Feedback on the current sprain system


Danielviomusic

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I've been playing quite a lot lately (I already have nearly 200h playtime, and own the game since full release), and I've been struggling with the sprain system. The sprain update 2 years ago was an improvement for sure, but it still could use some work. Briefly, here are my thoughts on the current system and its issues:

  1. Painkillers are now useless. I can't recall the last time I used painkillers. Everytime I get a sprain I just use bandages and then carry on, utterly avoiding pain dissease. It will even disappear by itself after a few hours without sleeping.
  2. It is way too RNG and there's no way to avoid it. While improving survival skills may reduce risks on contracting some disseases, such as cooking on intestinal parasites, there's no way around the possibility on getting a sprain when walking up a hill. While in most of disseases you can pretty much foreshadow when you are gambling or what are the odds, this is not the case with sprains.
  3. It is not realistic. I know all in all it's a puzzle game feature, where the game punishes you for taking risky routes and thus makes it harder to avoid wildlife or get to loot. But the game pretty much always tries to maintain a good equilibrium between realism and game balance. This feature is pretty much game punishment only.
  4. Ultimately, it is not fun. The way this feature works is tedious. Walk through a hill -> sprain an ankle -> stop to treat it -> carry on -> sprain it again since you're still in the hill -> repeat. It just doesn't work.

So in order to improve these issues, I've come up with some ideas:

  • Add a whole new survival skill. Call it mountaneering, trekking or however you want. It would be upgraded by doing physical activity, such as walking, sprinting or climbing ropes. The main point in this topic is once you upgrade it, your expertise in walking in snow makes it more unlikely to suffer from a sprain. But this new skill provides a whole lot of new realistic features possibilities. These might be improved stamina recovery, reduced sprint energy consumption, faster or less energy-consuming rope climbing, or even improved weight capacity. Anything physical-related fits. And it's realistic, since it would simulate human body adaptation to a single activity. If desired and using the same logic, the skill would be the first one in the game to reduce when you pretty much bunker in one place. All in all this simulates the idea when you do sports: If you're constant with it, your body improves and that activity gets easier; but if you leave it for long enough, you lose that preparation. The good thing about this feature is you can take it as long or as short as desired.
  • Add a new attribute to boots. In real life, there's obviously a huge difference between using a pair of sneakers or boots to climb a mountain. Boots offer ankle stability and protection, and make it unlikely to sprain the ankle. Simply add a 'sprain protection' attribute to every shoe in the game. It would be logic, realistic and intuitive.
  • Merge pain and sprain again. I can understand there was a point on separating them, but the result has been pretty much painkillers becoming obsolete. There's no reason to keep it this way, simply revert the change. Make the heal process back to 1 bandage and 2 painkillers again.

These ideas are simple in concept, and add a new depth of realism and possibilities to the sprain system. By adding the new survival skill and a new attribute to boots, there's now a more active role in the player when deciding if the risk is worth taking or not. Furthermore, it adds so much more planification wise. Are you going to TM? Then you may consider taking your best boots with you or waiting until your mountaneering skill reaches level 4 to avoid injuries. Are you going to FM? Then you pretty much can leave your boots at base and use a pair of normal shoes, there's not much chance to get injured. Obviously, since the player can now protect against sprain risk, sprain risk should be higher in the earlier stages of a game. This would disencourage players to climb mountains with their teeth same as consuming carnivore meat before cooking lvl 5.

These are just some examples, but the point here is same as intestinal parasites, risk of infection or even protection to wildlife are threats the player can actively planify against; this sprain system rework would definitely make it more interactive, following that same direction of thought.

If you read until here, thanks for your attention. Hope you find these ideas good. Leave your thoughts here, please. Cheers!

 

Edited by Danielviomusic
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  A well worn topic, so I will just echo what I've discussed before:

On 10/31/2019 at 9:27 AM, ManicManiac said:

Honestly I think the sprain system is very well tuned now.  I disagree with most of the assertions made on this thread, but I don't have the time or desire to debate it.

