Looking for community support to make the "silly aim shivering" opt-IN!

[Gun Tech.]

Pros: None.

Cons: 

1. Looks misguided.
2. We already have sway.
3. It was fine for 6 years, and now we get this. It must therefore be a big design mistake that it's added now.
4. Nullifies the current weapons skill system. Be the most accurate shootist and read as many books as you want, if you're cold you will miss.
5. Makes it impossible for skilled bow players to hit anywhere near the animal for long shots, forcing them to spam arrows instead. Sad to watch.
6. Forces a more limited play style, instead of what I love in Survival games: progressing to different play styles depending on which needs for the character are overcome.
7. Craft all the warm clothing you want, it's worth nothing because you have to stop every 500 yards to warm up your teas.
8. Leaves a long run, when weather is cold and teas run out, up to pure RNG whether a wolf ends the run or not. Some of us never ever scumsave and take pride in long runs. This is no longer possible. We have to crouch and throw stones like we did on day 1 when we had no weapons.

I'm not going to bring up the argument that it's unrealistic (since there's a thing called tension and Inuits have hunted for thousands of years without a single warm day). This one in particular might tell everyone more than ever that this is just a game, instead of immersing them, but there are many unrealistic elements to this game.

And I'm not forcing anyone to play without it, like the game designer(s) are forcing everyone to play with it.

I ask instead that this is made a Custom Option for those players who want to turn it on after 6 years of playing.

 

[gotmilkanot]

It's not entirely game-breaking for me since I avoid wolves like a plague on Interloper and hence I rarely get into situations where I have to use my bow on them.

But I agree with your points, though. The change was kinda unnecessary since the original sway was already fine the way it is - no need for that additional jerky movements.

[Ali Kemal Hocalar]

Oh man yes I cant use anything with this shaking please fix this and make this  better please

[Gun Tech.]

Thanks guys. I just want this game to be the best it can be, and I worry that this strange addition for the Halloween event will turn players off. I was expecting it to be gone in the otherwise awesome ❤️ Survival update. That's why I predict the cons the game designers didn't.

I just don't think this late addition to the game will attract a single new player if they knew it was in the game now.

Again, I'm looking for support to make this opt-IN. Make your voice heard.

[odizzido]

I haven't played with it so I don't know how to feel about it. But having it as a custom game toggle would be nothing but benefit.

edit---------

I just wish to mention that I know that my hands get really bad at doing things when they're really cold. I don't have shivering but I would be significantly less effective in other ways. I could see liking it myself. But without actually trying it out I wouldn't actually know. In theory I could like sprains too but I really don't.

Edited December 12, 2020 by odizzido

[Dr. S.]

Personally, I like the change. But having an option to opt out is perfectly reasonable.

[Ernesto_Sorona]

Yeah it's broke with the shaking aim for me. I hope they fix this

[Gun Tech.]

What the game designers didn't take into consideration is that when hunting, late game with best crafted clothing will still only take you 200m without a tea, 400m with a tea. It will force a boring or repetitive or non-hunting playstyle. Limited gameplay.

Much more importantly, anytime during travel, wind can start and blow out your torch or fire and end your run to a wolf - from forcing this exact RNG aim on players. This means you could have played as skillfully as possible, done everything right, and still suddenly die to this newly added instakill RNG. That's not making it harder, that's making it random.

[ManicManiac]

I don't think there is anything for Hinterland to fix... I think it's just another element of challenge for the player to adapt to.

I think it's easy enough to just make sure the character is simply not freezing when we plan on taking a shot. 
Just as (in a similar comparison) I think it's easy to make sure we're not too tired before we want to climb a rope.

I think that "needs" management is as important as inventory management in this game... so I think the adverse effects on aim when freezing or starving are reasonable.

I can respect the opinion others have... but I cannot agree with the position.

Edited December 13, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Admin]

Moved to Wishlist subforum. 

[Serenity]

I can see the late game issues, but in principle I don't necessarily mind it.

I think the shaking effect is implemented very badly though. It's way too fast and looks silly

[Stoutlander]

After long thought I have to agree with the OP solely on the basis of changing an important game mechanic, especially after 6 years as he stated.

When you become so cold that you are shivering, you can usually regather yourself long enough for a shot. If not, you need to find shelter ASAP or you are done. There are other considerations which may have went into their line of thinking, such as trigger or draw hand is usually un-gloved/mittened making you colder faster (or numb) and more prone to missing, and your breathing is a huge part of shooting. Eratic breathing makes for eratic shots. 

