Dogs, we need them.

[zacccoboy123]

It's been said time before and time again. 

I'd love to find a wounded dog in the outbuildings near the Pleasant Valley farmstead, Or outside a fishing hut in mystery lake, or the lake overlook cave next to the corpse?

You could put dead rabbit corpses in the area as evidence of the dog being able to eat meat and drink blood to stay alive.

You would need to gain it's trust, of course. A piece of meat for any animal handed directly to the dog? Breed wise, It would have to be a dog know for strength. I'm not talking about a Jack Russel or Spaniard, I mean a big dog. The Siberian husky, a dog know for surviving the harsh snowy conditions of the mountains. You'd have to feed and water it of course,

With a  not-so-new item, Dog food! Or steaks of meat, and water from a can etc. Practical purpose? Could hunt rabbits for you and bark at bad weather incoming. (It'd have to be a different bark to the wolf bark, that'd be confusing.) 

When you find it injured, you would need antiseptic and bandages. It'd take a few day's to earn it's trust. A "Dog bonding" Skill? Yes please.

It's body would change if it went a day without food, it'd whine and not be able to run as fast as rabbits, so it couldn't catch them, and making the player feed it to restore it's practical purpose. Without water for to long, it'd pant and whine, not move and the nose would be a visibly lighter and dryer colour.

That's all, Folks!

- Zaccoboy

[PurpleWolf13]

I would LOVE for this to be a thing in The Long Dark, but I can kinda see why it's not. The Long Dark is a game that takes place after a geomagnetic storm and its about total isolation and having to survive on your own, your only company mostly hostile wildlife. But I wouldn't protest if Hinterland added in a Siberian Husky companion (Siberian Huskies are my second fave dog breed) Maybe they could have it where there's a chance of the dog spawning in or not? Maybe the dog could follow you around or stay home if you want it to and try to protect you from wolves and bears when around you (in a fashion similar to Minecraft) Maybe depending on the difficulty you are on, the dog would need less or more food?

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by PurpleWolf13
Had to fix the spacing between paragraphs

[sonics01]

We are not supposed to openly promote any "unofficial" mods in this forum so I cannot talk details. But if you're interested, search for TLD fox companion mod. 

[Patriot]

I only play on xbox so I doubt I will be seeing any mods, but I love the idea of a dog companion. Feeding the two of you could be challenging, also treating if/when wounded by other wildlife.

[ManicManiac]

  

On 8/31/2019 at 5:37 AM, ManicManiac said:

but reasonably consistent with the lore of the game, even if we did find a dog... it would probably immediately try to eat our faces off due to the effects the aurora (in that carnivorous animals are preternaturally aggressive and blood thirsty)

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Joelle Emmily]

4 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

  

 

Black bears typically do not attack humans, rabbits are more apt to bite you than wolves... blah... blah... The Long Dark takes massive liberties with what's believable... an aurora strong enough to produce sustained voltage in a transformer, would also be strong enough to bath a person in enough x-rays and other high energy particles to kill them instantly, and computers would just melt... if the game's magic wand isn't powerful enough to make loyal dogs believable, then it's just not believable... And didn't you and I have this exact same argument 3 years ago?

 

EDIT: You'd also fry to a crisp due to exponential increases in UV and other lower energy particles reaching ground level.

Edit2: You'd also be blinded by white flashes going off in your retina from increased x-ray and gamma radiation...

EDIT3: Oh yeah, the atmosphere would be stripped away by stellar winds rather quickly!

EDIT4: Also, there seems to be a massive misunderstand of the science behind auroras, they are not caused by the earth magnetosphere, they're caused by highly charged particles falling into the earth's atmosphere around its magnetic force lines. Those charged particles then excite any atoms it comes in contact with, turning the planet's atmospheric gas into a plasma... kinda like how those novelty globes work. The only real electrical potential which an aurora could generate, is static electricity, or beta particle radiation, ie, free unbound electrons.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Joelle Emmily
Science!

[ManicManiac]

@Joelle Emmily

We may have, I don't keep track of everyone I disagree with on this forum.

In the event we did have this conversation already, I'm not interested in arguing with you... if you don't like the lore, that's fine.
Naturally, you can not like whatever you want.

You might be missing the point of fiction (at least in this context).
It isn't about matching real life...  that's why it's called fiction, because it's not real

Mosquitoes in amber are not a viable source dinosaur DNA (or virtually any DNA, really)... yet people still enjoyed Jurassic Park.

We don't agree, and that's okay.  We don't need to agree.
I think that if there are folks who want everything in their stories to be perfectly "realistic" might want to consider just consuming non-fiction media.

[Addendum]
Have you considered the possibility that the phenomenon may just look  like a common aurora?

Edited August 16, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Joelle Emmily]

Just now, ManicManiac said:

@Joelle Emmily

You might be missing the point of fiction.