Those that take the system's feedback into account, don't seem to have much of a problem.  I for one, almost never get sprains anymore... the ones I do get are well deserved.  As in traipsing around on slopes trying to goat up to high places to do some mapping.  Other than that, all I do is pay attention to the feedback the system gives me.  I'd wager that if those people who are still having problems would take the time to adjust the way they traverse terrain, I bet they would also rarely get sprains. 

Also, folks know that we can sleep off sprains right?  We don't need bandages to heal them up.  I only ever carry one bandage on me and I only use that in case of wolf attack.

The short version:
The sprain system seems fine to me now.  I almost never get sprains at all.  They are actually incredibly easy to avoid nowadays.

On 11/1/2019 at 1:03 AM, ManicManiac said:

As to how I avoid sprains... it's in keeping with how Raph described the mechanic:  Even when I am encumbered, I just pay attention to the feedback the mechanic gives me.  If I'm traversing up a slope or even small hill and I see the sprain risk indicator, the game is telling me two things.  The first thing it's telling me is that I am currently on what's considered a treat to "rolling my ankle or tripping and spraining my wrist" (this explains why sometimes we might see a sprain indicator pop up on what might seem "a little bump in the snow") - that's essentially a trip hazard (it's not just about really steep slopes).  The second thing that indicator is telling me is that if I keep moving on this hazard (as in continuing to walk along, ignoring the warning indicator) that I could slip, trip, or fall at anytime and suffer a sprain. 

As I've played it seems evident to me that the sprain indicator is all about time...  I mean yes there are many factors (fatigue, encumbrance, slope angle severity, RNG rolls... so on, and so fourth) but what I noticed common to all instances of slope & sprain is time.  It may seem counterintuitive (I ask folks to please remember - sometimes a video just needs to video game), but once on a surface that triggers the sprain warning indicator is when the game will start making rolls against the modifiers on whether or not a sprain is triggered.  It appears to do this in increments (and I've never witnessed it being immediate - in other words there is always time between when we first see the indicator to when we eventually see a sprain) so there is time to act.  All we need to do is get to a surface that does not trigger the sprain risk warning.

The idea is to keep exposure to the risk low.  If you are climbing up a slope and you get find yourself in a risk condition you can either leave the slope, you can find spots along the slope that perhaps are not steep (like on boulders/rocks along the way that have a flat surface you can sort of "rest at" to remove the risk indicator and "reset the system"), and you can also sprint.  I know that sounds nuts, but think about it.  If you are going up a slope and you just have a little ways to go, but your get sprain risk indicator... you can roll the dice and sprint the rest of the way.  That way, you are at least decreasing the exposure time to the risk factor, and therefore "roll the dice" fewer times.  This increases your chances of getting up over that slope before you hit a sprain.

So, while sprains are a real thing to worry about when traversing the world of Great Bear, there are ways to minimize that risk.  However if a player chooses to traverse a lengthy stretch of slope, then that player also needs to accept the risk they are choosing to take.  Trapesing around on slopes or trying to goat up the terrain, then sprains are deserved in those cases.  It's super easy to get around the maps and even avoid wolves and bears without needing to skirt steep slopes (I know a lot of us old timers got used to spidering around all over the place with relative impunity).

On 11/1/2019 at 1:03 AM, ManicManiac said:

Ultimately, I think it comes down to two factors...

- Perhaps some are still experiencing bugs (causing the mechanic not to function the way Raph described as the intended function).
- Perhaps some are still going recklessly over every hill and dale without regard to the feedback the game gives them.

In both cases, I'd say is not a problem with the mechanic itself.  I don't doubt some are still having real problems, but I'm not convinced it's because of the mechanic itself.  I'd be more inclined to believe they are experiencing either a bug or a just a player problem.

:coffee::fire:
In short... I don't think there is anything that Hinterland needs to fix with this system.  I like the mechanic just fine. 

Edited by ManicManiac
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Thank you for your answers guys!

Regarding to @ManicManiac post. What you say is mostly right, and I can agree in your points. You reason quite well all the mental process to face off the current sprain system, and that's totally fine. Yes, those are ways to avoid sprains, and yes, it may come down to those two factors you explain. But even if the dissease is avoidable, that doesn't mean more depth wouldn't fit well. The things I propose here are not about a major change in how the sprain system is pretended to be or how it was envisioned, but a way to make the player more pro-active on preventing sprains. Now it is just 'avoid sprain risk indicator', and that's all. It feels lackluster.

