For the love of god- raw meat warning ⚠️


Schrodingers Box

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 Please put a warning for ANY time raw meat- especially predator meat is about to be consumed. Not just from radial menu. When you use a gamepad and try to use or drop some thing from inventory menu not realizing that menu is “active” and accidentally consume 1/10 a gram of raw bear and get parasites as a result it’s aggravating. I may choose to eat 5% sardines or even raw meat if necessary but to get parasites in interloper because of a menu fault is annoying as hell. 

Edited by Schrodingers Box
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I don't really think that's a menu fault, but rather I think that's more of a player mistake.

:coffee::fire:

On 7/30/2019 at 4:34 AM, ManicManiac said:

But we already have this bit of hand holding... :(  and I don't think we need any more hand holding in this game.  I think players need to pay attention to what they are doing.

On 7/30/2019 at 11:55 PM, ManicManiac said:

I feel it's more important for players to learn to pay attention to what they are doing, rather than the game saving us from ourselves.  I understand what you are getting at... but this game is all about taking careful and deliberate action.  I think that making a poor decision or foolish/careless mistake should have consequences; even ones that result in death.

On 2/17/2020 at 11:48 PM, ManicManiac said:

I think that player behavior doesn't need to be fixed by a developer... so I don't think there is anything about this that needs fixing on Hinterland's end.

On 10/3/2019 at 1:11 AM, ManicManiac said:

as players we do need to be paying attention to what we are doing in this game.

I like that we are punished for mistakes, as it teaches us to pay closer attention and make fewer mistakes.  It was the same way with raw meat... but much to my disappointment we now have a little hand holding safety net for the radial menu..."Are you sure you want to eat that?"

I generally think the better solution to these types of things, is for players to be paying attention and to take careful and deliberate action.  Not to push for the idea of wanting to rely on the game to save us from ourselves.

I know there are plenty of folks who may not agree, and that's okay... this is just my point of view on that particular topic.

Quote

I'm still just not a fan of the "bail out" mechanic.

When I was getting used the radial menu, I did once accidentally eat an MRE that I had intended to place... but after that I wasn't upset about it, I just realized I needed to be careful when I was trying to do things with the new radial until I got used to it.  I suppose I could have taken to the forums and stated how a person who wanted to put something on a table would not eat it by accident, but I didn't.  I took it as a lesson that I just needed careful about what I was doing.

Since I don't have any issues with accidentally eating raw meat, I acknowledge that the mechanic doesn't really apply to me.  I tend not to mention it until I see posts about wanting to have more "safety nets" added to the game to save a player from their mistakes.  This is when I start discussing about how for a game that was fundamentally build on not holding the players hand to start implementing this kind of hand holding; I feel undermines the rest of the experience that the team has built. 

I only talk about it because I know this could easily be a slippery slope.  You start with a safety net about "accidentally" eating raw meat... then if we're are not careful, we end up with confirmation dialogue for more and more things.  I would just hate for that to happen, when the simpler solution (which aligns much better with the spirit of the game) would be for the players to pay more attention.

 

Edited by ManicManiac
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I have considered it. For one yes it is a player mistake one that you will most of the time not stumble upon. On the other hand unless you're desperate there's no reason a sane man would drink dirty water or eat uncooked meat. So I'd propose this if you're above 25% hunger or thirst then the option to eat uncooked meat or drink unclean water simply not be available.

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9 hours ago, odizzido said:

It's also a mistake that would likely never happen in real life /shrug

Yeah, this is also a truth. I guess, if HL introduce this feature, this should be "QoL" feature. I think coding this part would not cost terrible amount of manpower and budget, this would be really simple. So I think this will depends on dev's point of view toward "QoL" 

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I think the better question to ask is how would it hurt your game experience to make it harder to accidentally eat raw meat?

 

I think it's easy to see both sides. People who have played for a while know what's up and will only accidentally eat raw meat very rarely and not enough for it to matter much. In the end you just have to not do it, after all.

People who are newer to the game will do it more often and it's obvious it should never happen in real life. After all, Will can't tell the difference between raw and cooked meat? Obviously the UI isn't as good for avoiding it as it should be.