With all due respect, I'm with Gun Tech. (OP) on this one.

[gotmilkanot]

I believe OP and a few of the others are experienced enough and are aware of the original weapon swaying effect when freezing - which was fine the way it is.

The new shaking effects that seem to come with the Darkwalker event update added the extra shaking of the screen, making the movements very jerky.

It's more noticeable in Interloper gameplay because you're freezing almost all the damn time, and almost non-existent to some of the posters (not naming anyone here) because they simply don't play Interloper - come on, you hardly ever freeze in lower difficulties - and perhaps are not even aware of this new change.

Personally, I'm down with it if Hinterland wants to make life harder for Interlopers but I have to say the implementation was really bad - so bad that I initially thought my game was bugged when I first experienced it. Or at least be more transparent and include the change in the patch notes rather than doing ninja adjustments and confusing the players.

[ManicManiac]

The affects on aiming really aren't all that new... they've been with us since they revamped the rifle.

Again I think the simple answer is to be more strategic when it comes to hunting.  That is to say, plan hunts better so we get to the quarry before we start freezing.  I think that the shiver effect is a reasonable thing to have to deal with if we choose to try and hunt while slowly freezing to death. 

I think that Hinterland's decisions about their  game ought to be respected.
I think we can either choose to embrace and adapt to the challenge... or on the other side of the coin, we can find a game we like better.
I guess I also assumed that hardcore interloper players would already be skilled enough to be able to find ways to adapt.

I mean isn't the whole point of Interloper to be, "The most difficult experience available. As the name implies, you are an unwelcome guest in this cold, hostile world. This experience is best suited for expert players looking for the ultimate survival challenge."  ...but being adversely affected by the deep cold is "a bridge too far?"

I get that folks may not like the effect, but I'm not at all convinced by the arguments against it.

Edited December 14, 2020 by ManicManiac

[gotmilkanot]

Maniac, next time you log into the game, strip your survivor naked so you can freeze faster on whatever difficulty you're playing > once you're freezing, grab a bow and go to a wolf > let it charge and try to shoot it in the face. You'll notice it's not the same as the original swaying effect that was added back in the revamped rifle update.

Like I said earlier, personally I can live with the change (no big deal) but the implementation looks silly. It's almost as if my survivor is having Parkinson's disease and I can see how it can be disorientating for some players. The principle itself is fine, no problem, I just wish the new effects were done more smoothly.

[Stoutlander]

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

 

I think that Hinterland's decisions about their  game ought to be respected.
I think we can either choose to embrace and adapt to the challenge... or on the other side of the coin, we can find a game we like better.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Did anyone else get a brown shirt when they got this game? 😄

Obviously Hinterland games recognizes their moral and ethical resposibility to their customers and financial supporters. This forum is evidence of that. Besides, the OP is talking about game mechanics, not the color of his hiking boots. It is evident that Hinterland games WANTS to hear about such things as well. 

[ManicManiac]

23 minutes ago, Stoutlander said:

It is evident that Hinterland games WANTS to hear about such things as well.

Yes, I think Hinterland does want to hear about such things... both those opinions for AND against.
 

23 minutes ago, Stoutlander said:

the OP is talking about game mechanics, not the color of his hiking boots.

I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about with this statement.  I'm not talking about the color of hiking boots either

On 12/21/2019 at 6:21 AM, ManicManiac said:

I love the discussion of ideas and the exchange of points of view.

I've made posts in the wishlist subforum in the past as well, but the longer I played the more I came to understand (at least by my estimations) and respect why things were implemented the way they were.

To be clear, there have been ideas here that I have very much supported... the other's I have just weighed in on with my perspective.  I think it's equally valuable for any developer to hear from both sides of an idea or opinion.  I seem to have a much different perspective on the game as a whole than a lot of people on the forum.  Which I suppose has caused some to assume I'm against changing anything... which is not the case.  In the end, I trust Hinterland to do what's best for their game... so if they see fit to change things, then great.

I've not objected to anything they've changed, even though I've not always agreed with the changes... I've accepted them and took the challenge of adapting my playstyle to overcome those decisions I initially didn't like.  I didn't fuss about it... I chose to embrace it, and as a result I've become much happier with the game.

I do feel (that at least to some degree) I understand and can appreciate the choices that Hinterland has made with their game... and I think a voice expressing that is not harmful, but provides a counter balance to all the voices who do what to change things based on their own personal preferences.