And even if the mechanic itself is working fine, one of my points is still undeniable: painkillers are still obsolete. They have no purpose ingame. And that's definitely wrong.

In conclusion, even if you are convinced that the sprain system is perfect, there is no conflict between what you exposed and my vision. Even if such depth and realism was added into the mechanic, all what you just said would still be true and totally functional. It would all come to personal choice, wether you want to planify and gamble climbing a cliff, or just avoiding the risks at all cost following your reasoning. And that's the game at its best: making decisions and assuming risks in order to survive. This is the world, these are your tools, survive as smartly as you can. The current message regarding this topic is 'don't climb cliffs', and it doesn't fit the game philosophy imo.

Edited by Danielviomusic
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10 minutes ago, Danielviomusic said:

The current message regarding this topic is 'don't climb cliffs'

That's not my message at all.  My message is simply... if you climb steep slopes, don't be surprised if you get a sprain.
 

11 minutes ago, Danielviomusic said:

painkillers are still obsolete

Absolutely correct (for the most part). :)  I never intended to imply otherwise.
While painkillers aren't necessary for most purposes (considering you can simply rest to "heal" sprains)... they are  still valuable if you get trampled by a moose (in this case, some kind of painkiller is required for the treatment of "broken ribs").

 

39 minutes ago, Danielviomusic said:

even if you are convinced the sprain system is perfect

Never said it was perfect... I just said I think it's fine.  I think it does what it sets out to do, and it seems that it's working as Hinterland intends (otherwise I'm sure they would change it).


:coffee::fire:

On 12/21/2019 at 6:21 AM, ManicManiac said:

I love the discussion of ideas and the exchange of points of view.

I've made posts in the wishlist subforum in the past as well, but the longer I played the more I came to understand (or at least by my estimations) and respect why things were implemented the way they were.

To be clear, there have been ideas here that I have very much supported... the other's I have just weighed in on with my perspective.  I think it's equally valuable for any developer to hear from both sides of an idea or opinion.  I seem to have a much different perspective on the game as a whole than a lot of people on the forum.  Which I suppose has caused some to assume I'm against changing anything... which is not the case.  In the end, I trust Hinterland to do what's best for their game... so if they see fit to change things, then great.  I've not objected to anything they've changed, even though I've not always agreed with the changes... I've accepted them and took the challenge of adapting my playstyle to overcome those decisions I initially didn't like.  I didn't fuss about it... I chose to embrace it, and as a result I've become much happier with the game.

I do feel (that at least to some degree) I understand and can appreciate the choices that Hinterland has made with their game... and I think a voice expressing that is not harmful, but provides a counter balance to all the voices who do what to change things based on their own personal preferences.

I don't condemn other's for their opinions, I just don't always agree with them because I try to understand and appreciate why Hinterland makes the choices they do.  To me player choice is more powerful at adjusting the experience than wanting to change the game itself.

 

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I guess I'll start subtle: I hate the current sprain system!

Besides the strains themselves, the constant alerts and warnings add significant unneeded stress to the game and it discourages exploration.  You don't have to be a mountain goat to get a strain.  I got a strain while collecting twigs in the enclosed area in front of the Carter Hydro Dam.  Another player posted recently that he got a strain while harvesting a carcass--twice!   More importantly, from my personal experience, the current system is not realistic.  For a couple of years a long time ago, I and two friends went backpacking almost every weekend, with a few extended expeditions.  We were planning a two week trip to the Snake River region when my friends suddenly got married and escaped to Texas.  All together, we spent several hundred hours in the wilderness. Although we certainly experienced many issues, none of us ever got a sprain.

@ManicManiac, spoke of the power of player choices--I agree.  Personally, I would like to see either an option to disable the sprain system (like that currently available for the auto walk feature) or the ability to earn badges in Custom mode.  Although there would likely be those who would abuse it, they do not harm others, so I don't see a downside to it.

