Lost my best save


ThePhoenics

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Just lost my 250+ day save. SO disappointed, one simple mistake of hitting sleep when I didn't realise I was bleeding out, as I was haemorrhaging condition after a wolf struggle. 

I always respected the whole permadeath aspect, but honestly losing so much progress is absolutely heartbreaking, and I feel makes the game worse for it, the save being simply deleted instantly. Sure, it emulates real life and death is a constant risk and caution should be taken in all regards, sure it makes the whole game tense, but does anyone actually enjoy the feeling of having everything they spent literally hundreds of hours of their lives working on erased instantly? Perhaps if you ARE about to die (Like from trying to sleep while bleeding out), give a warning prompt? like sure, disable achievements, call me a cheater and a savescummer, but please just let me continue telling my story, as all video games have done since the very inception of gaming. There is no glory or enjoyability in losing hundreds of hours of effort. 

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I understand your opinion, but I respectfully disagree.

Personally, I think that if a player decides to go to sleep and forgets to tend a bleeding wound... then that's a fair death.

My opinion...  that is to say, I think:
This is a game that requires players to pay attention to what they are doing.
It's a game that has real consequences for mistakes (and sometimes just misfortune).
It's a game that was (to use Raph's words), "we don't want to make a game that's going to hold the player's hand."

These are all things that (for me) make it the best game I consistently play (even after 6 years, I still play almost daily).
That the game is willing to punish mistakes, gives the player a big incentive to always pay attention.


:coffee::fire:
This kind of thing has been discussed quite a bit in the past (I'll echo some of my previous posts):
"I can see what you mean.  While I thoughtfully nod and say, "yeah, that's true..."  I'm still just not a fan of "bail out" mechanics.

I tend not to mention it until I see posts about wanting to have more "safety nets" added to the game to save a player from their mistakes.  This is when I start discussing about how for a game that (I feel) was fundamentally build on not holding the player's hand to start implementing this kind of hand holding; I think undermines the rest of the experience that the team has built. 

I only talk about it because I know this could easily be a slippery slope.  [text removed for brevity]  I would just hate for that to happen, when the simpler solution would be for the players to pay more attention."

Also:

On 2/18/2020 at 12:19 AM, ManicManiac said:

we should accept the consequences of our actions.  I think the better solution is for a player to pay more attention to what they are doing.  Sure, that takes time and practice, but I think that's better than asking a developer to add "safety net" mechanics.  Yes, sometimes things can go wrong through no fault of one's own... but at the same time I'd say, "That's life sometimes." 

One of the things I respect about this game, is that sometimes bad things happen... sometimes it's our fault, sometimes it's not... but either way we have to deal with it.  The game's not going to rescue us.

On 4/10/2020 at 3:20 AM, ManicManiac said:

I would not be in favor of something like this at all.  I've never liked the idea of adding more player "safety nets" to this game... I think the last thing the game needs more hand holding mechanics.  I think part of what I like so much about this game is that it's not afraid to make us have to deal with the consequences of our actions... on in this case, inaction.

On 9/12/2019 at 12:08 AM, ManicManiac said:

To me, it's a lot like all those folks who want the game to wake them up if they did something foolish that would cause them to die in their sleep.  I think the last thing this game needs are safety nets that serve only to save players from themselves.  Like wise, making it so it's not so important to worry about if your fire goes out because, "eh, I'll be warm enough..." feels cheap and easy.  That's not what I think we need in this game.  If I need fire, and I don't plan well enough ahead... then when I freeze to death, it's my own fault and it's a fair death.

On 11/22/2019 at 9:33 PM, ManicManiac said:

I don't want things in the game that act as safety nets or hand-holding measures that would seem to exist just for the sake of saving the player from themselves (shielding a player against the consequences of their own bad decisions or foolish actions).

 

Edited by ManicManiac
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I understand your feelings, but like ManicManiac I respectfully disagree.  The first time you lose a long save, it hurts absolutely... crushes you to the bone.

