgment of you?  YOU were not even mentioned in my comment.  You're the one taking things that are not personal... personally.  I never suggested anyone could not express their opinion.  You're the one that has since started an "attack" on my comment.  I suggest you let it go.  We disagree... and that's OK.

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@UpUpAway95

Look, I respect you personally and your right to express your opinions; I would just like the same courtesy... without snarky comments about disagreements you've had with me in the past.  I just don't think that's appropriate.


:coffee::fire::coffee:
I'd be happy to drop it, I'd prefer it...  :)
So then, lets be done now.

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@ManicManiac

Just not moving because it physically hurst to look at the screen is not a desirable way to design a video game. What if my character is starving to death and I need to hunt something? Is it good game design that I have to weigh the needs of my character against real life discomfort? No.

I originally replied to your comment because I thought you misunderstood me. So I clarified. In no way did I assume you personally attacked me.

And I still think you misunderstand the point in general. The snow is too bright at night and it's downright uncomfortable for some players. You can disagree with this but that doesn't matter. Would it somehow make the game worse for you if they actually made nighttime snow particles adjust to the light level? Simply having an opinion does not mean it's a well-informed or good opinion. And if I feel an opinion doesn't stand up to scrutiny I just won't let it be on the basis that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you give your opinion you should be prepared for others to disagree.

@UpUpAway95

I thing I happen to notice in many forums is that some users will jump to the defense of the game and its developers on any point. Even if there is really nothing to defend.

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6 minutes ago, Satouthedeusmusco said:

I originally replied to your comment because I thought you misunderstood me. So I clarified. In no way did I assume you personally attacked me.

I didn't assume that per se... my apologies if it read that way.  I just thought that perhaps you misunderstood me.  :)


:coffee::fire::coffee:
Again, I only meant to weigh in with my perspective... that's all.  At the time of your first post, you hadn't mentioned any kind of differently-abled context so I had no other frame of reference as to your reasoning other than what you had stated in the initial post.

My apologies for any confusion.
 

Edited by ManicManiac
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17 minutes ago, Satouthedeusmusco said:

@ManicManiac

Just not moving because it physically hurst to look at the screen is not a desirable way to design a video game. What if my character is starving to death and I need to hunt something? Is it good game design that I have to weigh the needs of my character against real life discomfort? No.

 

I originally replied to your comment because I thought you misunderstood me. So I clarified. In no way did I assume you personally attacked me.

 

And I still think you misunderstand the point in general. The snow is too bright at night and it's downright uncomfortable for some players. You can disagree with this but that doesn't matter. Would it somehow make the game worse for you if they actually made nighttime snow particles adjust to the light level? Simply having an opinion does not mean it's a well-informed or good opinion. And if I feel an opinion doesn't stand up to scrutiny I just won't let it be on the basis that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you give your opinion you should be prepared for others to disagree.

@UpUpAway95

 

I thing I happen to notice in many forums is that some users will jump to the defense of the game and its developers on any point. Even if there is really nothing to defend.

 

That's why my thought it to set up an accessibility option, rather than any change to the standard particle effects in the game... that way, players who currently don't have any problems with it can avoid experiencing any change in the game... and players who do have vision issues with it can choose to modify the particle effect to enable themselves to play in comfort... despite it making the game, likely, overall easier for us.  The current option to merely change the brightness is not adequate.  At the very least, there should be a separate option to adjust contrast.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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@ManicManiac

I'm not even differently abled. My eyes are perfectly normal.

My point purely stems from actual in game experience. Using the endless night mode and actually playing at night when it's snowing. From this experience I can conclude that the snow particles at night are currently in a bad, almost unacceptable state. The player should not have to question how far they turned their camera.

Yes, traveling at night should be disorienting because its dark and you can't see where you're going. Not because of the snow particles extreme brightness compared to the surrounding landscape.

The way the snow particles at night are currently implemented is just bad. There is nothing to defend. It's unrealistic, it clashes with the artstyle, it conflicts with what travling at night is actually about, it can even be physically discomforting to look at and it just looks bad... Like seriously, it just looks so out of place bad compared to how beautiful the game looks at night without falling snow.

@Schrodingers Box

Please go back and read my TL;DR.

Alternatively. I recommend playing endless night mode and experiencing it for yourself.

Actual snow does not glow a bright white in pure darkness.

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You have clearly never been in the wilderness in your life much less during snow.  You can’t see even a foot in front of you during a snowfall and if you put on a flashlight or lantern all you will see is bright snow and nothing else. 
   That’s why it’s so dangerous to go out in the wilderness at night anyway much less during snow. 
   Maybe they can make a setting just for you “blizzards, fog and nighttime do not limit visibility”. 
   

Edited by Schrodingers Box
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@Schrodingers Box

I have. Snow doesn't glow during the night.

Did you see the image I posted with my OP. There are no lightsources there yet the snow still glows. That is not how actual snow works.

Sure if you had a torch or latern out THEN the snow should be visibly white again. But without a lightsource snow doesn't appear white.

 

I'm not saying they should up the visibility at night. The falling snow should still block your vision. It just shouldn't literally glow an uncomfortably bright white.

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So which is it then? Do you want absolutely no visibility whatsoever at night during a snowfall like IRL then?   I don’t understand what you are asking for. You want realistic replication and yet complain about visibility... come again??
 

Edited by Schrodingers Box
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