// End of rant //

Actually, I should add that in a separate post, several of us discussed this issue.  Although we did not all agree, all were courteous and respectful.  I just wish we could have more of that in the real world.   :)

 

Edited by Vince 49
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I grew up on the Niagara Escarpment. It is very high and steep. You will be shocked to learn that as a child I sometimes went tobogganing. This is a process where you walk up and slide down long steep slopes every few minutes for hours on end until your snow pants are soaked through and beginning to freeze and you have to go home. Today in Timberwolf Mountain I was just standing on such a slope behind the Mountaineer’s Hut, just over the ridge near the edge of the map. Standing still, looking around and *snap* I sprained an ankle. So I limped around the hill and back to the hut and slept for three hours. That cleared one aspect but there was another hour on the other. I passed-time for an hour, but the pain or sprain, time didn’t tick down. So I passed time again… nope. So I slept for another hour and it cleared. It was not thrilling gameplay.

You can talk of choices, but there is no way to get to that part of the map without being on the toboggan slope. So choice is not in it. And I am not even averse to the mechanic in a basic way. I have turned my ankle hiking. Hell, somewhere there are photos from the 90’s of my foot looking like a swollen blue and purple corpse bloating.

But this is a game and just getting a sprain at random when you are doing nothing that could possibly cause one actually defeats cause and effect, replacing it with dumb luck. And this betrays something odd about the way sprains are calculated.

  1. Sprains should not happen when you are standing still. They should not happen unless you have been moving for longer than a minimum time. That way you could actually choose to be careful.
  2. Sprains should not happen when you are crouched. That would be a way of being careful that would have a movement cost.
  3. Sprains should never happen on small drifts or piles of snow anyone could easily walk over; piles of snow kids would happily play in and on.
  4. I should be able to slide down a snowy slope shouting, “yyiiiipppppppeeeeeeeeeeeee!”

But the thing here is, hey, some people want the game to be arbitrarily penalizing. Some do not. For the love of TLD, add game save settings to the options, so that sprains can be toggled down or off until the system is fixed. Same for Cabin Fever.

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I'll be the guy who (annoyingly 🙃) points out that you can turn off sprains in Custom Settings.  Get all your Feats and several dozen sprains playing a preset difficulty, then you can be considered to have the training and boot building skills to hike around Great Bear without getting hurt in that way.  I always have sprains off and I like it much better, although during the Winter's Embrace event, I just made room for bandages and pain pills and kept going.  It was a necessary adaptation to speed up the search for all the maple syrups I didn't find.  😄

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I always disable sprains. I don't find them fun or anywhere near believable. If they were changed to be 100 times less frequent but also far more crippling and long lasting I would try them again but that's not going happen until mods and then only hopefully.

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On 8/11/2020 at 12:59 PM, Danielviomusic said:

I've been playing quite a lot lately (I already have nearly 200h playtime, and own the game since full release), and I've been struggling with the sprain system. The sprain update 2 years ago was an improvement for sure, but it still could use some work. Briefly, here are my thoughts on the current system and its issues:

  1. Painkillers are now useless. I can't recall the last time I used painkillers. Everytime I get a sprain I just use bandages and then carry on, utterly avoiding pain dissease. It will even disappear by itself after a few hours without sleeping.
  2. It is way too RNG and there's no way to avoid it. While improving survival skills may reduce risks on contracting some disseases, such as cooking on intestinal parasites, there's no way around the possibility on getting a sprain when walking up a hill. While in most of disseases you can pretty much foreshadow when you are gambling or what are the odds, this is not the case with sprains.
  3. It is not realistic. I know all in all it's a puzzle game feature, where the game punishes you for taking risky routes and thus makes it harder to avoid wildlife or get to loot. But the game pretty much always tries to maintain a good equilibrium between realism and game balance. This feature is pretty much game punishment only.
  4. Ultimately, it is not fun. The way this feature works is tedious. Walk through a hill -> sprain an ankle -> stop to treat it -> carry on -> sprain it again since you're still in the hill -> repeat. It just doesn't work.

