Risky Meat

[dbmurph22]

Hi all,

First, the title is clickbait.  I expect many players to click in here and be like "we already have that you fool!" Yes, there's plenty of risky eats to be had in this game in low condition.

But I mean the other way. I've mentioned it a bit verbally but let's talk about the risky meat in terms of that left outside in the chill of the outdoors to be preserved as best as possible.  Right now, it's not risky.  You can leave piles of the stuff everywhere.  This is maybe an old subject but I wanted to readdress it.

Of course, the game is great but I think at some point it might be a nice addition to have that meat at risk of disappearing if left out (ie grabbed by nearby creatures). Or maybe at least the toggle to have that feature going.  Now, it may be too much to ask some really nice simulation of being able to watch actual animals come in and snag them.  But I think you could also have that in the game in which they start disappearing, like after you sleep or pass time.

On the opposite side, you could, at some cost, create something in the cold to preserve them. The current rock cache is too high price to pay even if you implement the meat disappearing.  My first thought would be some smaller collection of rocks, or something you could craft (workbench, no forge) or maybe a bit of both (rocks plus a small tool to craft).  To me that creates a cost/benefit or an alternative path of risk/benefit if you just leave meat out in the open.  

I dunno, I'm not not zealous on any of this or the idea, but I wanted to throw it out there and welcome any other ideas or thoughts on the matter.

Here are my principles when thinking of new game ideas:

• 1) theme/immersion/game DNA - how much does this idea match what TLD is about and its theme, some vein of realism etc
• 2) implementation - how easy is it to put this in the game for the benefit it gives (obv ultimately the devs know this exactly)
• 3) maintenance/resolution/adjudication - how easy is it for the game to process this game element in an ongoing way for the benefit it gives (obv ultimately the devs know this)
• 4) game strategy/tactics - how much does it add to game theory in terms of decision making, choices, game strategy
• 5) importance - I add this to rule out minutiae.  Lots of ideas are fiddly with no greater purpose than to serve themselves.  So I try to think of ideas that feed other elements and have a bigger sense of things.

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A bit long post - apologies for the long read.  Look forward to any thoughts on this idea, or anything else I wrote (ideas for the game in general, etc).

All the best everyone and hope you're enjoying your recent plays

Murph

Edited December 18, 2020 by dbmurph22

[Fuarian]

I could've sworn the meat bags I left by my quarter got stolen by the local wolf pack. But if meat could be stolen at your doorstep, that would be cool. And you'd have to store it in containers to protect it completely. If you don't, animals will come and get it (obviously) but ALSO it would attract animals to your area. Including bears. Until the meat is gone (if they haven't gotten it). And if you repeatedly put meat outside, animals will begin to frequent the area expecting more. This gives players an incentive to move bases every once in a while, or keep meat inside. 

[UpUpAway95]

I think if they would implement 0% meat (cooked or not, stored in containers or not) would solve this issue since more people would be inclined to make use of available containers.  They could also add a "stick cache" to the game, which would not be as onerous to make as the current stone cache.  Meat stored outdoors in containers or in the caches would degrade significantly more slowly than meat stored indoors.  This would protect meat from being taken by predators, but it would still disappear whenever it reaches 0%.  This would eliminate the mad dash mentality about reaching cooking level 5 and would also prevent players from stockpiling huge amounts of meat to be eaten after cooking level 5 is reached.

[s7mar7in]

16 hours ago, dbmurph22 said:

it might be a nice addition to have that meat at risk of disappearing if left out (ie grabbed by nearby creatures)

Great post @dbmurph22, often discussed topics like this are indicative of a valuable idea.

What seems an important part of the food storage mechanic is the need to preserve and protect a cache of food from wildlife, we all expect this to be a part of the game and there are numerous posts questioning if it is possible that food was "stolen" by wildlife. To my mind what is needed is a way to signal the player that food has been lost in the event this occurs in the game, (perhaps animal tracks and meat scraps or ripped and empty quartering sacks in the snow). If this is too much work for development team, perhaps a Journal entry similar to the statistic for "decoys".

16 hours ago, Fuarian said:

I could've sworn the meat bags I left by my quarter got stolen by the local wolf pack.

