Eliminate All Feats and Replace with Equivalent Sliders in Custom Menu


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Since people prefer the standard modes in the game... let's make them truly standard and make them all slightly more difficult in the long run by removing feats altogether and replacing them with equivalent options in custom mode (which is where customizing the character really belongs).  This would eliminate new players having to grind for days to, for example, light 1,000 fires or stand outside in blizzards for days on end just to earn the feats.  If they want to make their games easier (which is what the feats do), they can do that in Custom mode.

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5 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

If they want to make their games easier (which is what the feats do), they can do that in Custom mode.

There is good logic in this post, however the idea that the survivor is struggling to the same degree to start a fire on the 1000th campfire is not logical or realistic.

As with all survival type games, playing the "pure vanilla version" is important to most players...I would not feel any pride in accomplishment for completing a "custom mode game" and for that reason do not choose to play custom survivor mode.

Seems too bad that feats could not be made such that they are earned and then expire at the end of each playthrough so that the sense of gaining skill proficiency with practice is not lost from TLD game. Maybe each skill level should require some level of practice and success.

Stay safe my friends. :coffee:

Edited by s7mar7in
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4 hours ago, s7mar7in said:

There is good logic in this post, however the idea that the survivor is struggling to the same degree to start a fire on the 1000th campfire is not logical or realistic.

As with all survival type games, playing the "pure vanilla version" is important to most players...I would not feel any pride in accomplishment for completing a "custom mode game" and for that reason do not choose to play custom survivor mode.

Seems too bad that feats could not be made such that they are earned and then expire at the end of each playthrough so that the sense of gaining skill proficiency with practice is not lost from TLD game. Maybe each skill level should require some level of practice and success.

Stay safe my friends. :coffee:

To clarify - I did not say they were "struggling to start a fire on the 1000th campfire."  What I basically said was people were "grinding" to get 1000 campfires to get the feat.  Grinding... as in lighting a bunch of 1 stick fires with the magnifying lens to get to 1000 fires faster.  I've said it before, getting the numbers up to a level to get the feat is not hard, it's grindy (i.e. tedious, time-consuming).  Still, once the feat it obtained, using any of them makes the game easier.  Using the firestarting feat makes the game easier because the player then has a better chance to start a fire and doesn't have to mess with tinder right at the start of the game.  Cold Fusion grants a +2C warmth bonus which makes the game easier than without it.  They customize the player's character in ways that makes the game easier... they should be in the Custom menu along with all the other customization sliders.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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Feats serve the purpose of giving players extrinsic goals to work towards, which is a legitimate motivator for helping them get into the game. Not all feats do this well (junk like "light 1000 fires" is a perfect example of how its badly done, but the new Darkwalker feat is essentially how I think feats should work. not stuff you just get by playing the game a crapton) but it's a genuinely good thing to have.

Feats also provide a neat bit of customisation once you unlock enough of them. We could stand to have more, with more interesting differences to better accomplish this, but giving players an extra meta choice to assist them in areas they want, or to give them interesting playstyle differences, is a good thing IMO. For example, the firestarter feat giving you Lvl3 right off the bat helps players who find having to deal Lvl1/2 Firestarting too frustrating. It also helps give the game extra replay value and variance on different playthroughs.

 

Saying "eh, just bugger off to Custom mode" would remove these incentives that I do feel have a place in the game

With that said, I would actually like it if Custom mode had features similar to this (eg. being able to start out with specific levels in Skills), nor do I see a reason why Custom doesn't just give every Feat an on/off toggle instead of using the same Feats slots system, but I'm against doing that and essentially deleting Feats on top of that. I think Feats add genuine value to the game.

I would also like it if Feats weren't grindfests. Screw it, imma suggest an overhaul for each offending Feat:

Book Smarts: Research every book in the game at least once. Can be achieved between different playthroughs.

Cold Fusion: Survive outside for two weeks straight. Note that getting inside cars or sheltering in caves (without instanced interiors) counts as "outside", but remaining in porches or other enclosed spaces in the outdoors counts as "inside".

