"Realism"

[Blitz4]

I just shared this in a thread on Steam called What other "realism" aspects would you like to see in the game?

My vote for realism:

Quote

Not being forced to walk in the direction my head is turned.

Strafing isn't walking. It's strafing.

ARMA3 does this and lets you keep situational awareness by holding in alt which prevents moving your view from changing the orientation of your character:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3DyRtMkRNI

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Blitz4

[AnotherColdDay]

How could this work for Consolegamers? I think all Players should have the same features. 

[Derek0311]

No issues with consoles.  It might not be the same but strafing can certainly be done.

[philthechamp]

This. I think that the vantage points/ pov could be tweaked and it would be an utter game changer. Even the pre-existing snow shelters just need to face better scenery. With most games the pan around while walking feature is kind of unnecessary but TLD could benefit a lot from it.

Also, I've thought about this when crafting at a campfire. Usually if you crouch you can get a somewhat decent angle of the scenery but you always have to look directly at the fire to cook and it totally restricts your field of view. What if you could interact with the fire while looking above it? Or what if "waiting for X to cook" automatically caused the camera to pan lower, giving you a clearer view of the landscape and weather? I think the cooking UI needs to be tweaked anyway but attention to the field of view realism could mitigate a lot of those issues and create better moments out of thin air...Little animations would be amazing. Like how if you first ignite a match before lighting a fire your character will throw it in. Imagine them visually using a tool like the Firestarter and the camera allowing you to pan around. It would be incredible, although likely quite the overhaul. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by philthechamp

[Kranium]

Some good ideas in there.

 

I'd simply like to be able to step over logs and other miniscule IRL "obstacles".

Should be able to use all fallen logs for firewood, also. That's mostly what I heat my home with IRL - deadfall.

Let us turn around to look out the back in vehicles!!!!

[odizzido]

I think for myself what I would most like to try is a realism overhaul. Real weights for items, a sane amount of weight to sprint up a mountain with, real calorie amounts for foods, sprains that are much more crippling but far less frequent, far far fewer animals which drop a realistic amount of meat, and home heating/insulation system because houses aren't magic warm boxes.

[Derek0311]

@odizzido Get out of my head.  I only have so much room up there to spare.

[Old Hermit]

What i see as a non-realistic feature, and that breaks immersion A LOT, is the inability to step over minor objects, as said @Kranium.

I think that there are several ways to make a level design really challenging (even nightmarish if dev wants), without using that kind of imposed device. Goods examples are the damaged rails pass, the dam narrow section with a  piece lacking, the wooden planks walk above the barn, and so on. No need to trip on snow or stones or whatever for challenge purposes.

Not to be able to raise the feet over a 20cm object is totally nonsense for me.

(Google translator in some parts)

[Dan_]

4 hours ago, odizzido said:

I think for myself what I would most like to try is a realism overhaul. Real weights for items, a sane amount of weight to sprint up a mountain with, real calorie amounts for foods, sprains that are much more crippling but far less frequent, far far fewer animals which drop a realistic amount of meat, and home heating/insulation system because houses aren't magic warm boxes.

Hinterland, please hire this man as a consultant or a psychic, 'cause he's either got great ideas that the passionate players share or he has tapped into my mind palace and is posting my thoughts.

[UpUpAway95]

I'm a realist... I just want them to finish the story mode before redoing everything in catering to the various "realism" requests of the players.  Then, start making TLD2 where they can revamp everything from the art style to game mechanics.

[Stoutlander]

9 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I'm a realist... I just want them to finish the story mode before redoing everything in catering to the various "realism" requests of the players.  Then, start making TLD2 where they can revamp everything from the art style to game mechanics.

I have to agree with this. Besides, walking in snow with the blowing snow and wind, wearing double layers of clothing while carrying a loaded pack, guess what, realistically you will be walking face first with your head tilted down. Just like in the game already.

[Blitz4]

The inability to step over small obstacles makes me look down at the obstacle. It then becomes a game of getting around that obstacle. It's similar the biggest puzzle mechanic in video games, the player character discovering a locked door. If you come across a locked door, you will be motivated to open it to see what's on the other side. I generally enjoy the mini-game of navigating around the obstacle, I haven't experienced many situations that caused me to say 'I need to be able to walk over that obstacle now'. They spent a lot of effort designing the maps to allow us to parkour over obstacles, giving us something fun todo. They also put up obstacles forcing us into areas we don't want to be.

