Please add option to SAVE game in Survival

[Holden]

Alright, I'm pretty lit up so please consider the source of the following rant:

 

I really appreciate the help in locating my save-game file and I make backups right before I light up and pour the scotch - but now that I'm in the middle of a lovely Wednesday romp in the great Canadian wilderness I can't help but be annoyed.  I have to go through extra steps to perform a backup - so that I can save my game from the perils of walking off a cliff whilst hilariously inebriated.  All because some developer has decided how he wants me to play the game I purchased.  I mean, what the hell is that about?  If this was a multi-player game then sure, an iron-man mode is warranted, hell even necessary.  And if I were inclined to "challenge" myself I would simply elect to activate an iron-man mode (or just decide not to reload).

 

So, I'm sitting here bent and tilted out of my head and instead of enjoying the moment and seeing what would happen if I decided to throw rocks at a bear, I instead have to make sure I made a backup.  (I've had to resort to post-it notes on my monitor to assure myself that I have.)  So I can nosedive off a cliff into a bears jaws whilst throwing a rock and a flare at it and laughing my ass off.  And being inhibited from doing it a few times in a row to amuse myself piteously because I have to then restore a backup...

 

All because some damn fool thinks I should play a game a certain way - a SINGLE-PLAYER game.  MY game!  THE ONE I BOUGHT WITH MY HARD EARNED COVID MONEY!

 

How ridiculous.

 

/rant off

[gotmilkanot]

Seems like you just want something like god mode where you simply can't die. Sadly, there's no such thing in this game where death is permanent, and actions have consequences.

However, if you're just fooling around trying to "science" something, there's still save scumming which is not hard to do at all. Simply press Alt+F4 when you're in the midst of mauling BEFORE the game automatically saves after an injury. And when you go back into your save file, you'll be back at the previous save point.

You do lose some progress this way but if fooling around in a permadeath game is your pleasure then Alt+F4 might be your new best friend.

Edited January 6, 2021 by gotmilkanot

[Holden]

1 minute ago, gotmilkanot said:

Seems like you just want something like god mode.

Uh, no dude, quit trolling.  God mode would mean I can't die hilariously over an over - it wouldn't be funny.  A quick-load button however, would be the gift that keeps on giving.  Please don't pretend you don't get this basic concept.  Unless you're not pretending....  In that case - damn dude.

[gotmilkanot]

@Holden

How is a manual save system going to help in your scenario? You want to wrestle with a bear but not receive the injuries/death afterwards. The game AUTOMATICALLY saves for you after a bear mauling so the only way to escape this "unfortunate" event is by save scumming.

[hozz1235]

My name is hozz and I'm a Save Scummer.  Said.

I've created a .bat file and assigned it to a hotkey combo so I can:  Alt-Tab to get to my desktop, Hit Ctrl-Alt-C (my hotkey combo), Alt-tab back to the game and play on.

[Bean]

What I find especially fun about the current save game status is that you can run around doing stuff and killing things all day in the cold and then crash as soon as you enter a dwelling or lay out your bed roll to sleep and save.  Then all that stuff you did all day never happened!  All thanks to Hinterland’s inability to remove game crashing bugs that have plagued TLD since launch!  
 

[Admin]

Two posts removed. 

Please refrain from insulting other forum members. It is fine to disagree with them, or to clarify what you want, but not acceptable to attack them.

Thank you.

[Serenity]

31 minutes ago, Bean said:

All thanks to Hinterland’s inability to remove game crashing bugs that have plagued TLD since launch!  

I can only remember one crash. A few days ago. It was very surprising because it never happened before. The game is very stable

I also very rarely spend a whole doing stuff without entering a house or cave somewhere. It's simply too cold for that. So it's not a huge deal for me

 

Otherwise this thread has descended into pure childishness now. Best to ignore this nonsense

Edited January 6, 2021 by Serenity

[piddy3825]

 

On 1/5/2021 at 5:23 AM, Holden said:

Guys, this is killing me.  I like this game a lot, and I like to play in a less than sober state - a LOT.  Sometimes I just wanna see a bear rip me apart while I laugh then reload - and I can't because ironman mode is enforced, which is ridiculous.