However, honestly the best parts of playing this game come early on in the save... when opening every container can elate you or deflate you totally.  When danger lurks around every corner and you don't have any great means to defend yourself.  When you really feel reluctant to drop that 40% tuna tin because it's the only food you have right then.  After your basic needs are met, the game starts to feel a bit tedious  anyways... when it starts to feel like the only thing that might kill you is making a dumb mistake.  If the game warned me about those dumb mistakes so I could avoid death, continuing on with that file save would feel pointless.  I would know in my heart of hearts that I did not actually survive on my own, but that the game stepped in and held my hand.... so, I'd want to start over right then and there to see if I could get further on my own anyways.

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I mostly play on the PS4 so my saves go poof when I die and I’ve died a lot.  I’ve lost track of the number of 100+ day sandboxes who have died to unexpected circumstances or just carelessness.  

I sympathize because it really does hollow you out when a character you’ve spent weeks developing dies and everything you did is now gone.  

I spent half an hour staring at the stats screen after one vicious death to a pack of timberwolves in BI when I foolishly ventured out at night in an Aurora. 180 days on that one.  All the things about that sandbox I was keeping track of in my head were suddenly worthless, meaningless, and irrelevant.  
 

I think I sat there just trying to dump it all.  
 

But I don’t want it to change.  TLD is unique and the danger of total deletion is what makes it worth playing.

give yourself a couple of days or even a week off.  Then see if you don’t get that old itch to start a new survivor in some new and interesting zone.  
 

start one on TWM!  That’s my favorite starting spot in anything but Loper.  Summit as fast as possible!  Best I have done so far is one day and three hours from birth.  Sure decked him out in some great gear after that!  Twinked the hell out of him!  

 

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I love the fact that you can’t take it back in this game. I’ve cried after losing long sandboxes. I lost a 159 day one last month where I had literally just Billy goated down from the twm summit, finally, with my two expedition parkas, +30C clothes, when I got to the bottom, Mr. wolf the jerktacular was waiting, mauled me. Used my last bandage, and while I was applying it, heard Tiffs Bane the maul-tastic bear bellow and yep, before I’d even had a day with my parkas I got double mauled and eaten by a bear. And you know what? I think that was kinda awesome. This game makes you pay for cutting corners and rushing. Decisions have consequences. I’d never change that. I’ve been addicted to it for over three years now. 
 

Although no matter how hard I try, I just can’t resist rage shooting the bears in the butt while they’re walking away after mauling me. Cause screw that bear.

 

Tiff🦋

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34 minutes ago, Ps4Methuselah said:

I use to be in the " permadeath forever " camp,... but times have changed.

 covid19 has changed the world.

People are more depressed now than ever, locked down, lonely, desperate.

The Long Dark may be the only source of escape for some,... now imagine playing a single save for months, no friends... loved ones sick or on ventilators. Christmas time is statistically the highest rate of depression, substance abuse & unfortunately... suicide.

I believe it is time for Raph & his team to change The Long Darks obligatory permadeath with an option to cheat death by continuing a game with feats & achievements disabled.

Remember all the back & forth about mashing the button in wolf struggles?

Not much being said about that since the option to press & hold was introduced.

Thank You Hinterland for listening.

In closing i would like to thank Raph & the whole Hinterland team for giving all of us such a wonderful world where i have personally sent thousands & thousands of hours.

Giving Long Darkians the option to cheat death would make this holiday season just a little brighter... we really need to stay positive in these troubling times.

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to all

 

 

I'd be OK with a toggle to turn the file deletion of without feats for achievements active PROVIDED the player had to decide that before ever starting the file.  It coudl then become just one more of the various custom settings that can be manipulated before starting a character.  No changing to it after the fact just because something went badly.

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If a person chooses to make the game easy for themselves before they start, that's their conscious choice and they should be allowed to make it.  Lots of people out there are playing with limitations/disabilities and so giving them easier modes within games enables them to attempt them and, potentially, enjoy them.  Lots of people suffered from depression and isolation for various reasons before covid came along; and depression isn't the only "disability" out there.  Other people have no right to say that someone is "cheating" by customizing their gameplay using legitimate toggles nor to try to tell them they have to play on a harder difficulty in order to enjoy a single-player game.

