suggestion The fundamental problem with TLD

[Vince 49]

Although just surviving isn't exactly boring (especially on Interloper), it's usually less intense and satisfying than the early game where every day you are finding or crafting new clothes, tools, or weapons.  Depending on the level and your skill, somewhere between 30 and 80 days, you have all the tools and weapons available and your clothing is maxed out or nearly so.  Why go to Bleak Inlet if you know there is nothing you will find that you don't already have?  Additions to the game that would address this would be welcome.  As a specific example, let's say that there are legendary stainless steel cooking pots that weigh only 40% as much as the cast iron ones--but they can only be found in Bleak Inlet.  Or maybe, advanced arrows that have a 50% chance of an instakill, but they are only available in Hushed River Valley.  Another possibility is especially dangerous portions of regions where there are unique items or books that aren't available elsewhere.  The danger could be dense wildlife, thin ice, falling rocks, or something else.  The idea is the regions would become known by notes left around, signs, or similar.  The player would know they need to be skilled and well equipped before seeking the rewards there.

Of course, this is just my 3 cents. (Inflation)

[Azdrawee]

17 hours ago, Vince 49 said:

@Azdrawee, I may have missed something.  What are the late game improvements included in the last two updates?

Bleak Inlet ammo crafting and the mapping improvements in Fearles Cartographer really extended what you can do late-game, imo.

[manolitode]

@Niev 

Well put, I think you summarized the potential of TLD quite accurately, which is confirmed from the overall positive response here. I don't think I've stuck with any game as long as TLD even though I know it inside out by now. In spite of end game monotony, I keep coming back year after year. Jumping is a topic of its own as you can see if you search for it but I do like these ideas about a greatly extended number of craftables, varied clothing and more. I guess focusing on endgame content for us oldies isn't a great businessmodel for HL when you can attract a new (and paying) playerbase with an expensive story. 

Welcome to the forum 

[darkscaryforest]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's perspectives and wanted to offer my own. I'm currently at around 200 hours in game and still having a great time. I don't know if I agree with OP and some of the push for additions or change, but I can appreciate where you're coming from and certainly admit that I wouldn't truly know if an addition or change would sit well with me until I tried the implementation of it.

One of the things I wanted to stress is that for me the draw for this game is absolutely the exploration component, tempered/paced by the survival aspects. I feel like I'm in the minority feeling this way since a lot of folks seem to enjoy the survival part more, but I think this game really excels at creating a beautifully handcrafted, consistent world to experience. If you're focused on the survival, I get it: you run into the same 30 items in all 10 regions, it's all snowy hills filled with trees. Why would you travel to other regions since your starting one has everything you need to survive? For me, the best part of the game is just to see what lies beyond to begin with. Slowly connecting the dots as to how all the areas connect and what you can expect at each place. I contend that it isn't so farfetched to think a survivor wouldn't want to do the same. People love to travel. Humans love to explore. Every region has its own unique personality and setting that makes your survival experience there like no where else in the game. And then, we can come here to talk about it and relate since we know what those regions look like.  I talk about going on a forge run to the Riken in Desolation Point crossing the crumbling highway and you can see it and the challenges associated in your head.

I feel like a lot of survival games do the whole procedural generation thing which does have its own upsides, but it feels so tired. Your experience is "unique" each time, but it feels watered down to me. Great Bear Island is huge and diverse in its landscapes, structures, and evidence of those perished. I can't really think of any other popular survival games that have a world like that (feel free to prove me wrong by naming titles so that I may go play them😁 ).

I find the simplicity in the crafting menu refreshing. It feels really polished and almost nothing feels extraneous. I understand the mindset that "more is good" and I honestly can't fully explain why, but I feel like some survival games have serious bloat in features and it takes away from the experience for me. (probably feeds back to my bias of really liking the exploring part)

Another thing I want to highlight is the 4 "experiences" or difficulties. I've spent a lot of time in each and they truly do allow or force you to play the game differently.

An issue is that The Long Dark has a lot to offer, crossing over multiple genres with its exploration of a persistent world, survival of the elements and predators, and rpg/adventure game aspects in its story mode. Different parts of the game resonate with certain folks more, so you have lobbying for tweaking/adding to whatever is coolest to them (I'm over here like, so when's the next region coming!?)

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by darkscaryforest

[Niev]

@haft2doit I thought about rewriting the main post as reading it again it doesn't exactly convey what I meant, and discussing with you all I realized the argument is more nuanced than what I originally thought, but I wouldn't want to "spam" the forums or anything by recreating the topic, if it's okay for the admins we could agree on a bullet point list and maybe make it circulate a bit on reddit etc. as a sort of updated feedback topic for 2020, but only if we're all on board

@Dan_ I will man, glad you agree and coming back from the game (having played again in the last two days) I can confirm everything, it was again like a drug for the first 4-5 hours, then I got to Coastal Highway (after an incredibly tough voyage)  settled, started curing my leathers and saplings and came to the conclusion: "oh, now I need to do the clicking simulator for 30 in-game days and then move on somewhere else.. no thanks" it's always the same for me! I just wish I could do more stuff with all the good looting I did..

