Sleep or rest without a bedroll, when inside buildings or under a shelter.

[Syraith]

I think you’re missing my point peteloud. I’m not saying you can’t have negative effects to sleeping on the floor and make it work as a game element, I’m just saying that the devs may have intentionally made this a very deadly result by not having the bedroll.
 

Almost any area has houses, trailers, etc that if you start getting tired can make it to. But if you go to Ash Canyon, or Timberwolf Mountain for example, you BETTER pay more attention. In real life survival situations, a single simple mistake can be the real trial of life or death. By not having that mechanic available, the threat in those regions is a lot higher. 

[Old Hermit]

6 hours ago, Syraith said:

having one only real remedy for sleeping is a little odd.

Yes. We have coffee for a little bit, but it's not a great deal.

A little offtopic, but one thing that bothers me a bit is that tiredness and sleeping necessity are the same thing, and should be separated, although yet linked somehow. I mean, if i sleep for 12h consecutive, and then i go walk/run/climb all day, i should not get sleepy. i should get exhausted, and could be (totally or partially) repaired passing time, or doing other minor activities (reading?) while sit quiet.

I don't know how it could be implemented ingame. As i said, is just one thing that bothers me a bit.

(using google translator)

[Syraith]

2 minutes ago, Old Hermit said:

Yes. We have coffee for a little bit, but it's not a great deal.

Ahh, duh. Thank you! It isn’t much like being able to risk eating something, add cloths, start fires, etc. It is something at least.

 

I agree. It would be nice if rather than draining your energy like it does making you need to sleep, maybe add a stamina reduction like clothing weight does but is remedied by sleeping or slowly over time? 

[Stoutlander]

On 2/25/2021 at 4:16 AM, peteloud said:

One should be able to sleep anywhere.  It should be the simple issue of warmth.  If you do not use a bedroll you do not have the warmth bonus.

The ground is a heat sink. A cold floor is a heat sink. Frozen ground is a super heat sink. It is not a simple issue of warmth. You can be nice and toasty, go to sleep on a cold surface and not wake up.

[xenojeff]

Lots of good suggestions here. 

I just wanted to chime in on the general idea that because something is dangerous to do IRL, it somehow shouldn't be possible to do in a game.  On the contrary.  A survival game is a game of choices.  Some choices are safe, others are risky and deadly, and they all add to the immersion.  So if they allowed sleeping outisde directly on the freezing ice which would likely lead to death, that would still improve the game play by making it more freeform, as in "it's up to you what you want to try, we won't stop you or hold your hand by blocking that option".  I don't know why people conflate "something is deadly IRL" with "it shouldn't be possible as a mechanic". 

And again, here's the nonsensical situation that I encountered a few times, which prompted me to start this thread in the first place.  I was in some shelter, like a barn or a workshop area, or something like that.  I couldn't rest inside because there was no bed and I didn't have a bedroll.  My only option (because I was lucky to have cloths) was to go outside, waste more energy and warmth looking for 15 sticks to build a snow shelter from the cloths, and sleep outside in the frigging snow, instead of inside by the fire.  That right there makes no sense in terms of available options, or in terms of reality and laws of physics.  If I can build something to rest outside, I should be able to either take it inside, or build something similar inside, where it's warmer.  It really doesn't matter to me what they do, as long as they address this kind of a preposterous scenario that forces me to sleep outside in the cold wind and snow, when I have a shelter with fire going.  This kind of a forced situation really broke my immersion, and IMO shouldn't exist in the game . 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by xenojeff

[Old Hermit]

2 hours ago, xenojeff said:

So if they allowed sleeping outisde directly on the freezing ice which would likely lead to death, that would still improve the game play by making it more freeform, as in "it's up to you what you want to try, we won't stop you or hold your hand by blocking that option".  I don't know why people conflate "something is deadly IRL" with "it shouldn't be possible as a mechanic".

I compare it to putting invisible barriers in every ledges and cliffs (in some games). I'ts an overprotection.

You could only know the range of the damage after the first fall.

 

Let the danger teach us through the pain.

[xenojeff]

48 minutes ago, Old Hermit said:

I compare it to putting invisible barriers in every ledges and cliffs (in some games). I'ts an overprotection.

You could only know the range of the damage after the first fall.

Let the danger teach us through the pain.

Yes, that's another good example.  In a game where you can sustain injuries and die from them, there shouldn't be invisible walls to block you from falling.  It's just silly. 

[odizzido]

6 hours ago, xenojeff said:

And again, here's the nonsensical situation that I encountered a few times, which prompted me to start this thread in the first place.  I was in some shelter, like a barn or a workshop area, or something like that.  I couldn't rest inside because there was no bed and I didn't have a bedroll.  My only option (because I was lucky to have cloths) was to go outside, waste more energy and warmth looking for 15 sticks to build a snow shelter from the cloths, and sleep outside in the frigging snow, instead of inside by the fire. 

 

Yup. That's a major issue with the game. If you have played for 1000+ hours and know where all the beds are you can mitigate it but the problem never goes away.

For anyone new or anyone who likes the game to make at least some sense that is a massive and obvious flaw that really hurts the experience.

[xenojeff]

1 hour ago, odizzido said:

Yup. That's a major issue with the game. If you have played for 1000+ hours and know where all the beds are you can mitigate it but the problem never goes away.