What I'm against is people starting in over their heads for bragging rights and then copping out (i.e. changing their minds) just because the going got tough.  Do you think people are going to acknowledge that they died and respawned when they talk here about their 500-day loper saves (i.e. the saves they started on loper but continued with the achievements disabled)?  I say, accept the death and the save deletion... and then start again (on an easier mode, if necessary).

People here have gone in excess of 500 days without dying once on full-blown loper and even, I believe, while doing the deadman challenge.  They've already earned the 500-day achievement, so I don't really know what you're going on about there.  Achievements are a one-time deal and some can already be earned on pilgrim (I earned most of mine on one of my early Pilgrim saves).  I'm not sure whether it is still the case, but it used to be you could still earn achievements on a custom game.  I think they should be disabled for all custom games (if that hasn't been changed already).  They could perhaps introduce a couple of special "custom game" achievements for blends of certain unusual settings.  Badges, for the most part, were awarded for completing the special challenges and those only have one difficulty... either you complete the challenge or you don't.

 

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On 12/14/2020 at 6:51 AM, ThePhoenics said:

There is no glory or enjoyability in losing hundreds of hours of effort. 

Since I'm going through a posting in the forum phase the only thing I'd like to add to this discussion is to the above quote.  You didn't lose hundreds of hours of effort, because it was done.  You can't lose what you experienced.  For all the other things that you haven't lost according to your definition, what are you going to do with them?  What is done with all the long saves in all the games.  When the time comes that a game is no longer played and you have an epic save in there, what happens to it?  I'd actually be interested in this answer - "What happens to epic saves when a game dies?"  There could be a special place for all I know.

That said, I don't want to make too light of it.  I know it's painful to lose a run like that and it makes you not want to play again.  But hopefully you will, and when you do and feel okay to do so, I think the scar of this may add to the next run.  We all have meta-scars....those bandages are going to give you a tinge whenever you see one now, just like there are other random places on the map where people get a bit of tachycardia based on previous disasters.

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On 12/15/2020 at 3:05 AM, TiffTastic said:

 

Although no matter how hard I try, I just can’t resist rage shooting the bears in the butt while they’re walking away after mauling me. Cause screw that bear.

 

I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one who hates that bear. I can't count the times that thing has got me. I need to get a rifle and teach him a lesson someday, haha.

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On 12/14/2020 at 1:51 PM, ThePhoenics said:

Just lost my 250+ day save. SO disappointed, one simple mistake of hitting sleep when I didn't realise I was bleeding out, as I was haemorrhaging condition after a wolf struggle. 

I always respected the whole permadeath aspect, but honestly losing so much progress is absolutely heartbreaking, and I feel makes the game worse for it, the save being simply deleted instantly. Sure, it emulates real life and death is a constant risk and caution should be taken in all regards, sure it makes the whole game tense, but does anyone actually enjoy the feeling of having everything they spent literally hundreds of hours of their lives working on erased instantly? Perhaps if you ARE about to die (Like from trying to sleep while bleeding out), give a warning prompt? like sure, disable achievements, call me a cheater and a savescummer, but please just let me continue telling my story, as all video games have done since the very inception of gaming. There is no glory or enjoyability in losing hundreds of hours of effort. 

Yeah that sucks and is unecessarily annoying. But unfortunetly it happens, so you should  try and share that warning system idea to the community and devs, it would deffinitly be an improvement to the game :) . In the mean time try to create another save maybe you ll find it a refreshing to start a new untouched World :). Good luck !!

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Oh boy. I just discovered this game on xbox one. Love it  been playing for a week now. Just died after 19 days on survival mode. Came here to complain and see if maybe I missed something. LOL. After reading thread I get it. Not sure I agree but i get it. For a casual gamer (hour or two a day over holiday break) would be nice to have the option to save. Guess I have alot to learn about the game tho. Loving it so far!

