Chosen character influences gameplay

[ChillPlayer]

[offtopic]Beside that, I like how the man curses in handfights with wolves: "I kill you, then I eat you" :lol: :twisted:. Where as the Lady only say "get away from me, get away from me". Speak about stereotypes... Don't know why this escaped me but it was the reason why I chose the settings in the initial post the way they are presented, the game portays the Lady already as being weaker.

And I would partly agree with that as a general statement. It might not be true in a specific case, I'm sure there are millions of women who are stronger and endure more than I do. But seriously, considering that they have the same skills, would you find a mix martial arts fight between a man and a woman fair? Would a football (soccer or american) match between women and men be fair? How about weight lifting contests? There are differences between the genders and I don't see why referencing them should be a problem. Difference does not ultimately mean the one is better than the other, just different.

I specifically put this in OT tags because it's not what this thread is about. But nevertheless I was thinking about what others posted regarding gender and this is my view on the topic [/offtopic]

[TarjaS]

I'm playing as the female, because it's the natural choice. Before the option was there, I thought of the guy as a voice in my head, because it felt really strange to be playing this kind of a first person game as a guy. Usually I have no problem with that, but this feels so real that it felt odd to hear a male voice. However, I definitely want all the same abilities. IRL, I'm so broken physically that it's great to do all that stuff virtually.

[Myroslav]

[offtopic]Difference does not ultimately mean the one is better than the other, just different.[/offtopic]

I agree with you. talk about feminism and that feminists will complain about the game it is doubtful. men and women have strengths and weaknesses. if the devs will find this balance there will be no controversy.

[harobed1156]

As a feminist, I would complain LOUDLY if female characters were disadvantaged in any way. For example, the original suggestion that females might carry less but run faster would be a disadvantage to me. Like TarjaS, I play the female character because its the natural choice, hence my suggestion we choose a voice separately from other characteristics. I have accomplished many things in my life that the average man could not, so arbitrarily being assigned to a weaker team in a fictional soccer game is worse than just obnoxious and callous. I've had to buck stereotypes since the 1960s and I sure won't be recreating those experiences in a game.

[ChillPlayer]

So being able to run faster and slower fatique raising is a disadvantage in your book? In other words what you are saying is exactly what you're opposing: men are better and if the woman is not exactly like the man, she is automatically worse.

However, many solutions to this "dilemma" have been already proposed in this thread, none of them enforce any stereotypes on the characters but enable us to experience the game differently, based on which char we choose. I would be satisfied with most of the proposals, just anything to bring some variety to sandbox play.

[harobed1156]

So being able to run faster and slower fatique raising is a disadvantage in your book?

Yes, of course, when it's at the expense of carrying 10kg less. Just think of how many more trips you'd have to make to fully harvest a bear, or even a deer for that matter.

In other words what you are saying is exactly what you're opposing: men are better and if the woman is not exactly like the man, she is automatically worse.

Don't put words in my mouth, that's not what I said you disingenuous [insert disdainful vulgarity of your choice here].

[Myroslav]

In any case, according to statistics, women are physically weaker than men, although it has other advantages.

But I think we have nothing to argue about it. Most likely devs offer us not play ourselves as male or female, and ready-made characters with their history. Like that, like, a woman watching a movie about a man or another woman (not like it very possible) that survives in the wild

[harobed1156]

According to statistics, wolves don't randomly attack humans. According to statistics, geomagnetic disturbances don't have permanent adverse effects on animals. According to statistics, wooden matches kept in dry containers don't degrade into garbage in 120 days. According to statistics, your health would fade rapidly if you lived on nothing but venison and water. I could go on ...

[ChillPlayer]

So being able to run faster and slower fatique raising is a disadvantage in your book?

Yes, of course, when it's at the expense of carrying 10kg less. Just think of how many more trips you'd have to make to fully harvest a bear, or even a deer for that matter.

Why doesn't it occure to you that on the other hand the woman can outrun a wolf where as the man cannot? The Lady in this example can run up to a wolf that's feasting at a deer, scare it and run away, then come back later for the meat. Sure she might need a trip more to bring everything home but she saved a bullet and got meat for free. I personally would definitely chose the Lady, much more advantages to long term survival.

[offtopic]To the rest you wrote: I, like many women, am over the traditional feminist points. Women have clear advantages over men in many places and they should embrace their femininity, not strive to mimic male behaviour by running around in business suits and short hair acting as sociopaths. That is already covered by men, try to offer something different.

