Make wolves roam in packs.


Ottomic

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Why?

- It's kinda impossible to run from them now, even in Voyager.

- They seem to be less scared of stuff overall

- They are being used as meat exploits for a number of versions now.

- They provide the mats for one of the most OP clothing articles in the game as of now.

- Hinterland has been working on making wildlife's presence and purpose clearer.

My idea would be for the devs to make wolf population more clustered and to make them roam around the map, at least in sub-Stalker difficulty levels. Here is how it would work:

- Wolf pack/s move from one point to the other every X time, and will stay around that area for a bit.

- Those areas will be easily identifiable to the player by sound or sight, if you see or hear a wolf, you will know in which direction is more likely to find a higher concentration of them and conversely, where to go if you want to avoid them.

- Strays can still be found far from the group.

- Higher probability of finding carcasses on the ground or wolves hunting on those areas, making the meat exploit still possible, while considering a higher risk/reward.

- Finding yourself in the middle of a wolf pack will probably mean certain death, working actively to avoid them will reward a pacifistic playstyle.

- It will feel, IMO, closer to reality and more organic, denying certain areas to the player for a while, forcing him to shack up for a while if they find themselves in the middle of a wolf path and give tracking more of a dual purpose than "one howl-one wolf".

There could still be some fixed camping zones for wolves such as the highway's village, but for forest areas I believe that mechanic would be beneficial for the game overall.

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I strongly agree with this. The current tweaks have left Voyageur even more wolf-centric than before. And there are still too many patrol wolves who go back and forth like enemy guards. Having them as a pack would ease up the wolf dodging and allow the player to relax a bit for most of the game play. Then you'd see one wolf, which would mean many more. And it would be a matter of getting the heck out of there or hunkering down to avoid them. I'd suggest one pack on the CH with a few strays here and there, two packs on ML, and maybe three on the larger valley map. They'd be randomized enough to even form super-packs, just as wolves have been known to do in real life.

As a side benefit, this arrangement would keep players from gaming the wolves into bringing them dinner, making long term hunkering down more of a challenge.

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Would this mean that any fight with wolves would result in instant death? Because that's really the only thing that makes any sense if you're getting attacked by a pack rather than a single wolf. A lot of people already take issue with the amount of damage done to them in wolf fights.

I like the idea of wolf packs, but I think what you're describing kind of sounds one of two ways to me, one which is that

A) Wolves are now in death packs walking around, making movement a little easier but death much more likely when dealing with wolves (which I'm cool with, maybe?)

or

B) Wolves are in packs now and running into them has become a rarity making them significantly less of a part of the game then before. (I think this would be no bueno).

And while both options certainly offer certain appealing characteristics, I worry that A) would upset many casual gamers who already argue that the wolves are too strong, and B) would make the game wayyyy too easy to survive (perhaps A could create this same problem?).

I've long advocated for greater wolf realism, but anything that would make the game easier to survive at this point would be a big flaw imo. I think if you wanted to create wolf packs that are less common to run into while also ramping up all the other possible killers in the game, then maybe you can strike a balance.

A lot of people feel like wolves are the only real viable killers in the game 95% of the time, and I totally agree, but I don't want to weaken what I feel like is the only killing me factor in the game unless other systems are going to be intensified.

all that being said I advocate for a greater sense of realism in the wolves, but it needs to be done in a way that creates a good balance and doesn't make the game any EASIER to survive (please.. please don't.)

I'm talking from the perspective of playing on Stalker just fyi.

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Hello.

[glow=red]Wolf territory[/glow] - Wolfs should have territory where they live in larger packs.

(areas with lots of loots cause nobody wandered there to loot it because of the wolfies).

There you can easily run in to 2-3 wolfs at the same time, (which require a different kind of strategy and give some sense for the coop play later on) and more wolfies appear if you stay there, so possibility to hide your visibility and scent should be a thing.

At these areas, wolfies are agressive, which means they cant be scared so easily, gunshot only make them stop and growl, but not to flee. [upon howling they can get assistance, and you have 10-20 IGminutes ~ 1-2 minutes?! dunno is this a bad idea?]