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On 12/14/2020 at 3:51 PM, ThePhoenics said:

does anyone actually enjoy the feeling of having everything they spent literally hundreds of hours of their lives working on erased instantly? 

Your disappointment makes perfect sense, we've all forgotten about a wound and gone to sleep... forever. There's no such thing like a convenient or well-timed death in this game. There have been plenty of times when I've said "ok that's it, that was the last time", but then a few minutes later I'm like "okedokey I'll play one more round". Cause we keep coming back, like the single-minded and stubborn folks we are. I absolutely think we should keep permadeath and I will eat my hat if you do the same mistake in your next playthrough. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey all, firstly major thanks for all your interesting and thoughtful responses, and I am so glad I could kindle such great conversation, I love this community ❤️

So I couldn't stay away any longer and began a new save, still on my preferred difficulty of Stalker (I would go interloper but guns add a huge amount of depth to the game for me)! New goals and ambitions, new plans and a better structure of what I plan to prioritize and where I want to go! The Long Dark really is one of those games that is endlessly replayable, just because of that combination of sheer tension, and the thrill of making the right decisions in the worst situations, even to be just rewarded with continued life, it truly rewards patience and tactical thinking. 

 

On 12/19/2020 at 6:45 AM, dbmurph22 said:

Since I'm going through a posting in the forum phase the only thing I'd like to add to this discussion is to the above quote.  You didn't lose hundreds of hours of effort, because it was done.  You can't lose what you experienced.  For all the other things that you haven't lost according to your definition, what are you going to do with them?  What is done with all the long saves in all the games.  When the time comes that a game is no longer played and you have an epic save in there, what happens to it?  I'd actually be interested in this answer - "What happens to epic saves when a game dies?"  There could be a special place for all I know.

That said, I don't want to make too light of it.  I know it's painful to lose a run like that and it makes you not want to play again.  But hopefully you will, and when you do and feel okay to do so, I think the scar of this may add to the next run.  We all have meta-scars....those bandages are going to give you a tinge whenever you see one now, just like there are other random places on the map where people get a bit of tachycardia based on previous disasters.

This really struck me, firstly about losing a save like that being treated as a scar for future runs, and I could not possibly agree more! At the heart of it, TLD is a game that is progressed by requiring the player to learn. Easier difficulties, warmer clothes, better tools, hundreds of bullets and a perfect shelter may let you survive, but none of it will be of any value if the player does not learn how to make the strictest best use of all these things. It may be a bit of a tired comparison, but this reminds me of the true beauty of the Dark Souls franchise: they're very difficult games, but not unfair, and can be easily beaten with patience and player learning. That is what really makes this game special. For example, now whenever I get in a risky situation, I will ALWAYS check my wounds before sleeping! Also I should have been much less stingy with emergency hypos lmao. On your other point, you are exactly right in that I didn't /lose/ anything, really all that happened was my story ended before I was ready. The point you make about saves hanging around after a game is no longer played makes me feel true game-library guilt though lol I think for TLD it is a bit different, because this game really is something I truly believe I will always play, it occupies that special place in my library that some people have with Elite Dangerous or Truck sim games, that one game that I will always return to because it is the only one of its kind to give me that kind of relaxing feeling. 

 

On 12/17/2020 at 12:51 AM, Ps4Methuselah said:

You see my friend, that is exactly why i have have always been against disabling Permadeath.... up until covid19.

If you have a toggle ahead of time to make it a safe game then you remove the key ingredient that makes The Long Dark uniquely repayable,... tension.

If we reverse engineer your answer, then we are cooking with gas.

We exploit what makes TLD so awesome.... Risk & Reward. You would no longer receive achievements and badges at the moment they are earned, rather at the end of a game.

When the screen goes dark & the game asks you if you would like to accept your fate & receive all achievements & badges, or would you like to cheat death & give them all back to keep playing a custom game.

As an add bonus, they could make a new badge for anyone that willingly goes into The Long Dark after 500 days survived or more....

The Lionhearted Badge; for bravery & courageous actions taken that led to your npc's demise.... an automatic stim boost anytime your npc's life drops below %15 for a total of 9 times.