I'm feeling the same way @Fuarian, but it could also be the sacks of meat simply decayed and disappeared from the game. The ripped empty quartering sacks would add a lot to the game and also reduce the confusion of why the stored meat is lost.

3 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

This would eliminate the mad dash mentality about reaching cooking level 5 and would also prevent players from stockpiling huge amounts of meat to be eaten after cooking level 5 is reached.

I agree this could be improved @UpUpAway95, seems that 0% should be reserved for "ruined quality" and not be useful because of cooking skill. This is only an issue because of the logic that zero means zero...but it would be very nice to see a new rating used, (perhaps something indicating rancid last resort calories).

[UpUpAway95]

I disagree with the "tracks" being a significant factor.  Tracks are designed in this game to disappear after a very short time (they even disappear while following them after wounding an animal).  Frozen rabbits already disappear from snares and the snares are left ruined.  This already suggests that the rabbits are being stolen by wildlife if the snare is left unattended for too long.  Game mechanic-wise, perhaps it is that the condition of the rabbit reaches 0% and it despawns. 

I like the idea of a "ripped" bag being left behind if quartered meat is left too long (again, it can suggest it was taken by animals but the mechanic could still be the condition of the bag reaching 0%).  This "stolen" assumption could still be made by the player then if raw or cooked meat left outside reaches 0% condition AND disappears instead of hitting a "ruined" state or an "last resort calories" state.  This elimination of meat lasting in the game world forever would eliminate the mentality of being able to stockpile large amounts of meat for the later game and mean that players would simply have to continue to hunt for what they need to eat throughout even a long run.  This would also enhance the mechanic of it getting tougher to find animals to hunt as the game progresses (i.e. the setting that slows wildlife spawns over time that currently exists in the game).

If, however, some sign of animal theft is desired, then perhaps a new "ruined scraps" item could be left behind... able to be picked up by the player but not consumed.  If the "ruined scraps" is then put into a container, it disappears like other ruined items (e.g. sewing kits).

ETA:  So, here's an idea:  Food left indoors decays the fastest and disappears at 0% regardless of where it is stored.  Food left outside in the open decays the next fastest regardless of whether it is cooked or uncooked and is replaced by "ruined scraps" or ripped bags or ruined snares as described above when its condition hits 0%.  Food stored outdoors in caches decays more slowly, but will still hit 0% and despawn with the cache becoming "ruined" as well (signifying a larger animal breakin.  Any non-food items and food items not at 0% will remain recoverable.  Food stored outdoors in "animal-proof containers" like metal boxes or car trunks will not ever hit 0% condition, but will cap at 1% (safely edible with cooking 5 but risky at lower cooking levels) acknowledging that the animals cannot break into such containers.

Edited December 18, 2020 by UpUpAway95

[dbmurph22]

Thanks for the replies everyone.  Really great thoughts.

Yeah I think I've had some meat taken at times, and some quartering (though I rarely quarter).  Maybe it degraded?  But I can think of one time that was pretty fresh where I got smelly and one disappeared I think.

Fuarian, I like the idea of left out meat getting animals to start coming in.  I don't know though - that does add an extra complexity with animal behavior.  I really like the thought though.  Also sometimes you want them to come.  But losing the meat is a price to pay as it is.

UUA, I think you're right about the 0% meat.  If they ever decide to do this, they should address the 0% meat as well.  "Piles of Meat" is sort of a later game issue as well, especially if multiple.  Anything to reduce the whole 0%/Cooking5/stockpile game would improve late game play.

I like the indicator thoughts as well (thanks s7mar).  The consideration of an extra icon or item (ruined scraps, torn q bags) is good too.  I'm not sure if an existing one could be used (yeah tracks are good but tricky as stated).  I was thinking maybe more blood spatter, but may be tough to differentiate from initial kill spatter.  There are some bones maybe?  The 1% min cap for an outside container is solid too - as long as the container has a compelling storage limitation (combined with an also compelling demand to create the container).  I think those are things to think about outside of the 1% idea too, but that brought me to that thought.

I think these are all reasonable considerations that comes with strong respect for the current game, not a bunch of whimsy.  It would be cool if they could get considered seriously.

Thanks all - feel free to keep throwing out thoughts.

Edited December 18, 2020 by dbmurph22