 

And you may have missed my point, or ignored it entirely, there is nothing saying anywhere that a dog could not be your companion... and not attack you when the zombie aurora from space drive the other mammals nuts. Humans don't seem effect, nor are the dears or rabbits or moose... in the real world, moose are totally more dangerous than bear, they're just giant pricks... Maybe it's because we as humans, and rabbits as rabbits, are out of direct radioactive contact with the aurora, and so, don't go crazy... but that doesn't work because bear and wolves both den in caves and burrows... Maybe it's the stereoscopic nature or the predator's eyes... no, then it would also include us... Maybe it's the increased amount of white matter... Nope, still includes us.... Amygdala? No, we all have about the same size proportioned to our body... I go it! Maybe it's magic and they can make anything be anything. GREAT GIDDY GOD! It means we can have doggy companions if the studio so choose. Or if a modder does... I wonder if a modder has...

[ManicManiac]

@Joelle Emmily

...I'll try again to explain...

I think it's a fairly straight forward line of reasoning.

Bears are affected... check.
Bears are carnivores... check.

Wolves are affected... check.
Wolves are carnivores... check.
Wolves are canines... check.

Dogs are relatively closely related to wolves... (dog=canis lupus familiaris; wolf=canis lupus) ...check.
Dogs are canines... check.
Dogs are carnivores... check.

The line of reasoning is this:
"If wolves (canis lupus) are affected by the phenomenon... then it stands to reason that their close "cousin" the domestic dog (canis lupus familiaris) would likely be affected in a very similar way."

Edited August 16, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Joelle Emmily]

Just now, ManicManiac said:

@Joelle Emmily

"If wolves (canis lupus) are affected by the phenomenon... then it stands to reason that their close "cousin" the domestic dog (canis lupus familiaris) likely be affected in a very similar way."

Why does this stand to reason? What evidence do you have to support your conclusion? Or is it just supposition... which it is. You're assuming whatever mechanism  causes one species to be effected, would automatically affect another. They are lots of diseases and aliments which effect wolves which do not affect dogs, and vis versa... What do you base this analysis on, besides your guess. Did the devs say it would affect dogs? Would it affect a cat? What region of the brain is it supposed to be affecting? Or is it more of a hormonal imbalance? What artifact about the in-game aurora are you privy to, that the rest of us are not?

[ManicManiac]

@Joelle Emmily

I've already mapped it out pretty simply... I'm not sure why you don't seem to grasp the idea (other than perhaps you just don't want to because it seems you don't like it).  You know this isn't intended to be a scientific theory right ...  It's simply a line of reasoning that would seem to me to be consistent with the lore presented.
 

26 minutes ago, Joelle Emmily said:

What evidence do you have to support your conclusion?

I mean two can play that game, but it's kind of futile...    What evidence do you have to support your conclusion? 
 

Like I said before... we don't agree, and that's fine.  I'm not interested in arguing with you, nor am I interested getting stuck in circular conversation that doesn't go anywhere.

I mean I get it... some folks "wants a good-boy doggo."
This just comes down to a difference of opinion.  You don't think dogs would be affected for... whatever reason.  I think they would be affected... for the reasons I already outlined.

That's really all there is to it. 
You're not going to change my mind... and I'm not out to change your mind.  I was just trying to explain my point of view.

Edited August 16, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Joelle Emmily]

@ManicManiac

I have no conclusion, nor am I saying you are correct or incorrect, what I've said is, that this is a game, and if the devs, or a modder wanted to add a feature such as this in, they would... and that your reasoning is simplistic and faulty. You assume an intention which has not been stated by the devs, and you draw parallels with the real world, only to dismiss other real world explanations which do not fit your conclusion. You began with the answer you wish to be true, then drew your line out of the proverbial maze of wisdom and knowledge, utterly ignoring its boundaries. I truly pity you buddy, trapped in a 2 denominational would world of easy answers, devoid of depth and rich meaning... like an endless field of corn, homogeneous, unchanging, variationless... or like the man, hammering a screw into a board, because he can't find a screwdriver...

[ManicManiac]

@Joelle Emmily

This is a game... correct.

Whatever the creators want to do with their game, I will likely fully support.  I have for the about last 6 years.  My opinion on this topic is simply how the lore reads to me.  Given that dogs and wolves are so closely related, it would seem reasonable to me that dogs would be affected in similar ways to the other canines already in the game. 

There's no need for you to get personally insulting.  I don't think I have personally insulted you, so this would seem uncalled for.
Anyway, I'm not going to take the bait... and I certainly don't need any of your "pitty," so you can just keep that. 

I think at this point you and I are done with this conversation.
(specifically I mean the part where you and I are talking to each other - so let's be done now)

Edited August 16, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Admin]

Please refrain from arguing. Disagree and debate. If this thread doesn’t get back on topic we’ll have to close it. 

[Joelle Emmily]

Alrighty then. The topic of animal companionship, or even expended transportation, seems like a valid one, and was promised by hinterland in an old roadmap. In it, they suggested horses as a means of fast travel, and I'd assume having one would entail some interactivity... they might even follow you around when not in use... Dogs seem like a good idea, it would definitely make the game seem more comfortable, less lonely... and there's no real reason they should be specifically excluded, unless the devs see a reason too... But I think features and expansions on game play, such as pets or beasts of burden, are best solved with mods. If a mod existed where an individual could import a dog or whatever, it wouldn't interfere with the greater community's enjoyment of the base game, they could easily ignore it if they wished, or, participate after playing the baseline features. The power of mods.