[glow=red]Wolf area borders[/glow] - should be patrolled by packs of 1-2 wolf "hunting teams" in order to warn the survivor that he is getting closer. (Sure their behaviour can be variable, if they flee or howl for help or attack or whatever, sorry Iam tired a bit)

[glow=red]"Safe zones"[/glow]Outside of these areas only a few lonely wolfs can be found, whom are banned from the big family for reasons (old, agressive, to many males etc), just like in RL, they are used to hunt alone, but rarely, occasionally attacks humans.

Actually these safe zones are large areas, and if you wonder why the wolfies dont go there, go and figure it out yourself, because something actually made them avoid the area. (maybe a bear, or godzilla himself)

Please do not go so hard on an alpha, especially when they made an alpha which is better than most of the games in this genre, we are actually have chance to make it to become something truly extraordinary, which ofc. require some phantasy and knowledge, but rarely profit from negativity.

Have a nice day, and please, avoid suggesting "Bear Grill things":D

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I think packs would be a much more interesting experience. If you were surrounded by wolves from a pack maybe you drop a decoy and feed em and make your escape. If you don't attack them maybe they don't attack you, also if they encounter you in a pack maybe they just circle you and if you don't run you don't trigger the prey aspect. There are plenty of instances where a pack of wolves engages a bear with cubs but the bear makes a big enough show of "hey fuck off" and the wolves don't chance it. If you can make yourself a dirty target, maybe pop a flare or feed them and walk away, maybe walk away facing the wolves, showing strength or slowly walking towards them, it could be modeled that certain behaviors towards the AI give different chance modifiers for the Wolf AI or pack AI to react differently. Not always perma death. Besides if you are dumb enough to end up surrounded by wolves which you typically can see from a big distance away that is your own fault.

The root cause here is the Wolves if they are to be a central theme in TLD because there are 25+ of them in the game on stalker is they need to act more like wolves and less like automatons

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I strongly disagree as well. thats insta death, its a No No for the devs. give newer players a chance to win for once.

It would just be a lot more of a challenge to separate off one wolf, perhaps with bait, and then kill it. You couldn't take on the whole pack without being very lucky and a very good shot.

they need to act more like wolves and less like automatons

I think that's it in a nutshell. Even if packs aren't possible, more randomized behavior is critical. I went back to the old familiar trapper's cabin recently and sure enough, there's still the same wolf there in Voyageur and you can still shuffle the same two deer toward him over and over again for double kills. Rinse and repeat. It should be no wolves for a while, then maybe one stray, then the whole danged pack eating all your local deer, then again no wolves and no food at all. That's the key. By at least balancing that out, we'd see more starvation and freezing deaths and fewer blood loss/shock deaths from wolves. In fact I wonder what the current total of wolf kills is game-wide vs. the other potential deaths. That would probably tell you the whole story in one stat.

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I strongly disagree as well. thats insta death, its a No No for the devs. give newer players a chance to win for once.

It would just be a lot more of a challenge to separate off one wolf, perhaps with bait, and then kill it. You couldn't take on the whole pack without being very lucky and a very good shot.

they need to act more like wolves and less like automatons

I think that's it in a nutshell. Even if packs aren't possible, more randomized behavior is critical. I went back to the old familiar trapper's cabin recently and sure enough, there's still the same wolf there in Voyageur and you can still shuffle the same two deer toward him over and over again for double kills. Rinse and repeat. It should be no wolves for a while, then maybe one stray, then the whole danged pack eating all your local deer, then again no wolves and no food at all. That's the key. By at least balancing that out, we'd see more starvation and freezing deaths and fewer blood loss/shock deaths from wolves. In fact I wonder what the current total of wolf kills is game-wide vs. the other potential deaths. That would probably tell you the whole story in one stat.

Has anybody really died more often from anything but wolves since 1.82? I mean really? Wolf trauma is massively overdone. Yes they should have a chance to get you, but its 80-90% every 10 days from on and on and on. Simply ridiculous. There should be surprise encounters. There should be stalking. There should be fewer wolves but the wolves out there actively tracking you. Actively following your "tracks" looking for you, that is how they should find you from a distance. By looking at your tracks, picking up the scent, and then they should go from behind tree to tree or behind snowbanks, to stay out of sight just like a real wolf would. Until it gets close, then it's on, a sprint to the target, and they should come out of nowhere.