 

  1. Mr. Moose would like a word with you. Painkillers remain one of the ingredients to cure broken ribs. Without them (or rose hip tea), Broken Ribs cannot be cured.
  2. All aspects of risk in videogames involve RNG. It's called a "sprain risk" for a reason. And yes, there is a way to avoid it. There's a "danger: slope" indicator that appears in the lower right portion of your HUD when you're walking up a slope with too steep a grade. Certainly, it makes travelling certain routes risky, but it is absolutely avoidable. I have no sympathy for gamers who take a risky route and complain they got a sprain. You were warned.
  3. If the sprain mechanic didn't exist as it currently does, the only way to get them would be from wildlife attacks and falls. You should be thankful that this game is as forgiving as it is, for being a game set in a wintery apocalypse, there's zero risk of ever slipping on the ice and injuring your wrist, ankle, or hip as you try to brace your fall. I believe the sprain mechanic exists as a way to counter that. Can you honestly say you've never been out walking and just rolled your ankle by accident? It's not a pleasant experience.
  4. It does work, you're just not giving the mechanic the respect it deserves.
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I've never sprained or hurt my ankles. I am 38. I tried walking up a mountain this year with a big backpack full of weights. I think it was a little under 20kg. It's hard work, our character is an endurance champ.

I did sprain my hand when skiing once. I couldn't grip things properly and it lasted for weeks.

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I don't like sprains in this game. (doesn't help that I actually do mountain scrambling on the regular, here in BC, and have never had a sprain) The thing that bothers me most is how it's pretty much unavoidable in certain areas or doing certain tasks. Can't get to many cairns without going up a stupid slope, for example. Turning sprains off defeats feats, so that's a no-go.

 

I'd have it tied to footwear, and/or some sort of skill, which would be tied to how many steps on sprain slopes, climbing ropes, exercise in general, something like that. I'd also like such a skill to also be related to how tired you get while climbing a rope. Shouldn't get that tired from it every single time, forever.

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So up to this point, everyone who has commented is either defending it just because there is a warning indicator, and that alone apparently makes the mechanic totally fine; or confessing they've turned off the sprain system.

Personally, I like to play in default settings for each difficulty, since I believe it's the way the game is meant to be played. But that doesn't mean I can't think a particular feature doesn't work well.

@GothSkunk regarding your answer, 1. the reason why painkillers and rose hip are so abundant is because they were intended to treat sprains. I've never had any broken ribs, it's a matter of keeping your distances with Mr. Moose. There is no justification for the amount of those especific resources out there with the current usage they are given, hence it's kind of a flaw in design. 2. Yeah I've already been answered about the warning indicator, and a red alert sign isn't any solution for something which is flawed in design. Blaming the player for assuming risks is NOT a valid argument for when those risks are poorly designed. 3. I'm totally fine with adding those factors you're talking about. That's precisely my point: adding more interest to the mechanic, making it more complex. Obviously, more risks mean more ways to avoid them. 4. I described a frequent sprain-related situation which is unfun. I'm sorry, but saying 'yeah it does work' is neither a proper answer nor an argument. I'm being respectful with the mechanic, and that's why I'm analizing it the best way I can and exposing what I think doesn't work. Answering 'it does work just watch the warning sign lol' is far more disrespectful imo, specially considering there is so much people who are reportedly not enjoying the current system.

Adding depth to a game feature is never a bad thing. For those defending so blatantly the current system, no one suggested to do a complete rework. Neither I pretended to say it was bad. I just thought of some ways to add on the current system to make it feel less lacking and more fun. To put it into perspective, how does it sound if the food condition was substituted by a yellow danger sign when it's below 50% and you just randomly got food poisoning out of nowhere? It would feel lacking, wouldn't it? This is pretty much the same logic. Tbh I enjoyed the previous sprain system better, but I think the current one could be the best if some depth was added to it.

Edited by Danielviomusic
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On 8/15/2020 at 2:19 AM, dahemac said:

You will be shocked to learn that as a child I sometimes went tobogganing. This is a process where you walk up and slide down long steep slopes every few minutes for hours on end until your snow pants are soaked through and beginning to freeze and you have to go home.

