The pilgrim gamers

[Govner]

Ok so the new ash canyon, ok so hinterland have now taken it to far, we I started playing this game 4 years ago it was so enjoyable, now I don't expect everything to be easy but this new map is just absolutely PANTS!!!!   We don't care about the normal gamer that likes to play a few hours when home from work in the evening,  we will make this so annoying and hard so the guys love the hard maps can blast it in 3 days ,and go that was easy and not play again for a month!!! And the pilgrim player can wander about ash for 2 weeks and die. hinterland get a grip of yourself.....

[peteloud]

". . .this new map is just absolutely PANTS!!!!  "

What does that mean ?

[piddy3825]

35 minutes ago, peteloud said:

". . .this new map is just absolutely PANTS!!!!  "

What does that mean ?

Hey, I was curious too what he meant by that...
according to the slang dictionary I just looked up, it is a British saying for something that is trash, junk, rubbish or bullshit... 

...

Why do British say pants?

One of the answers here says that in parts of the UK 'pants' means not very good. The term comes from the children's rhyme “liar, liar, pants on fire” which was abridged to “pants” as a way to say you don't believe someone. So 'that's pants! ' is just another way of saying `bollocks!

[odizzido]

I think it's okay to have certain areas be more or less difficult than others. Personally I don't like dealing with forlorn muskeg so I never go there. But that's my personal preference. Not every area needs to appeal to every person, IMO.

[Anomaly53]

Really I always start in forlorn muskeg, hypothermia and blizzards make it more exciting and plus you can sometimes find a rifle there as well and while your at it you might as well get kitted up with a hatchet and knife and a heck ton of arrowheads all in the first few days but weak ice ugh. But seriously hush river valley my god that place is pants.

[odizzido]

Personally I like hushed river valley, minus needing a hatchet to get past a couple little bushes

[UTC-10]

I have not yet gone to Ash Canyon.  My preparations for the foray (and I have several sandboxes) has kept me busy.  I am not that much of an intrepid explorer, actually a rather cowardly one so I gather as much information about the place as possible.  I would admit that from what I have been seeing in others' explorations, Ash Canyon does not have all that much to offer mostly because of the difficulty of movement.  I find that climbing, even with crampons when I get them, is not my favorite way of getting around. 

That is not to say that there isn't a lot to see, but once past that and settling into an existence there, there really isn't that much.  Though that's just my subjective impression before getting there.  There will be a lot to explore and map. 

It would have been nice if some of the hints of things and structures in the graphics turned up in the region.  It might even have been interesting to be able to see but not reach them.  The broken bridge syndrome blocking access.  Tantalizingly close but not close enough. 😅  Oh, I can hear the complaints. 

[hozz1235]

@Govner:  A couple things:

1. Was AC your starting zone?  If so, you may want to pick an easier one to gear up.
2. You might want to consider a custom game.  You can make it even easier than Pilgrim.
3. Consider mods to make it even easier.

Edited January 20, 2021 by hozz1235

[Gracia_WolfSlayer]

I have a full time job, raise chickens and enjoy lots of hobbies. So I often only get to play TLD for an hour most days (or if I'm out of work sick I can splurge on 3 hours! Yay!)

Even so, I don't see an issue with certain areas being harder. Hell, Bleak inlet kicks my butt more often than not. I agree with @hozz1235 if it's giving you anxiety that you can't manage a new region (or new mechanic, whatever) Try a custom mode. If you tweak it right you can all but make yourself a god!

Good luck out there @Govner

[Haze]

Honestly the map is not even hard for I play on stalker. Just go to climbers cave and then to anglers den after looting up head  to the gold mine.

Here is a map to help

[hozz1235]

3 hours ago, Haze said:

Honestly the map is not even hard for I play on stalker.

I get so tired of these statements.  People are different!  Their playstyle is different!  Their skill is different!  Just because it's "not even hard" for you, does not mean this applies to everyone else!

[ManicManiac]

I mean... nothing is forcing anyone to go to Ash Canyon.
The player has to make the choice to go there.  If OP hates the region... then I'd say the simple answer is just for OP to not go to that region. 

I think that going on a tirade about how "Hinterland has gone too far..." or trying to characterize Hinterland''s creative choices as somehow intended to make players hate the game... is just bad form.

Edited February 1, 2021 by ManicManiac

[piddy3825]

2 hours ago, Haze said:

How could it be so hard in pilgrim??

consistently bad weather and low player stamina coupled with inadequate clothing and throw in a dash of limited easily accessible structures and you have a pretty tough nut to crack as a novice pilgrim player.  not everybody who plays TLD is a Stalker or Interloper level player, don't you know?

[ManicManiac]

@Ps4Methuselah

That is a rough set of circumstances (for that I feel for you).
However, to be fair...
The choice to pursue that achievement is one that the player makes.  That is to say that unlocking that achievement is not forced on the player, it's chosen by the player.  In choosing to go for that particular achievement, the player then is also implicitly choosing to accept the criteria for unlocking it.  Therefore, by wanting to get that achievement... the player is also choosing to go and map the requisite areas of Ash Canyon (along with all the other regions).   