 

In the end I think this is probably a newer player issue and just one more thing which will stop people from enjoying the game.

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I think if the idea of "mistakes having consequences" is enough for a person to not enjoy the game... then perhaps that person might consider finding a game they like better (or at least better suits them).  Perhaps one that has more hand holding mechanics, and is more geared to saving the player from themselves.  :)

:coffee::fire:
Folks can like or dislike the game if they want to (obviously)... I'm just not in favor of ideas when folks seem to want to change the game I enjoy very much... just because they don't like certain aspects.

Not every game is going to be a perfect fit for every player. 

Edited by ManicManiac
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@ManicManiac I agree about the concept of hand holding, but this doesn't have to be an in your face prompt. As I said earlier unless you're desperate there's no reason a sane man would drink dirty water or eat uncooked meat. So I'd propose this if you're above 25% hunger or thirst then the option to eat uncooked meat or drink unclean water simply not be available. You can accidentally click away and it'd do nothing unless you were dehydrated or starving. This should satisfy both parties. As none of us are choosing to eat raw meat in the game unless we have no other option...which means you're likely dying of hunger or thirst and you need a few more valuable minutes to get to base so you risk it. 

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@Patriot

I understand where you're coming from, I really do.

However, my perspective is rooted in where setting one president can lead down a slippery slope.  I'm already disappointed we have the "are you sure you want to eat that" prompt...  In fact I kind of hate it, but I respect the decisions Hinterland makes for their game.

I think any amount of hand-holding in a game about survival, undermines the some of the fundamental challenges that are part of the heart of the game.

Raph has spoke about this kind of thing before (links included): 

On 6/14/2020 at 8:02 PM, ManicManiac said:

And by extension, I would posit (in the context of the game world):
If Mother Nature doesn't care if we live or die... then I think, neither should this game.

I think in an open world sandbox the story we experience is ours, and the onus is on us in that context.
I think this game should "punish" mistakes.  In a survival game like this, if a player is not paying attention or makes a mistake... we should have to live with the consequences of our actions.

This is a game where taking careful and deliberate action is important... and frankly I really want it to stay that way.
I strongly dislike it when I make a mistake, and there is no meaningful consequence.  I think that kind of thing makes for complacent players... and is much more befitting a "Walking Simulator," not a "Survival Experience" like The Long Dark.


:coffee::fire:
I mean nothing personal toward anyone.  I just really love this game, and I'm not in favor of things that limit player choice or serve only to make life easier for the player.  I love the challenge, I love the difficulty, and I love that this game requires the player to pay attention.
... and I don't want that to go away.

Edited by ManicManiac
Edited for clarity. :)
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@Patriot

I forgot about that one... and I don't like that prompt either. 

The one I was referring to is a bailout prompt from the radial menu - food tab:

Quote

CHANGELIST v1.36 [39433]
*[ALL] Added new pop-up warning to prevent players from accidentally Eating Raw Meat or Fish when selecting them from the Radial menu.

handholdinggarbage.thumb.jpg.263ea3dbe05949ebe99cddf671451398.jpg

:coffee::fire::coffee:
This is the stuff, I don't like.

Edited by ManicManiac
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Guys just apply some rational logical thought here. 

  Yes mistakes should have consequences - walking off a cliff. Taking a shortcut that ends up in a huge drop off. Sleeping too long during a storm.   But eating raw meat is not a mistake you would actually make IRL- it’s a mechanic of the controls, not a player decision. This game is about decisions, Not controller flubs. 

    And again THINK. There is a huge difference between accidentally eating some of your MRE vs eating raw meat in interloper (you don’t get MRE’s except in the easy levels so obviously you can’t relate with the impact). 

   Fixing a menu mechanic has no impact on DECISIONS.  If I decide to take a risk and suffer consequences that’s the point.  But when you try to drop a piece of meat but the menu is “active” and you can’t really tell that’s not a decision. 

Edited by Schrodingers Box
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This game also has a warning when you use unfinished book as a fuel. Devs clearly know and understand about the value of QoL patch. But I guess they miss this points for space bar menu and maybe it is in their plan but in low priority. Doing mistakes is not a decision, we are already doing mistakes in TLD. 

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