Something my kids and I do every winter if we get a decent snow. Even my 4 year old can manage this. Up and down over and over, no sprains. LOL

I agree with @Vince 49 the sprain system does add significant stress to the game and discourages exploration. Which seems counter to what the game is about.

For me, the main thing that bothers me is the jump scare effect that the current sprain system has. It startles me every time. I jump in my seat, mouse goes wild. The few times my 8 year old has briefly watched me play, he nervously warns me about the sprain indicator non stop because he's also nervous about how startling it is. Even more than encountering a bear or wolf.

I find the frequency has become much more reasonable and I don't think it should be removed from the game. But perhaps make it less startling.

I love, love, LOVE @Danielviomusic's idea of a mountaineering skill which would level up and reduce sprains. That would be AWESOME. At max level you'd never sprain and never even see the stress-inducing slope indicator. Man that would be a great feature.

Edited by Sherri
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On 8/17/2020 at 10:35 AM, Danielviomusic said:

 

@GothSkunk regarding your answer, 1.  blah blah blah blah blah blah blah de blah blah de blah blah hence it's kind of a flaw in design. 2.blah de blah blah blah de blah blah flawed in design. blah de blah blah de blah poorly designed. 3. I'm totally fine with adding those factors you're talking about. That's precisely my point: adding more interest to the mechanic, making it more complex. Obviously, more risks mean more ways to avoid them. 4. I described a frequent sprain-related situation which is unfun. I'm sorry, but saying 'yeah it does work' is neither a proper answer nor an argument. 

You keep saying this term, or some derivative of it: "flawed in design." I do not think it means what you think it means. Players are warned by the "Danger: Slope" indicator when they're walking up or down a slope that could cause them a sprain. They're also warned that they are at greater risk of a sprain when they're overencumbered. It's working as intended. Asserting that it's a "flawed design" in the manner that you're doing is akin to someone drinking from a container that specifically says "Do not drink," or eating the tiny silicon packets in a pack of beef jerky that specifically says "do not eat," and then complaining when they get sick.

And yes, saying "yeah, it does work" is absolutely a proper answer and argument, because it demonstrates that I understand what the game is feeding back to me, and I make me gameplay choices around that feedback. I minimize risk by avoiding steep slopes wherever possible. When it's unavoidable, I accept the risk that I might get a sprain, all the while looking for the shallowest section in the slope to avoid it.

The problem is not with the game design; the problem exists between your keyboard and your chair.

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On 8/17/2020 at 11:35 AM, Danielviomusic said:

Personally, I like to play in default settings for each difficulty, since I believe it's the way the game is meant to be played. But that doesn't mean I can't think a particular feature doesn't work well.

 Each to their own of course, but the existence of Custom Settings opens up a wider array of ways the game can unfold.  I would encourage players who haven't yet to try it.   With sprains off, I'm definitely more bold with climbing and have more falls, so it's not necessarily just about avoiding an annoyance.   

On 8/17/2020 at 11:35 AM, Danielviomusic said:

how does it sound if the food condition was substituted by a yellow danger sign when it's below 50%

I've gotten food poisoning from 60% venison, so whatever the warning/information system is, there's going to be unforeseen mishaps (which is good).  I would be fine with what you hypothetically suggest, since it's actually more representative of incomplete knowledge of food condition.  At least until we get smell-o-vision. 😄

On 8/17/2020 at 11:35 AM, Danielviomusic said:

and you just randomly got food poisoning out of nowhere?

If there's a warning, you wouldn't be getting something randomly out of nowhere.  It would be cause and effect based on probability.

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I've been watching the show "Alone" and this season a guy had to go home on day 4 because he wasn't careful and fell and broke his leg. Just sayin' the sprain system could be meaner.

I do agree that painkillers are not terribly useful anymore, AFAIK they are only needed in case of broken ribs and burns which are both pretty avoidable. A video game character's "pain" means nothing to me if it doesn't apply gameplay pressure to solve it. Right now it only blurs the vision a little at the edges, maybe if it dropped my carry weight or something I'd pay attention.