Edited February 2, 2021 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

54 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@Ps4Methuselah

That is a rough set of circumstances (for that I feel for you).
However, to be fair...
The choice to pursue that achievement is one that the player makes.  That is to say that unlocking that achievement is not forced on the player, it's chosen by the player.  In choosing to go for that particular achievement, the player then is also implicitly choosing to accept the criteria for unlocking it.  Therefore, by wanting to get that achievement... the player is also choosing to go and map the requisite areas of Ash Canyon (along with all the other regions).   

No, the player was not implicitly choosing to go to Ash Canyon by choosing to get the achievement.  They obviously chose to get the achievement before Ash Canyon was added to the game.  Hinterland made the choice to add Ash Canyon to the game AND to require locations there to be surveyed in order to complete the achievement even when the file was started before Ash Canyon was created.  Hinterland could have freely and voluntarily made a different choice that would not have impacted players already in the process of acquiring the achievement.  There is a difference in "learning to live with a choice one makes themselves" and "learning to tolerate or adapt to a choice made by someone else."  This case is an example of the latter.

[ManicManiac]

12 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

This case is an example of the latter.

I don't think that's true. 
As requirements change for an achievement (to account for new content added to the game)... then the player can still choose whether or not to pursue it.

I think the choice is still the player's.  They can choose to adapt to the updated set of circumstances, or they can choose to abandon that particular goal if they would just rather not visit Ash Canyon.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

@Ps4Methuselah

No worries, I didn't think you were complaining at all.

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, Ps4Methuselah said:

To be honest, i laughed when i heard a new region was about to be released just hours before i was to get the achievement. Murphy's Law at its finest.

I wouldn't change it if i could though... Faithful Cartographer is for all of Great Bear & now that includes Ash Canyon.

Thanks for sticking up for me all the same...now i know why they call you up up and away...your like a superhero.

Thanks for thinking that... not really the case.  I'm anything but a hero.  I was actually watching the movie "Up" when I first made the name.  I've outlived my expectations of the time by a significant margin.

Manic and I have just been having a bit of a philosophical discussion on another thread about the nature of choice and I couldn't resist pointing this out as an example.   Hinterland basically removed the option you had chosen from the table.  They've done it with the Faithful Cartographer achievement every time they've added a new region to the game; but you've got it now so you should be good.  I got mine some time ago, but I'm still planning to do a complete remapping once all the episodes of Wintermute are finished... if I'm still around that is... I'm counting on it.

[Haze]

15 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

consistently bad weather and low player stamina coupled with inadequate clothing and throw in a dash of limited easily accessible structures and you have a pretty tough nut to crack as a novice pilgrim player.  not everybody who plays TLD is a Stalker or Interloper level player, don't you know?

There are also other that are hard to start in E.G: Hushed River Valley  and Timberwolf mountain they are harder because they have a great reward - high risk/reward.

Ash canyon is also one of these maps I don’t think the game expects you to go there straight away. 

It’s better to start in the neighbouring regions or easier regions like coastal highway or mystery lake.

After stocking up the player should not have such a tough time on these maps. 

 

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, Haze said:

There are also other that are hard to start in E.G: Hushed River Valley  and Timberwolf mountain they are harder because they have a great reward - high risk/reward.

Ash canyon is also one of these maps I don’t think the game expects you to go there straight away. 

It’s better to start in the neighbouring regions or easier regions like coastal highway or mystery lake.

After stocking up the player should not have such a tough time on these maps. 

 

The map at the start does tell us which zones are for beginning players and which are more difficult, so I agree, they don't expect beginners to start in zones like Hushed River Valley or Ash Canyon.  It's been a long time since I've done a "non-custom" start, so I'm not sure if the "random start" feature will start a player in one of more difficult zones if they are in Pilgrim.  I know that the default Interloper mode will not ever start the player in the "easy" zones (e..g Mystery Lake or Mountain Town).

[UpUpAway95]

14 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

I don't think that's true. 
As requirements change for an achievement (to account for new content added to the game)... then the player can still choose whether or not to pursue it.

I think the choice is still the player's.  They can choose to adapt to the updated set of circumstances, or they can choose to abandon that particular goal if they would just rather not visit Ash Canyon.

The choice of getting the achievement without going to Ash Canyon was deleted as an option when Hinterland chose to add Ash Canyon and not allow those who had already started towards getting the achievement to complete on the "original" terms.  They unilaterally changed the contract with the player regarding the acquisition of the achievement.  The choice the player has is whether or not to abandon the contract... It's not a choice (implicit or otherwise) to go or not to go to Ash Canyon.  In the terms of bridge... Hinterland made a "forcing bid."