On 1/5/2021 at 7:38 AM, philthechamp said:

This. I think that the vantage points/ pov could be tweaked and it would be an utter game changer. Even the pre-existing snow shelters just need to face better scenery. With most games the pan around while walking feature is kind of unnecessary but TLD could benefit a lot from it.

Also, I've thought about this when crafting at a campfire. Usually if you crouch you can get a somewhat decent angle of the scenery but you always have to look directly at the fire to cook and it totally restricts your field of view. What if you could interact with the fire while looking above it? Or what if "waiting for X to cook" automatically caused the camera to pan lower, giving you a clearer view of the landscape and weather? I think the cooking UI needs to be tweaked anyway but attention to the field of view realism could mitigate a lot of those issues and create better moments out of thin air...Little animations would be amazing. Like how if you first ignite a match before lighting a fire your character will throw it in. Imagine them visually using a tool like the Firestarter and the camera allowing you to pan around. It would be incredible, although likely quite the overhaul. 

Yes. I think about this often. When starting a fire or whatnot, I'm staring at a circle spinning. It reminds me of a tablet game, when I could instead be looking at my surroundings.

In the OP, being able to look around while you walk. I'm certain those that haven't experienced this, because it's only a few games that I know of: Arma3, PubG, Day-Z, Escape from Tarkov, Squad and a mod for Minecraft called 'Freelook' -- they would want to see this feature in more games. It seems that if a game has that feature, they call it 'Freelook'.

Issues that I see adding this feature aren't any listed so far in this thread, those issues seem to have been mostly about focus. Rather the issue I forsee would be primarily with animations, as you will see in the video below, how the player character model looks a bit odd in certain shots. But TLD doesn't show the player's model outside of the 2D inventory screen, so that shouldn't be an issue

 

What other issues might there be to look in a direction other than where you're facing? I've no clue. I just forsee the experience for the player to be better overall, just like the use case philthechamp mentioned.

It's also a feature within Unity. I dunno. I'd love to test it.

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Blitz4

[Old Hermit]

5 hours ago, Blitz4 said:

The inability to step over small obstacles makes me look down at the obstacle. It then becomes a game of getting around that obstacle. It's similar the biggest puzzle mechanic in video games, the player character discovering a locked door. If you come across a locked door, you will be motivated to open it to see what's on the other side. I generally enjoy the mini-game of navigating around the obstacle, I haven't experienced many situations that caused me to say 'I need to be able to walk over that obstacle now'. They spent a lot of effort designing the maps to allow us to parkour over obstacles, giving us something fun todo. They also put up obstacles forcing us into areas we don't want to be.

I agree, but only when the minigame is intended. And even then, there should be some coherence on what object is preventing u from moving. A tiny mound of snow, or even a mattress on the floor, should stop no one in the multiverse. Anyways, most of time is just a little tip of a branch pulling out of snow, or the snow itself which modeling had to be polished.

To my point of view, realism is about immersion. And something that breaks immersion that way becomes (to me) anything but realistic.

[odizzido]

Talking about not being able to step over twigs reminds me of this

 

[AnotherColdDay]

On 1/5/2021 at 3:05 PM, Derek0311 said:

No issues with consoles.  It might not be the same but strafing can certainly be done.

Which Button do you want to use for that? All Buttons on the controller are already in use.

[Blitz4]

6 hours ago, AnotherColdDay said:

Which Button do you want to use for that? All Buttons on the controller are already in use.

LeftBumper / R1 would be free look. Click LS/L3 is not being used.

Move Radial Menu to the D-Pad or to Click LS/L3 (assuming Right stick navigates the radial menu)

Then move something from the D-Pad to Click LS/L3 if needed, to me Drop Decoy is a good choice.

It could be refined further. How often do you reload? Crouch under the Click RS/R3 must be awkward. Cycle Light sources is a pain if you don't need the first light source that the game selects, in that case it's faster to select your light source through the radial menu. Then there's hold states & combos, ie: tapping pause opens the pause menu, but holding it for 500-1000ms will open the survivor panel. Another example: tapping equip weapon will cycle weapons, but holding it down will holster the weapon.