The fact that we see wolves 75-90% of the time you leave a structure or everytime you go between on settlement area to another if it is clear, is a failure to implement realism in their behavior and existence.

They should be dangerous, the one or two of them on a map, should be a real bitch when you have to deal with them, but for the most part during a week they should leave you the hell alone, to your struggle, and when you do encounter them it should be brutal, but right now they are too much of a component of the game. Rename the game "The Long Wolf Avoider" if that is what you are building.

I'm here for the survival experience, the overdose of wolf death is not the attraction of TLD. Should there be a mode where some of the players get to deal with them daily sure. If that is what the "hardcore" lol think they need fine. Stick them on Death Incarnate but realistically they are cheating themselves from the real game.

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I strongly disagree as well. thats insta death, its a No No for the devs. give newer players a chance to win for once.

It would just be a lot more of a challenge to separate off one wolf, perhaps with bait, and then kill it. You couldn't take on the whole pack without being very lucky and a very good shot.

they need to act more like wolves and less like automatons

I think that's it in a nutshell. Even if packs aren't possible, more randomized behavior is critical. I went back to the old familiar trapper's cabin recently and sure enough, there's still the same wolf there in Voyageur and you can still shuffle the same two deer toward him over and over again for double kills. Rinse and repeat. It should be no wolves for a while, then maybe one stray, then the whole danged pack eating all your local deer, then again no wolves and no food at all. That's the key. By at least balancing that out, we'd see more starvation and freezing deaths and fewer blood loss/shock deaths from wolves. In fact I wonder what the current total of wolf kills is game-wide vs. the other potential deaths. That would probably tell you the whole story in one stat.

Has anybody really died more often from anything but wolves since 1.82? I mean really? Wolf trauma is massively overdone. Yes they should have a chance to get you, but its 80-90% every 10 days from on and on and on. Simply ridiculous. There should be surprise encounters. There should be stalking. There should be fewer wolves but the wolves out there actively tracking you. Actively following your "tracks" looking for you, that is how they should find you from a distance. By looking at your tracks, picking up the scent, and then they should go from behind tree to tree or behind snowbanks, to stay out of sight just like a real wolf would. Until it gets close, then it's on, a sprint to the target, and they should come out of nowhere.

The fact that we see wolves 75-90% of the time you leave a structure or everytime you go between on settlement area to another if it is clear, is a failure to implement realism in their behavior and existence.

They should be dangerous, the one or two of them on a map, should be a real bitch when you have to deal with them, but for the most part during a week they should leave you the hell alone, to your struggle, and when you do encounter them it should be brutal, but right now they are too much of a component of the game. Rename the game "The Long Wolf Avoider" if that is what you are building.

I'm here for the survival experience, the overdose of wolf death is not the attraction of TLD. Should there be a mode where some of the players get to deal with them daily sure. If that is what the "hardcore" lol think they need fine. Stick them on Death Incarnate but realistically they are cheating themselves from the real game.

In-game, I have yet to actually die from starvation or exposure. Literally all of my deaths (on Voyager, with 40 or so days survived) have been due to wolf attacks. I have actually put the game aside in disgust after getting jumped for the 4th time in a row.

So, either the actual "tactics" of the wolves need to be improved (more stalking and following, less YOLO-running), the number of wolves needs to be decreased significantly AND environmental conditions needs to be ramped up, or we need better weapons.

If this was a real-life experience, literally the first thing I would do is make a spear; either lash a knife to a pole, or just sharpen a long stick via knife or rubbing on a stone. With a spear, you can defend yourself much farther (with a good lunge, you can reach up to 10 feet away) than you can with a hand weapon, and you can antagonize the animal (make aggresive jabs to keep it off balance and unable to attack) while defending yourself. A spear wouldn't be "overpowered" either: you HAVE to connect with that lunge, or the animal gets within your reach and you are FUCKED.