Edited February 2, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[piddy3825]

4 hours ago, Haze said:

There are also other that are hard to start in E.G: Hushed River Valley  and Timberwolf mountain they are harder because they have a great reward - high risk/reward.

Ash canyon is also one of these maps I don’t think the game expects you to go there straight away. 

It’s better to start in the neighbouring regions or easier regions like coastal highway or mystery lake.

After stocking up the player should not have such a tough time on these maps. 

 

meh, most people might launch a game and spawn somewhere else and work their way to Ash Canyon after having fortified their character.  but a truly adventurous player would choose to randomly spawn on GBI considering the true essence of the game.    I personally find it much more of a challenge to select random spawning and take my chances on where I end up materializing in the world.  It seems crashing in a harsh remote area seems to be just a bit more realistic that way.  you know what I mean?  The player ends up working their ass off trying to stay alive, foraging and fighting their way thru the harsh wilderness only to finally find some decaying remenants of civilization.  Then comes that moment, that glimmer of hope, you loot your first cabin or shack and suddenly some hope has been restored...

[ManicManiac]

4 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

In the terms of bridge... Hinterland made a "forcing bid."

"In the card game contract bridge, a forcing bid is any call that obliges the partner to bid over an intermediate opposing pass. Owing to the partnership's bidding system or a bridge convention, partner must "keep the bidding open",[1] i.e. not pass, thereby preventing his left-hand opponent from ending the auction with a pass and enabling the "forcing bidder" to bid further." 

...I think that the context your using mischaracterizes the situation...

Look...
The badge is (and has more or less always been) a reward for mapping/surveying all the "named locations" on Great Bear Island in a single survival playthrough.  When a new region opens up on Great Bear, then it means there are more named locations... ergo, it's only right for the requirements for that particular achievement be updated to reflect that.  The fundamental requirement didn't change... but the scope did have to be expanded in order to fulfill that stated requirement.

I think it would be a little silly if the requirement was... "survey all named locations on Great Bear Island in one Survival playthoiugh..."  and then not have to survey all named locations on Great Bear Island. 

 

4 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

who had already started towards getting the achievement to complete on the "original" terms.

Original terms?
Do you mean back when the achievement was introduced (build v.423) and we only needed to map the named locations in Mystery Lake, Coastal Highway, and Pleasant Valley, Desolation Point, Timberwolf Mountain, and Forlorn Muskeg (those being the only regions at the time)?    ...because that was the "original" scope...

Are you positing that the achievement should ignore the 5 regions that have been added since that achievement's inception?  Because, I don't think it should.

 

4 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

The choice the player has is whether or not to abandon the contract

What contract?
I'm not sure what you are even talking about now... I don't think that earning an achievement in a video game constitutes a "contract." 

"noun: contract
a written or spoken agreement, especially one concerning employment, sales, or tenancy, that is intended to be enforceable by law.
or...
verb: contract
enter into a formal and legally binding agreement."

Did you and Hinterland sign a binding agreement that the requirements of achievements could not be updated?  ...because I don't think that was the case.

Also... the choice of whether to abandon the goal or not,  is... still... a... choice.     That's the entire point I was getting at from the start... so I will reiterate:

No one's forcing anyone to go to Ash Canyon, the player chooses whether or not to go there. 

I think that's really all there is to it.  The player can choose to go there, or they can choose not to... they can choose to try for the Faithful Cartographer achievement or they can choose not to...  Either way, I think it's evident that the choice is the players.

 

I know what you're trying to get at... but I think you're having to stretch pretty far and use what I would consider to be some odd mental gymnastics in order to get there.

I can respect your point of view on it... but I fundamentally disagree with you on your assertions.
We clearly don't agree on this, and that's okay.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ManicManiac

[Old Hermit]

a simple soution would be keeping the new areas non accessible on older saves, as it not existed yet, so to get that achievement u should map the areas u were available at that moment of creation.

new save, new area added.

 

idk if i'm clear. forgive my english

[Haze]

6 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

meh, most people might launch a game and spawn somewhere else and work their way to Ash Canyon after having fortified their character.  but a truly adventurous player would choose to randomly spawn on GBI considering the true essence of the game.    I personally find it much more of a challenge to select random spawning and take my chances on where I end up materializing in the world.  It seems crashing in a harsh remote area seems to be just a bit more realistic that way.  you know what I mean?  The player ends up working their ass off trying to stay alive, foraging and fighting their way thru the harsh wilderness only to finally find some decaying remenants of civilization.  Then comes that moment, that glimmer of hope, you loot your first cabin or shack and suddenly some hope has been restored...

Yeah I tried that I worked my way from ash canyon to mystery lake 

It is more challenging to start in ash canyon I agree but it’s fun

You just have to get a little bit lucky with the wolf spawns and the weather in the early game

if you want there is a rifle that always spawns in any mode except interloper that spawns very close to anglers den you must access it from the light blue shaded area way below the anglers den