What do you think my friend?

Would this make dieing in TLD a little less harsh?

 

This gave me chills, not gonna lie :D What a lovely idea, maybe even just autoapply a stim as long as a player carries one with them at that condition threshold? that would be awesome! 

 

I was so depressed after losing my save, but as UpUpAway said: 

On 12/15/2020 at 12:48 AM, UpUpAway95 said:

However, honestly the best parts of playing this game come early on in the save... when opening every container can elate you or deflate you totally.  When danger lurks around every corner and you don't have any great means to defend yourself.  When you really feel reluctant to drop that 40% tuna tin because it's the only food you have right then.  After your basic needs are met, the game starts to feel a bit tedious  anyways... when it starts to feel like the only thing that might kill you is making a dumb mistake.  If the game warned me about those dumb mistakes so I could avoid death, continuing on with that file save would feel pointless.  I would know in my heart of hearts that I did not actually survive on my own, but that the game stepped in and held my hand.... so, I'd want to start over right then and there to see if I could get further on my own anyways.

The first few weeks are always the most exciting of the game, when resources are plentiful and skills are low. Can't wait to get those precious firelighting and cooking skills to level 5, I actually clean forgot about tinder and intestinal parasites lmao

I still maintain that the game needs SOME kind of additional mechanic for handling the continuation of saves after death, whether it is a toggle on save creation (Ironman mode or savescum mode lol), or simply allowing saving to be enabled in survival as is possible in story mode, obviously only as an option, for those who wish to still use the standard permadeath model (which is absolutely without question the intended way to play the game, and I will acknowledge that optional difficulty modifications like saving  or other similar things like this have enormous and broad reaching consequences for both the game and player experience; however that is a discussion for another day). I do agree that this game is completely unique in the way that it does not handhold the player, and that should definitely be preserved, but having an optional mode or toggle during save creation should not take away from that. 

 

For reference, since everyone else shared their stories of how they all faded into the long dark, I had just entered Ash canyon not a few days before I perished. I was out exploring cautiously and mapping the area since it was brand new. I was very daring and went directly North East from the anglers den where I had made my base. While out exploring, I was ambushed my a moose from behind a huge boulder, and without thinking I immediately drew my revolver and shot at it out of desperation, since it was so close and I felt REALLY attached to my unbroken ribs. To my absolute shock, one single revolver shot to the brain downed the mighty majestic beast, giving me more meat than could be carried, and a wealth of gut and hide to hoard at my base. I took a moment to admire my kill, dragged the thirty-odd kilos of moose flesh to the nearby cliffside cave and began the most mighty of barbeques to have ever been seen. after about a week solid of sleeping, cooking, skinning, and gathering fuel for my bonfire, I decided to make a break back home to anglers deep with my moosehide to let it cure while I explored the rest of the map, leaving most of the meat there as a food supply cache in case I was caught short while exploring. Marking my cave with a food symbol, I set off for home overburdened with moose. This would be my ultimate downfall, as on my way back to Anglers den, my many kilos of reeking moose meat attracted a vast number of hungry wolves, who could not wait to be fed. I tangled with a couple, shot a couple more, and finally made my way back to my house gutted and bleeding from many wolf bites. because my condition was dropping alarmingly fast, my first thought was to sleep it off and restore my condition before dealing with anything else. Little did I realise, that as I lay down, blood pouring out of me and onto my bed, I was in fact fading into The Long Dark. 

So I suppose I didn't really lose anything, but more gained a great story, and a few scars to take with me into my next story. Thank you all ❤️

 

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5 hours ago, ThePhoenics said:

I was so depressed after losing my save, but as UpUpAway said: 

The first few weeks are always the most exciting of the game, when resources are plentiful and skills are low. Can't wait to get those precious firelighting and cooking skills to level 5, I actually clean forgot about tinder and intestinal parasites lmao

I still maintain that the game needs SOME kind of additional mechanic for handling the continuation of saves after death, whether it is a toggle on save creation (Ironman mode or savescum mode lol), or simply allowing saving to be enabled in survival as is possible in story mode, obviously only as an option, for those who wish to still use the standard permadeath model (which is absolutely without question the intended way to play the game, and I will acknowledge that optional difficulty modifications like saving  or other similar things like this have enormous and broad reaching consequences for both the game and player experience; however that is a discussion for another day). I do agree that this game is completely unique in the way that it does not handhold the player, and that should definitely be preserved, but having an optional mode or toggle during save creation should not take away from that. 