Lacking a spear, I would use a branch to neutralize the wolfs jaws when it leaps. When it lunges to bite, you slam the club into its mouth (removing the wolfs one weapon) then you stab/hack/punch the shit out of it when it is helpless. Obviously, this is much less effective and far more dangerous than using a spear, but it is better than the current tactic of "DERP DERP DERP fall back onto the ground and offer the wolf direct access to all of your tasty vital organs".

Point being, humans become "death on roller skates" to 99% of the worlds animals when all we have is a sharp stick.

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Might I suggest that the game involve a combination of both packs and lone wolves? this way, you still get the effect of beating off a wolf attack occasionally (but less regularly than present) and survive, but you still have to avoid wolf packs, because you will be torn apart.

It renders wolves more of a threat, but a realistic threat than the "Oh god, the furry phantom that spells your end" approach that some people take by overpowering the wolf's abilities.

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Animal Behavior is one of those things that still needs polish in this game. And in addition to wolf packs you could argue for Deer Herds as well, unless all social structure of animals have gone away due to the Geomagnetic event.... Then again every time I come across rabbits they seem to be in a herd lol

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I would also request that wolves and other animals react to dangers and other stimuli intelligently, with the AI retaining "memory" of certain areas. If you over farm a rabbit region, the rabbits move on and do not return for at least 50 days. Deer would get spooked by corpses, and wolves would not immediately forget about you once you pass out of their sensory radius (they would follow your "scent", this could be implemented using a path-tracking AI that follows the character's footprints)

Additionally, I would like the scare radius of rifle-shot to be increased.

Deer should also get skittish if you are within 200 metres and in line of sight.

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Would this mean that any fight with wolves would result in instant death? Because that's really the only thing that makes any sense if you're getting attacked by a pack rather than a single wolf. A lot of people already take issue with the amount of damage done to them in wolf fights.

Well, no, my idea, as has been echoed by other replies, is that packs would be more visible (more howls, more wolves in close vicinity) making them easier to avoid, really. If we ever get footsteps implemented that could be another way to tell them apart. The idea is to precisely bunch wolves together to lower the chance of finding a wolf you couldn't previously locate, run from or scare with a flare (which happens a lot since last patch) and that without a knife will drop you to ~30% condition. Strays would be around of course, but we wouldn't have the wolf blanket situation you can clearly see in places like the Coastal ice. It would also lower the chance of being attacked several times in a row as long as you pay a modicum of attention to avoiding the pack (I have had that happen to me more than once).

Wolf aggression could also be tuned to prevent insta-deaths on approaching a pack of wolves, like most of them sticking to it while 2-3 of them attacked you, which would still be possible to scare off with a gunshot or a flare as you are making your escape, or as it's been said, to lure them out of the group. The main idea would be to make wolves less of a random hazard, balancing exploits (harvesting a feeding wolf would be harder and more dangerous, but scavenging after a pack could prove beneficial) and harmonize the latest tuning of their mechanics. I think devs have beefed wolves in response to the implementation of reusable cures, but I think the game is becoming too centered around hostile wildlife (I had my wolf encounters in my last playthrough around Christmas, nothing comparable to the scale of my last games) and while I think that's an interesting concept to the game, we need to harmonize it with the "survival" theme instead of pushing for a Cabela's game.

Animal Behavior is one of those things that still needs polish in this game. And in addition to wolf packs you could argue for Deer Herds as well, unless all social structure of animals have gone away due to the Geomagnetic event.... Then again every time I come across rabbits they seem to be in a herd lol

I would argue against deer herds, but only because I'm sure it would lead to exploits and general AI wonkiness with no real benefit to the game.

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Adding always stalking wolves is a bad idea.There´s going to be issues regarding how they behave when you sleep outside or use any of the timetravelling ablities.

I don´t know how they manage that issue currently, but its an issue.I mean what happens to the wolves when you sleep ? Do they keep still ? Do they respawn after long periods of time in sleep ? I feel its counter intuitive to get attacked by a spawned wolf in general, especially when you are sleeping and they ar afraid of fire.

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