You may wanna read up here how modern women see themselfs nowadays and how they wanna be recognized (all written by women):

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/225972

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/monique-svazlian-cpcc-acc/how-embracing-feminine-values-will-save-us-all_b_3391518.html

http://www.mweb.co.za/Entrepreneur/ViewArticle/tabid/3162/Article/6084/How-todays-female-entrepreneurs-embrace-their-femininity.aspx

I hope you recognize that I'm on your side, I just have another point of view that is less influenced by the (then needed but now antiquated) movement of the 60ies. And all women I know see it the same way, they want to be women and not wanna-be-man.[/offtopic]

[harobed1156]

[offtopic]To the rest you wrote: I, like many women, am over the traditional feminist points. Women have clear advantages over men in many places and they should embrace their femininity, not strive to mimic male behaviour by running around in business suits and short hair acting as sociopaths. That is already covered by men, try to offer something different.[/offtopic]

Whoa there ...running around in business suits and short hair acting as sociopaths, ...mimicking men, ...abandoned femininity .. are all 100% off-base, false, sexist assumptions on your part. Sounds like you're try to preach to women how they "should" behave to be accepted.

You're not on my side of anything if you think anyone has a right to do that.

[EternityTide]

Holy crap what have I started....

If anyone wants me, I'll be banging my head against the wall of the hydro carter dam, hoping fluffy will eat me before the flame wars reach their climax.

[Scyzara]

Holy crap what have I started....

If anyone wants me, I'll be banging my head against the wall of the hydro carter dam, hoping fluffy will eat me before the flame wars reach their climax.

Amen.

I want nothing less than to offend anybody (although I fear this will be perceived differently), but I really suggest to stop talking about feminism or gender equality. It hardly ever results in any form of acceptance for other people's point of view. This phenomenon is not limited to feminism, discussions about veganism/abortion/religion/gun control laws/(insert any other topic related to strong emotions or worldviews) are equally futile.

[harobed1156]

I agree. I thought suggesting letting players choose a voice for any character they want would render the subject moot, but I was wrong.

[ChillPlayer]

[offtopic]Well you shouldn't imply then that I am sexist, which seems to be a fixed idea you have of me for reasons beyond my recognition. You deliberately omit to answer why being able to run away from wolves should be inferiour to being able to carry more and you also suggest that my point of view is something I've pulled out of my ass instead of just reading the articles from renowned woman rights advocates (and women themself), which is what I was referring to.

As long as you only read part of my posts without understanding what I'm trying to tell you I see no point in continuing the discussion. If for some reason you want to continue, please do it via PM because I'm not interested in a flame war. I created this thread because I had an idea in mind and not to challenge someones belief or point of view regarding sexism.[/offtopic]

So let's have different chars male and female with different skills not bound to gender. Hinterland safes money in content creating, we get new ways to play the game, win:win I'd say

[EternityTide]

I agree with Chillplayer:

Non gender-specific skill sets which are different for each character

As a result, perhaps Anna should have more skill with shooting than Will (She spends more time in an environment that necessitates it) whereas Will has higher repair skill to start off with, as he has to be familiar with tools and repair methods to maintain his aircraft.

Now can we please cycle down the aggression people. This is not what the Hinterland forums are about. We are here to discuss and improve the game, not start posturing our personal beliefs and bashing other people's.

[harobed1156]

Isn't Anna a bush pilot too?

[EternityTide]

Not from what I've heard. In the sneak peek audio clip, she's acting as an air traffic controller, but there is no certainty yet. I'm just giving an example of how you could switch up the skillsets.

[ChillPlayer]

Not from what I've heard. In the sneak peek audio clip, she's acting as an air traffic controller, but there is no certainty yet. I'm just giving an example of how you could switch up the skillsets.

Please forgive my ignorance but which audio clip and where did you get her name Anna from? I'd much prefere that to calling her simply the Lady lol.

I like the idea of linking the characters ability to their background. I don't know what awaits us in the story but it was already said that there will be NPC's to engage with. In the sandbox we could choose from a selection of those NPCs, with their abilities linked to who they are in the story.

[EternityTide]

If you go to the Long Dark wiki, she is named as Anna

but the audio clip I cannot find atm, I'll see if I can find it, but it does bring about some interesting revelations.