I don't condemn other's for their opinions, I just don't always agree with them because I try to understand and appreciate why Hinterland makes the choices they do.

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

57 minutes ago, gotmilkanot said:

Maniac, next time you log into the game, strip your survivor naked so you can freeze faster on whatever difficulty you're playing > once you're freezing, grab a bow and go to a wolf > let it charge and try to shoot it in the face.

I find this to be an odd response...
I think that trying to tell me to do something that I'd consider to be overtly foolish and counter to good strategy is not really a good argument (concerning the point of the thread). 

Edited December 14, 2020 by ManicManiac

[gotmilkanot]

6 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

I find this to be an odd response...
I think that trying to tell me to do something that I'd consider to be overtly foolish and counter to good strategy is not really a good argument. 

Because I still think you are not aware of the new shaking effect that came with the Darkwalker event update.

So instead of me trying to describe the effect here, it's better to see it for yourself.

[ManicManiac]

@gotmilkanot

I've given the thread "time to breath" for a couple of days before posting.  During that time, I did start another run for the sole purpose of trying it out, and see if I could agree with the assertions made here...  I didn't have much for clothing, and it took me a little while to find a bow and arrow, but once I got one I did try it out.

In short... yes, the shivering makes things more difficult, but I still think it's reasonable for the player (facing Hypothermia Risk) to be shivering in those circumstances.  Yes, the shivering makes aiming difficult... but I still think that's kind of the point. 

I think that the simple solution is to just plan hunts a little bit better than folks may have been used to in the past.
I just don't find the shivering to be silly or unreasonable.  I think it's another element of challenge, and I appreciate Hinterland for including it.

Edited December 14, 2020 by ManicManiac

[gotmilkanot]

@ManicManiac

If you're already aware, then it's all good. But since OP asked for an option (which I view it as something similar to turning off the limping feature that we already have in-game), I don't see why not.

Those who like the new shaking visual effect, good for them - they can have it on. And for those who don't, simply turn it off.

Or personally, I could work with smoother animations instead of the current jerky ones that we have now. Again, not a big deal for me so I shall not argue anymore, unless we want the thread to get locked.

[ManicManiac]

@gotmilkanot

And I can appreciate that the request included the idea of making it an optional feature.
As I said, I can respect all of the other points of view on it... I was only offering mine.
Regardless of whether or not it's optional, I was giving my thoughts on the mechanic itself.

9 minutes ago, gotmilkanot said:

personally, I could work with smoother animations

Fair enough.

Edited December 14, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Mr. 0]

Rather implement thermos, so you can warm up yourself when on trip. Before hunt, you sip a hot tee, and your aim will be steady AF.

[Gun Tech.]

On 12/14/2020 at 12:28 AM, Admin said:

Moved to Wishlist subforum. 

I want to object to this and clarify that my post is not a wish: This was recently forced on all players, including ardent fans and long-time players by you for an event that was 100% unrelated to survival. Survival is what this game is famous for and has going for it, and you rely on the core game mechanics for Story, Sandbox, and Challenges.

Now, if death is not evitable, a game is not a Survival game. This is a wisdom I've arrived at, mastering many games in the genre, most of them inferior to TLD. It seems your game designer(s) did not foresee what the recent change would do to survival. I suggest he or they read my post as eloquent critique.

It's especially egregious to skilled players who manage long runs on the hardest difficulty to have a recent change leave the only run-ender - a wolf behind a snow drift - up to pure RNG: 

• You made it so the only weapons available to us are the bow and the flare gun.
• You made it so drawing the bow aggroes nearby wolves.
• You made it so that the bow is too slow to draw to use against surprise wolves.
• This leaves the flare gun. You made it so that there's only 12 flare shells available in the world, and during the course of hundreds of days these will finally all be spent.

From this, the only recourse to evade death is stopping to warm up a tea every 500m when traveling, limiting the already limited gameplay. This is what your design change will cause. I have the vision to foresee that, and the data to support it.

With the core game mechanic change forced on all current players long after 1.0, I can only hope you take it to heart, remove it, and instead put the silly aim shivering on the wish-list for the community to feedback on before adding. As mentioned, it could be a Custom Mode option and then be opt-IN for those who wish it without affecting current playthroughs.

THIS is my wish for The Long Dark.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Gun Tech.

[Dr. S.]

I don't understand this argument. As you point out, the bow is too slow to draw against surprise wolves. So this change is irrelevant to the deadliness of wolf ambushes. This change only affects non-ambush wolf encounters, and there are still plenty of ways to deal with those.