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On 8/19/2020 at 11:09 AM, GothSkunk said:

You keep saying this term, or some derivative of it: "flawed in design." I do not think it means what you think it means. Players are warned by the "Danger: Slope" indicator when they're walking up or down a slope that could cause them a sprain. They're also warned that they are at greater risk of a sprain when they're overencumbered. It's working as intended. Asserting that it's a "flawed design" in the manner that you're doing is akin to someone drinking from a container that specifically says "Do not drink," or eating the tiny silicon packets in a pack of beef jerky that specifically says "do not eat," and then complaining when they get sick.

And yes, saying "yeah, it does work" is absolutely a proper answer and argument, because it demonstrates that I understand what the game is feeding back to me, and I make me gameplay choices around that feedback. I minimize risk by avoiding steep slopes wherever possible. When it's unavoidable, I accept the risk that I might get a sprain, all the while looking for the shallowest section in the slope to avoid it.

The problem is not with the game design; the problem exists between your keyboard and your chair.

Well I don't know if it means what I think it means since I'm not a native English speaker. I try to express myself as clear as possible to give an insight of my ideas though. And I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I can't agree with anything you just said. You're just relying upon a warning sign to counterargument everything, even if it's not directly related to it, such as painkillers' lack of uses. Even if all my ideas were implemented, you'd still be able to do the exact same thing you describe: avoiding or accepting the risk. It's a matter of adding interest and depth to the game feature. All in all I feel as if we were talking about different things, like convincing someone taking an umbrella is wrong when raining because you can stay at home and avoid the risk of getting soaked. Even if you prefer to avoid risks, it's totally fine if people out there are given the right to make a choice instead of an already done decision.

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eh, I think it works just fine. I typically only get sprains when I'm expecting to. I may be crossing my fingers as I shuffle down a super steep slope to avoid wolves or what not, but when the sprain triggers I'm neither surprised or annoyed. To me it's no different than eating a can of 50% peaches and getting food poisoning. It's a gamble of doing something you know is risky, out of necessity, and getting bit in the butt... I also avoid being over-encumbered whenever possible, ever by .1 kg.

Just my opinion though!

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/19/2020 at 2:09 AM, GothSkunk said:

You keep saying this term, or some derivative of it: "flawed in design." I do not think it means what you think it means. Players are warned by the "Danger: Slope" indicator when they're walking up or down a slope that could cause them a sprain. They're also warned that they are at greater risk of a sprain when they're overencumbered. It's working as intended. Asserting that it's a "flawed design" in the manner that you're doing is akin to someone drinking from a container that specifically says "Do not drink," or eating the tiny silicon packets in a pack of beef jerky that specifically says "do not eat," and then complaining when they get sick.

And yes, saying "yeah, it does work" is absolutely a proper answer and argument, because it demonstrates that I understand what the game is feeding back to me, and I make me gameplay choices around that feedback. I minimize risk by avoiding steep slopes wherever possible. When it's unavoidable, I accept the risk that I might get a sprain, all the while looking for the shallowest section in the slope to avoid it.

The problem is not with the game design; the problem exists between your keyboard and your chair.

The problem is the game causes you to get a sprain on a slope that isn't even as steep as my back yard. I've never had a sprain.

"works as intended" /= "sound design"

The problem indeed exists between the keyboard and a chair... just not the particular ones you're referring to. Argumentum ad verecundiam (authority = devs, in this case) is not a sound argument. Improvement is possible here.

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3 hours ago, Kranium said:

The problem is the game causes you to get a sprain on a slope that isn't even as steep as my back yard. I've never had a sprain.

"works as intended" /= "sound design"

The problem indeed exists between the keyboard and a chair... just not the particular ones you're referring to. Argumentum ad verecundiam (authority = devs, in this case) is not a sound argument. Improvement is possible here.

I disagree. And I hope the devs do too.

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Something occurred to me recently.  Earlier in this topic, I suggested that having an option to disable strains would be great.  However, if the developers don't want to do that, maybe they would be willing to provide an option to turn off all alerts and warnings about strains.  Getting a strain every once in a while, although startling and not too realistic, isn't all that bad.  The part that drives me nuts is the constant warnings and the red feather of tripping.  I could do without those.  :)

 

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