Efficient Machine: Survive 100 days in a single playthrough.

Fire Master: Keep any single fire going for three days straight. (very similar to the Deep Forest achievement, but works with indoor fires and the like too. This is designed to be fairly easy as Fire Master is a convenience Feat ideal for new players)

Free Runner: After leaving Broken Railroad into Forlorn Muskeg, make it to Desolation Point within 24 hours of game time. (I assume this challenge is reasonably possible if you just keep moving unencumbered especially if you mix in sprinting and fatigue-saving items, but if I'm mistaken one might have to tone it down to only visiting Coastal Highway)

Snow Walker: Visit almost every Region at least once. Does not count the Region you spawn into. Can be completed over multiple playthroughs, but visiting every Region in a single playthrough will instantly unlock this Feat.

Blizzard Walker: In a single playthrough, spend 24 total hours outside in blizzard conditions.

Expert Trapper: Hunt and kill every Animal (a Rabbit, Wolf, Bear, and Moose) at least once in a single playthrough.

Straight To The Heart: Stay awake for a week straight.

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16 minutes ago, Lexilogo said:

Feats serve the purpose of giving players extrinsic goals to work towards, which is a legitimate motivator for helping them get into the game.

Agreed. The concept of gaining experience by successfully completing tasks in game needs a resulting experience "buff". How such a 'feat' is implemented in the game is a worthwhile topic of discussion. IMO the gain might need to be more granular to avoid the tendency to grind for skill prior to enjoying the game.

Excellent ideas, @UpUpAway95, @Lexilogo

:coffee:

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12 hours ago, Ragwort said:

I love the idea by@Lexilogo to make the feat conditions less grindy. One small simplification: The Free Runner unlock condition could just be "complete the Hopeless Rescue challenge".

I'm all for making the Challenge badges meaningful in the game... but they shouldn't make the game easier, which is what the current feats do.  They are not an experience buff in the traditional sense... something that you earn during the course of a playthorugh and when you start a new run, you start again with 0 experience.  The current feats enable players to start runs with "already earned" experience buffs.  For example, the firestarting feat allows players to start with Level 3 firestarting skills... a skill that is otherwise earned by gaining XP in that area during the play of the game. 

Other feats, like Cold Fusion, effectively modify the game world.  (e.g. with the Cold Fusion feat, it's +2C warmer for that character at all times from the very start of the game).

IF the "thing" about standard game difficulties is to level the playing field for all players playing that difficulty, the current feats disrupt that and create an unlevel playing field when starting new runs between newcomers to the game and players who have played for a long time. For other games, it doesn't matter how many playthroughs I've done of the game, I start always at the same level as a newcomer to the game.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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In that case, the Free Runner unlock could be something like "Traverse 3 regions within 24 hours", rather than being a very specific task that kind of duplicates an existing challenge.

As an aside, I always thought the feats system was intended to help players move up a difficulty level, or give them confidence to do so.

Edited by Ragwort
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4 hours ago, Ragwort said:

In that case, the Free Runner unlock could be something like "Traverse 3 regions within 24 hours", rather than being a very specific task that kind of duplicates an existing challenge.

As an aside, I always thought the feats system was intended to help players move up a difficulty level, or give them confidence to do so.

That may have indeed been part of their intentions in the design, but I think fiddling around with the various individual settings in Custom mode accomplishes that purpose better... allowing the player to select setting for the areas they believe they need to practice on... with the added benefit of getting them out of the mindset of purely linear "difficulty levels."  Difficulty variances in this game are not linear (and the devs have intentionally made it so).  Difficulty comes from many different angles... Interloper is not, for example, more difficult than stalker in every aspect.  Stalker's wolves are more difficult than interloper's and more numerous.  Killing wolves is actually more difficult in Pilgrim because they run away from you, not towards you.  Furthermore, by increasing the detection range and increasing the player's smelliness, hunting can become quite a difficult challenge even though the animals don't attack you.  One can also set the game now to endless night and add in frequent blizzards and the qualitative nature of the experience changes entirely.

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