@odizzido the story is another point that I should have addressed bette in the OP as there are more people who like it than I thought, I really didn't like it that much, it's not at all horrible or anything but the writing is all over the place and the objectives are sometimes nonsensical for the type of game that this is. Creating convincing NPCs and stories is very hard even for AAA developers, they achieved a good result but ultimately I still feel it's a bit of a waste of resources, but I absolutely respect your opinion on it and hope we can all get what we like from TLD

@Vince 49 agree, that's what I meant with "different brands/qualities of items", different kinds of cleaning kits, pots, matches and everything would add a lot of immersion and purpose for exploration

@darkscaryforest I like the exploration a lot too, in the sense of moving from one place to the next strategizing on resources, optimal travel paths and condition, that's the thing the game does better as it ties with the amazing immersion and audio/visual quality that it has, freezing to death and finding refuge in a derailed train cart never gets old for me. Random generation would kill this game IMHO, a lot of what makes it special is how handcrafted everything is, the maps are not big but they're incredibly detailed and hard to navigate (in a good way), as for the risk of "item bloating" look, I don't want them to add hundreds of new materials systems and mechanics, the game should remain simple and straightforward, but at the moment I feel it is too simple, bordering on barebones. We've discussed lots of possible features that wouldn't make it overwhelmingly complex but give you a lot more choice in how you want to pass time in the game, and also adding higher goals besides just surviving (in sandbox mode), stuff that you would only be able to complete after a lot of hours, which would require high skill developement (which takes time) and rare materials and items, the only things I would add are things that reward the most proficient survivors with more things to do, that's all

 

As for modding in general (respoding to a couple of you) I read a couple topics made in the past about TLD and modding, and even though they seem to be opening up to the idea it seems the general atmosphere is hostile towards modders and mods, and to that: people don't mod your game because they hate it, they mod it because they love it! modders usually open up new paths and create new ideas that are implemented by the official developers, think about it, it's free work that you can use to expand the game without spending money, and modders themselves would be very willing to "work for free" so to speak just because they're so passionate about the game you created, I really hope Ralph and the others have changed their mind on the subject as their previous stance is nonsensical and antagonistic to modding for absolutely no good reason. People could use mods for cheating/flying around spawning full auto M4's in the game, what's the problem with that? do they ruin the experience for anyone other than themselves? and also why should there only be one way to enjoy TLD, and you decide it? don't be so jealous of your creation, it makes you look petty! As for the mod tools, it would be great if they were released but it rarely becomes a reality even in AAA games, so I'm a bit skeptical

[ToAsT]

I agree that the late-game gameplay is a little lacking. I suspect the expectation is that once you've become "satisfied" with your current sandbox game, that you should start over and try again, adjusting the gameplay as you see fit (difficulty, custom options, etc). Adding additional resources, major gameplay options, etc could potentially upset the game as it is, so I highly doubt that they'd introduce any extreme measures. With that said, there are some things I think Hinterland could introduce for late-game players that wouldn't be overly taxing (given what's already in the game) and might help:

- Major Weather Events. Similar to the Whiteout challenge or the events in Episode 3, you could have major weather events that occur sporadically past Day 50 or so that you could potentially predict in advance (craft a makeshift barometer?) and prepare for. E.g., A massive 2 day blizzard is coming that will drop the temperature to Winter's Embrace levels indoors and that you have to prep for.

- Small quests triggered by finding notes in the world. Similar to the storymode, maybe you can find the fabled white deer, or solve an age-old mystery by reading emails on certain PCs scattered about the world during an aurora (like the Archivist challenge). They'd have to be difficult enough that your survivor would need to be well-outfitted and have several regions prepped with supplies before undergoing the quests. Heck, even have a random "end-game" if the player chooses that's like Hopeless Rescue, but the beginning and end are randomized (Timberwolf Mountain to Desolation Point is the original, but it could be Broken Railroad to Bleak Inlet, or something else).

- Advanced crafting recipes. Maybe some of the items you can craft aren't known to you until you find the recipe somewhere in the world?

- Improvised Firearm for late-game Interloper players to actually bother with Bleak Inlet. Could tie in with the "find a blueprint" of the previous point. Could simply be a matter of finding a ruined rifle/revolver and only allowing it to be fixed at the cannery.

- More unique spawns in other regions. Mystery Lake and Pleasant Valley both had random prepper caches. I'd like to see something similar in the other regions, if only for the exploration thrill. And maybe, in these particular spots, food doesn't decay as quickly, so in late games on Stalker or Interloper, there's still a reason to go there.

- Do something with the mine in Coastal Highway

Edited September 15, 2020 by ToAsT