 

Just let some of us lesser, drug addled peasants save our game so we can reload after doing something dumb for laughs please.  Pretty please?

lol, I feel your pain!

I don't know how many times I died on account I spilled my bong on my keyboard, 
or walked off a cliff autowalking whilst taking a big ole ripper of purple kush or spaceface.

Sometimes when I've been drinking and I'm playing and Will is complaining about shit, I sometime make him run and jump off a cliff to shut his ass up...
damn!  I wish I hadn't done that.

[RegentRelic]

The game is already not particularly difficult and the deaths it gives you are the emotional low point of the game that makes the desolation of the world feel more real, as well as allowing for that cathartic feeling  of the homely house. Not to mention create tension from your fear of dying again. Hinterland doesn't need to undermine their design vision because you suck sometimes.

[Holden_]

1 hour ago, RegentRelic said:

The game is already not particularly difficult and the deaths it gives you are the emotional low point of the game that makes the desolation of the world feel more real, as well as allowing for that cathartic feeling  of the homely house. Not to mention create tension from your fear of dying again. Hinterland doesn't need to undermine their design vision because you suck sometimes.

I guess I'm just doing it wrong then - I should endeavor to be just like you when I grow up then, right?  

 

How about instead of being a troll you just admit that an option for different types of players would be optimal - because not all of us can be as perfect as you oh great one.

[Admin]

Last chance for this thread.

1. We want to hear people's ideas, and views on when they think that we're doing something wrong.
2. We want to hear from people who disagree with them.
3. We would like everyone to realize that if you're on this forum it's because you enjoy playing The Long Dark and only want to see the best version possible of the game.
4. It's perfectly fine to have different opinions on what that "best version" would be, or what should be done to get there.
5. It's okay to say, "I disagree with you here's what I think..."
6. For the most part discussions here are based around opinion and subjective likes and dislikes. So remember that almost every statement has an implicit "In my opinion".
7. Even if you think someone is 100% wrong about all things relating to The Long Dark, that's not a reason to insult them, or even be mad at them. It would be like asking someone what their favourite ice cream flavour is and then yelling at them because they didn't say "rocky road".
8. Most threads aren't going to be resolved with someone saying "You're right and you win this debate".

We want to build a community here where people can give us honest feedback and not feel attacked, but also one where everyone from us as developers to you as players, are treated with respect. The gaming internet, and even just the internet in general, has a lot of places where you can go and call someone names because of their opinions or playing style. 

We want this to be different.

We'd also really like to achieve this with polite nudges as opposed to expelling people, so consider this a polite nudge.

Thank you.

[CedarJack]

I just wanted to say that having the option to have a casual mode as well as a survival mode would be great, rather than an option in the difficulty setting just having it as another mode.

My thoughts, casual mode perhaps wouldn't count for some achievements and could have separate stats, it would have save mechanics basically copied from story mode, you could essentially use all the other mechanics from survival and customisation too but it has a different save management system so that if the devs find other ways to make save scumming in survival harder, the people who do it will have less reason to be upset too.

It's pretty common for games to have both a standard mode and a permadeath mode and I think encouraging play in the permadeath mode with perks and achievements is great because it does gives people a new feeling they might not be used to, but I still think allowing this small choice expands the vocabulary of the game significantly, because there are many reasons to want to play an entirely safe version.

Example, for me I like to play before sleep and I really can't play this one because it'll keep me awake with the little adrenaline boost I get every time I mess up or get spotted by a predator (pilgrim would almost get rid of this problem but for me personally that also makes the game boring) so being able to not get a chemical cocktail for wolf barks and wildlife struggles or getting caught far from shelter and food in a storm but still have to deal with wolves unexpectedly discovering me and stalking me would be excellent, then I can spend my weekends on a custom interloper based survival game constantly paranoid and struggling and I then have two very different games for the price of one. 

I think people who like to take games more seriously and work hard deserve the achievements more than I do when I'm just having a relaxed game otherwise they wouldn't feel so much like achievements but I also think having both as an option that would open up the game more and make me want to spend more time on it instead of switching to a different before sleep game during the week.