For anyone new or anyone who likes the game to make at least some sense that is a massive and obvious flaw that really hurts the experience.

Very true.  And I feel that's an even bigger issue with survival mode.  I tried it for a couple of hours before I gave up on it, because I realized right away that the key to survival is having advance knowledge of the locations and loot caches.  I don't like to meta game in general and playing a new game which almost requires meta knowledge is kind of a let down.  Essentially, survival mode without any prior knowledge boils down to: you're thrown in the middle of a frozen desert, you pick a random direction and you'll either get lucky to find a shelter with loot, or you die.

Edited February 28, 2021 by xenojeff

[Stoutlander]

Is there a polite word for whining?

Asking for a friend.

[Satouthedeusmusco]

10 hours ago, xenojeff said:

Very true.  And I feel that's an even bigger issue with survival mode.  I tried it for a couple of hours before I gave up on it, because I realized right away that the key to survival is having advance knowledge of the locations and loot caches.  I don't like to meta game in general and playing a new game which almost requires meta knowledge is kind of a let down.  Essentially, survival mode without any prior knowledge boils down to: you're thrown in the middle of a frozen desert, you pick a random direction and you'll either get lucky to find a shelter with loot, or you die.

 

 I very much disagree. The Long Dark has some flaws, but being unfair to new players isn't one of them. The game recommends certain starting regions which are intentionally designed to be easy to navigate and rich in resources. Mystery lake is a good example with its well spread out loot, near omnipresent landmarks and easily navigable terrain. If played on voyager the play will most likely stack up enough resources just exploring the region. Eventually they will want to explore other regions, either because they need resources from other regions or because they feel comfortable doing so. Eventually the new player will quit his first survival run. Either because he died or gave up on it for some reason (most likely THINKING they are in an unrecoverable position which they actually aren’t in). But since survival mode has no real goal the new player doesn’t actually really lose anything when dying and he can start again this time more efficient because of the things he’s learned. No meta gaming required. No wiki needs to be visited. Just explore your surroundings, try things, and understand that you aren’t actually losing anything when you die.

 

It’s also unfair criticism to say that success in a certain game is more likely if the player has more experience with it and knowledge of it. That’s simply and inevitable property of knowledge. If you’re starting a farm in real life it will probably end up more successful if you already have farming experience.

 

Lastly. There is nothing wrong with “getting lucky” this isn’t a multiplayer game. Balance and fairness aren’t required or even desirable. Being thrown into a frozen desert and having to pick a direction IS what a lot of people love about the game. Making a makeshift base in a nook on a cliff face, just barely out of the wind with a small fire keeping you warm. That one night is a thousand times more memorable then the dozens upon dozens of nights I’ve spent sleeping in the cabins of mystery lake. And like I said before, if you’re a new player and you play on one of the recommended starting regions then there is always some landmark you can use to orient yourself, with shelters spread out evenly so players can always find some place to warm up.

[Mrcpu]

On 2/7/2021 at 6:21 PM, xenojeff said:

The inability to lie down and sleep on the floor is one of the few annoyances with the survival game play.

Yea.. I was in the army and can sleep anywhere LOL
Seriously though, I think you should be able to sit and rest or lay down and sleep pretty much anywhere however doing this without a bedroll would have ramifications.  For example you'd get colder, not warmer unless laying next to a fire.   In addition you'd risk waking up with a pain in the back or neck and have to use pain meds.  Neck pain would be fun if everything was canted to the side until your pain went away.

 

[Hotklou2404]

On 2/10/2021 at 7:18 PM, Stinky socks said:

Maybe @UpUpAway95has a point. When I have to travel, I pack like there is no tomorrow; gotta have everything and hotel has to be clean and bed has to be nice to sleep in. I wonder if Astrid and McKenzie are the same way, cringing at the idea of sleeping somewhere on the floor or some cloths..

Perhaps they do cringe at the idea of that, but as shown in the Story mode's first act, right after your plane crash lands, at least McKenzie will sleep on the floor if necessary. At the very beginning when you've found no bedroll or bed yet and you're inside of that small cave, McKenzie did in fact just lie down on a bunch of leaves that's been arranged into a makeshift "bed" and then took a nap. He slept on the ground on top of a bunch of leaves. He had no bedroll and no bed, just his makeshift leaf bed and a fire to keep him warm. And while the leaves might be slightly more comfortable than the hard floor, it isn't a whole lot warmer. In fact, the wooden flooring of a house with a warm fire lit inside is much warmer than those leaves.

I fully support the idea of being able to sleep anywhere on the ground, without needing to sleep on a bed or a bedroll. If you die because of you sleeping on the floor instead of on a bed or bedroll, then that's on you. Penalties could include reduced condition recovery, reduced affliction recovery and reduced temperature while sleeping. Sleeping in a bedroll gives a bonus to your temperature. Sleeping on a bed gives less of a bonus (or no bonus? I don't really know...). And sleeping on the floor would actually reduce your temperature.

Sleeping on the floor should be a last resort, but it just feels wrong to not be able to do it at all. There will come situations when you simply don't have access to a bed or bedroll, and not being able to at least sleep on the floor is just plain stupid.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Hotklou2404

[odizzido]

On 3/25/2021 at 7:12 AM, Mrcpu said:

  Neck pain would be fun if everything was canted to the side until your pain went away.

That's impossible. Our spine is fused as evidenced by our inability to look backwards in a car.