 

 

I'd definitely be in favor of a toggle in the custom menu that enables manual saves over some sort of system that would warn players that they were about to make a potentially lethal mistake.

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@ThePhoenics Great story indeed!

Fortunately u can see as u didn't lose much more than a CHARACTER'S progress. After all, their activity contributes to raise achievement's numbers, and mainly, YOUR own learning is never lost. YOU will always remember which way is a region/s exit, or remember potential loot areas, and remember the value of a simple stick fire, a cup of coffee during a cold travel or climb, and remember never forget to equip some basic items before leaving a base. The player's learning passes inherited through all characters.

 

I died many times on survival modes, before i get the feeling of the game. Now i'm on my second "serious" save. The first has gone, because i started to try stupid things, as eat ruined food, running downhill when heavy encumbered, etc. so i was already full troubled and a doggy shown up.

Many times i almost embraced the eternal cold, only because i forgot to carry my bedroll (caught by a blizzard very far from any shelter, and tired as hell), forgot to take some cans to boil water before a hard climb, forgot to reload the revolver (that day was crazy). The thing that kept me "alive' was the willpower and a self-imposed cliche: "think, idiot. think!"

(english is not my native language)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think the option of being able to save your game or not in a survival-like mode should be up to the individual player. I understand that for some it's an extra thrill to have the 'realistic' permadeath option. But others just want to experience the game and enjoy it. As it is now, I'll only ever play the story mode. I will never enjoy a game where I cannot save. If saving is only possible by changing zones or living up to some other criteria that's fine by me. But the one strike and you're out deal stresses me out and depresses me so much that I would rather not play.

Having the option to explore with the safety of save games could be an option similar to switching between survival and storymode. Personally I'd call it explore mode or something similar.

As for making copies of save-files I'm also against that. I want to play the game as it is supplied by the gaming companies, with no cheats, mods or whatever.

Having said all that I can only conclude that if Hinterlands is a game company that does not support casual players such as myself (with the safety of save options) I think that is also fair and will make sure to steer clear of their products in the future.

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1 hour ago, mnmw said:

I think the option of being able to save your game or not in a survival-like mode should be up to the individual player. I understand that for some it's an extra thrill to have the 'realistic' permadeath option. But others just want to experience the game and enjoy it.

I agree. This is, after all, a game and quite arguably, there are plenty of other options in the difficulty setting that also can make the game unrealistic, but yet, they are still present.

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Lost a 700 plus day interloper run over my laptop shutting just as the game was trying to save. It's frustrating no doubt and you feel sick for a minute due to all the progress lost. But that 700 day character sat untouched for a year when it reached the 500 day point because all the skills were maxed out and I could have survived forever quite easily. I only revived the save to try to tough it out on the most formidable regions. So in the end the game is most fun when you have the crappy cloths , poor fire making skills, and are barely getting by. When you reach the point when it's easy boredom quickly sets in and it's time to start a new run. Each run though you learn something that you bring to the next run. The challenge for the developers is to continue to mix it up a bit to challenge the gamer with a new set of obstacles. 

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57 minutes ago, Ahatch said:

When you reach the point when it's easy boredom quickly sets in and it's time to start a new run

Well, but here's my dilemma; whenever I get to that point and start thinking I'm too good, I end up accidentally falling off a cliff somewhere and there are wolves nearby howling, so it's red shaft stim injection

I call it an orgasm tool

and it's run run run to nearest car or house.😂after that, humility sets in as I try to survive for a few days because I forgot to pick up my bed roll somewhere..

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