[piddy3825]

how about just having a save feature for custom game launches?
seems to me that the feats and achievements are already disabled so no
conflict IMO regarding the purity and intent of the game as it was intended to be played.

So if I feel like goofing off and sticking my finger in a bears butt to get him to maul me 
after I've been drinking a few beers on a Saturday night, no harm no foul, right @Holden?

[Holden_]

7 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

how about just having a save feature for custom game launches?
seems to me that the feats and achievements are already disabled so no
conflict IMO regarding the purity and intent of the game as it was intended to be played.

So if I feel like goofing off and sticking my finger in a bears butt to get him to maul me 
after I've been drinking a few beers on a Saturday night, no harm no foul, right @Holden?

Well, yeah!

 

Look, if I pay for a game and I want to do a mountain of coke while beer-bonging a quart of Mickey's moments before licking my finger and sticking it in a wolf's ear, then reload and try sticking it somewhere else while cackling like a lunatic - shouldn't that be an option?  The devs can disable achievements if it really bunches their panties to know there are players (deviants) like me out there.  But it galls me that someone somewhere is trying to tell me how to play a game and how to properly "experience" it.  And I find it utterly staggering that a simple save-game option isn't available - almost as staggering as the users that think I'm in the wrong and that by adding an option - I'm somehow diminishing "their" game (if they're to be believed - which I doubt as it's pretty obvious when people are acting in bad faith {-trolls-}).

 

Some of you really enjoy the added challenge of perma-death, and I totally get it - but I'm not now, nor have I ever been that kind of a player - not in a single-player game anyway.  And this game - The Long Dark - is fucking brilliant!  The passion the devs must feel for this creation is evident in the amazing play - but I beseech them to understand that there are folks out there - like me - that are outside the normal conformity of what is generally considered their 'audience.'  And for them, us, me - I say that you can make this game even BETTER by allowing simpletons like me; drug addled middle-aged males that own their home, are retired, and just don't give a shit anymore; the OPTION to play a game in a way that truly makes me happy.  Please consider adding an option - not enabled by default - into your menu choice architecture for those of us who just don't fit the mold society wants to box us into.

 

Peace.

[Booch]

I started scumming about 300 days in my latest run.  Been playing for years but never actually got to the 500 day mark.  I am 11 days away.  I am concerned about the odd, not-my-fault events that could potentially kill me and don't want to start my game again, so close to the 500 day mark. 

Example below

  In Ash Canyon, on the path behind the waterfall, coming down the mountain, there is a lip that you have to get REALLY close to the edge to get up over.

On my other play-thru's I haven't scummed.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Booch

[manolitode]

I would not enjoy a TLD where I could save my progress, by the way that's not saying others couldn't. For instance, there have been difficult situations where I got annoyed with the game and exited. Returning to that save and being safe killed my excitement for that particular playthrough. Using lifelines simply makes this game unplayable to me. Reading the posts above it's clear many players don't share my experience and I'm not going to take an elitist standpoint saying my way is the only way. Only, if there was the option to sav, this would no longer be a game for me. 

[Holden_]

12 hours ago, manolitode said:

Only, if there was the option to sav, this would no longer be a game for me. 

What if it was an on/off toggle in the menu when choosing custom - in other words, the game would remain exactly the same as it is now, and would only be different for those of us who toggled the save option?  Would that be acceptable?  If not, why not - I'm genuinely curious.

[manolitode]

17 hours ago, Holden_ said:

What if it was an on/off toggle in the menu when choosing custom - in other words, the game would remain exactly the same as it is now, and would only be different for those of us who toggled the save option?  Would that be acceptable?  If not, why not - I'm genuinely curious.

I guess I disagree with the framing of the question. A TLD with the option to disregard permadeath would be far from what it is today. The premise of the game is even in it's name, permadeath is a valid part of their successful businessmodel. That's why I think they'll keep it.

Would it be acceptable to use homing golfballs on a golfcourse? If you enjoy it, why not. I think the fact that TLD takes time to master and that there's just no way around it is a key reason why I remain playing for years. With optional permadeath, TLD would be something else. In fact, there would be two different games: The Long Dark and The Not So Very Long Dark.