 

[AnotherColdDay]

8 hours ago, Blitz4 said:

LeftBumper / R1 would be free look. Click LS/L3 is not being used.

Move Radial Menu to the D-Pad or to Click LS/L3 (assuming Right stick navigates the radial menu)

Then move something from the D-Pad to Click LS/L3 if needed, to me Drop Decoy is a good choice.

It could be refined further. How often do you reload? Crouch under the Click RS/R3 must be awkward. Cycle Light sources is a pain if you don't need the first light source that the game selects, in that case it's faster to select your light source through the radial menu. Then there's hold states & combos, ie: tapping pause opens the pause menu, but holding it for 500-1000ms will open the survivor panel. Another example: tapping equip weapon will cycle weapons, but holding it down will holster the weapon.

 

Left Stick Press is used for Auto-Walk.
R1 is used for Radial Menu. U can't switch it to D-Pad cause of two reasons:

1. The trigger for the Radial Menu needs to be on the right side, cause you use the Left Stick to Navigate trough the Radial menu. U can't press D-Pad and move the left stick together.

2. The D-Pad is used for quick actions. Droping a decoy or pulling out a flare (Light Source) for example.

Maybe it wouldn't hurt so much, if we remove the actual left D-Pad function. Starting a fire is a forgivable if it could only be performed by the Radial Menu. This could actually work with Auto Walk and Look around with the Right Stick while pressing Left D-Pad. 👍🏻

What also would work is the Touch-Pad on the PS4 Controller. The swipe function is not used at all ATM. But this would mean, Xbox Players would not be able to have this function. So not ideal. 

Actually I really like your idea and if it would happen, I only see it working for all platforms with left D-Pad + Right Stick to look around.

Or you switch Auto Walk to the Left D-Pad and use Press L3 + Right Stick for Freelook. This would be the most attractive way to implement this feature on consoles. You can still auto-walk and you are able to walk freely around while performing freelook.

Edited January 8, 2021 by AnotherColdDay

[Blitz4]

On 1/8/2021 at 9:06 AM, AnotherColdDay said:

Left Stick Press is used for Auto-Walk.
R1 is used for Radial Menu. U can't switch it to D-Pad cause of two reasons:

1. The trigger for the Radial Menu needs to be on the right side, cause you use the Left Stick to Navigate trough the Radial menu. U can't press D-Pad and move the left stick together.

2. The D-Pad is used for quick actions. Droping a decoy or pulling out a flare (Light Source) for example.

Maybe it wouldn't hurt so much, if we remove the actual left D-Pad function. Starting a fire is a forgivable if it could only be performed by the Radial Menu. This could actually work with Auto Walk and Look around with the Right Stick while pressing Left D-Pad. 👍🏻

What also would work is the Touch-Pad on the PS4 Controller. The swipe function is not used at all ATM. But this would mean, Xbox Players would not be able to have this function. So not ideal. 

Actually I really like your idea and if it would happen, I only see it working for all platforms with left D-Pad + Right Stick to look around.

Or you switch Auto Walk to the Left D-Pad and use Press L3 + Right Stick for Freelook. This would be the most attractive way to implement this feature on consoles. You can still auto-walk and you are able to walk freely around while performing freelook.

I dig it. After thinking more about it, I imagine that the main issue is the character model and animations. Yes as I said there isn't a character body, but there is character arms. If those arms that we see aren't complete arms and any of the animations for them were done to show us all we needed to see, meaning the artist might not have created shoulders or upper arms for some animations. This could be solved by creatively hiding the characters arms when they are holding in that 'freelook' button, clearly testing is needed.

I'm super curious what the game would feel like with it. Sometimes I feel like I'm slaloming down a hill by strafing left, then right, and left and right and my mouse is the choreographer. Yes you get used to it, we all got used to it, it was in the first fps games back in the 90's. It limits your field of view to your in-game horizontal fov + 90 degrees. So if set to fov to max (100) + 90, you get 190 degrees max field of view. Now People can see up to 195 degrees + 180 by turning their heads = 375 degrees. So in real life we can see double what we're able to see in fps games using the strafing lookaround mechanic.

There's a better way that can give us that 375 degrees and it also makes it difficult to go back to the strafing method once it's tested for themselves.