[Holden_]

A simple toggle - a switch if you will - in the menu that is off by default.  And when it's off it's the EXACT same game it is now.

 

Heck, you could even call the toggle "WUSS MODE" - would such a minor insignificant change be unacceptable to you?  That's my question.

 

(and please don't focus in on the concept of insignificant - no red herrings please)

[UTC-10]

Save on Demand versus Save on Event are sufficiently different that what would be involved would be a custom setting.  So enabling SoD would mean playing a custom game at the cost of no feat progress.  That cost may be insignificant because all possible feats were earned and only become a "problem" if a new feat was added later. 

If the vanilla game was SoE and a customized version was SoD, I do not think I would care.  If SoD floats a given player's boat, I am not going to put a hole into it and sink it.  If the devs decide to make the vanilla game SoD, and apply its effects to all games, I will live with it.  If they restrict SoD to new games, I will live with it when I start a new game and might even enjoy it.  SoD would certainly make certain forms of scum saving easier. 

I don't think the devs would make that kind of change anytime soon. Survival mode play with SoE is a fairly stable and known environment to them.  Once story mode is no longer a factor, they may go to SoD.

[hozz1235]

On 1/8/2021 at 11:33 AM, Admin said:

Last chance for this thread.

1. We want to hear people's ideas, and views on when they think that we're doing something wrong.
2. We want to hear from people who disagree with them.
3. We would like everyone to realize that if you're on this forum it's because you enjoy playing The Long Dark and only want to see the best version possible of the game.
4. It's perfectly fine to have different opinions on what that "best version" would be, or what should be done to get there.
5. It's okay to say, "I disagree with you here's what I think..."
6. For the most part discussions here are based around opinion and subjective likes and dislikes. So remember that almost every statement has an implicit "In my opinion".
7. Even if you think someone is 100% wrong about all things relating to The Long Dark, that's not a reason to insult them, or even be mad at them. It would be like asking someone what their favourite ice cream flavour is and then yelling at them because they didn't say "rocky road".
8. Most threads aren't going to be resolved with someone saying "You're right and you win this debate".

We want to build a community here where people can give us honest feedback and not feel attacked, but also one where everyone from us as developers to you as players, are treated with respect. The gaming internet, and even just the internet in general, has a lot of places where you can go and call someone names because of their opinions or playing style. 

We want this to be different.

We'd also really like to achieve this with polite nudges as opposed to expelling people, so consider this a polite nudge.

Thank you.

Hear, Hear!

[hozz1235]

23 hours ago, manolitode said:

I guess I disagree with the framing of the question. A TLD with the option to disregard permadeath would be far from what it is today. The premise of the game is even in it's name, permadeath is a valid part of their successful businessmodel. That's why I think they'll keep it.

Would it be acceptable to use homing golfballs on a golfcourse? If you enjoy it, why not. I think the fact that TLD takes time to master and that there's just no way around it is a key reason why I remain playing for years. With optional permadeath, TLD would be something else. In fact, there would be two different games: The Long Dark and The Not So Very Long Dark.

I don't understand how having the option to save or not would alter the game so much you would stop playing.  What about Custom mode, where although you can't save, could be configured to be really hard to die.

If you were an avid golfer, would you stop golfing because players chose to play their own, rated game while using homing balls?

[Booch]

I don't have very many posts here but I have been playing the game for a long time.  Just my two cents but I would postulate that a successful business model for anything, including video games, caters to the clientele.  In this scenario, as stated by hozz, a simple toggle switch for SoD vs SoE in Custom Mode would appease everyone.  This way, those who prefer permadeath would get what they want and those who desire the save function would also get what they want.  Everybody wins.  Thoughts?

[manolitode]

7 hours ago, Booch said:

Just my two cents but I would postulate that a successful business model for anything, including video games, caters to the clientele.  

Is it though? A successful businessmodel is one that keep making money over time. TLD has no addons, no subscription, no ingame purchases. While Hinterland is devoted to their community they still have to attract new players to gain income. My guess is as good as yours but changing the premise of the game by making it easier, its goals easier to attain, might change the game's status over time and thereby change the rate at which they attract new players. However the trend of making the game easier (eg mapping and rope climbs) could mean I'm wrong.