[Patriot]

@Joelle Emmily Yes the power of mods. Mods are great, but few games support mods for consoles. Bethesda being the only company I know.

[sonics01]

@Joelle Emmily 

Wolf is a wolf, a dog is a dog. They are similar, right, but not the same. I read and read again about the lore of this game, the lore of "the Flare" governs nothing about genetic variation/difference between dogs and wolves, the sensitivity of aurora impact to different types of animals, the exact mechanism of influencing to animal behaviors based on different species. It says it only influences on predators, but never explains anything about the exact mechanism of how it influences on their brains and neural systems or whatsoever. 

"The Flare" influences on bears and wolves only in this game, though their genetics, brains, intelligence, the sensitivity to scent and noise, way of life, and way to hunt their prey are distinctively different. We cannot explain this difference between wolves and bears, and we cannot explain why deers and rabbits behave normally under the aurora. Nothing is explained from devs. Under this circumstance, any attempt to explain and stick to the specific way of dog behavior under the aurora of this game, just based on the wolf, is just a rough conjecture. And, being stubborn and force others to believe one's conjecture is just trolling and prohibiting free suggestions and ideas of this game in the "Wish List" forum. 

"The Flare" is just a game mechanics for the convenience of game design, to build the world, storyline, and help the difficulty setting of this game which does not force or rule anyone or anything to behave in a specific direction. I would rather use more imagination to other animal's behavior under the aurora. For example, it is not related to dogs, but I'm curious if any mod can describe the bird as being a dangerous threat under the effect of the aurora, make them steal player's meats on the ground when the aurora is in effect. This is just an example of my imagination, nothing serious, but I believe such funny and silly discussions "may able to" something great in the future. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by sonics01

[Patriot]

@sonics01 I hear you there, I considered this when writing my dog sled/wolf taming proposal. If you have a tamed animal I imagine they would go feral during an aurora. In my opinion this can lead to a chance of them not returning by being killed or simply forgetting about you (sad, but their mind is being affected), but after the aurora they'd try to return. I don't see a problem with this. Alternatively, if through the story there was a discovery to block the effects of the aurora on the "predators" that may be an interesting way to go about things.

 

[sonics01]

1 hour ago, Patriot said:

If you have a tamed animal I imagine they would go feral during an aurora. In my opinion this can lead to a chance of them not returning by being killed or simply forgetting about you (sad, but their mind is being affected), but after the aurora they'd try to return. I don't see a problem with this.

Good idea. In fact, one of the reason why I was reluctant to companion is because of the action of killing companion dog might bring unfair accusation of animal cruelty. But Fox companion mod escaped from that by creating "eternal" fox, which I think is also a brilliant idea. But I also like your suggestion too. During early days of arctic expeditions of early 20C, expedition teams used sledge dogs as a dual purpose - to carry sledges, and to prepare the "emergency" situation which I don't need to explain. The situation of characters in this game is dire enough to attempt such "emergency" measure, I think. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by sonics01

[Joelle Emmily]

Well, a dog going feral during aurora could be a plot point... maybe you have to tie your dog up securely during them and just let the insanity pass... or, if you leave him outside, maybe you lose him for a few in-game days until the two of your stumble upon each other again. Or my favorite, TINFOIL DOGGY HAT! Or maybe it only affects him when he's outside, but when he's inside he gets all nervous and whiny and you have to calm him down. There are literally endless story possibilities!

Also, at the risk of being pedantic, polar bears are the only predatory bears, all other bears are scavengers, and most are omnivorous, not carnivorous, and brown bears mostly only eat fish just before hibernation. Almost the only time a bear will attack, is when they're defending young, or if your overly disturb them. 9 out of 10 encounters at a campsite will result in a bear running away whining like a big dog. Moose on the other hand, are massive jerks...

EDIT: Grizzlies can also be jerks, but mostly won't attack if your keep your distance.

EDIT2: Personally, I'd want a cow companion/sled puller. I love cows, and since this is a farming community, they should be around. They're docile and loyal and when you look into their eyes, you know they love you... Of course, they really don't know you're going to put a pin in their head in a few years...

Edited August 17, 2020 by Joelle Emmily

[Patriot]

@Joelle Emmily I'd love a cow too, but I think the only place you could reasonably have one would be in the pleasant valley area since there is some hay there. Without the hay there just isn't enough vegetation to feed the cow, and that hay is finite (not even a collectible resource currently) so eventually you'll have to serve up some steak.

[Joelle Emmily]

17 hours ago, Patriot said:

I'd love a cow too, but I think the only place you could reasonably have one would be in the pleasant valley area since there is some hay there. Without the hay there just isn't enough vegetation to feed the cow, and that hay is finite (not even a collectible resource currently) so eventually you'll have to serve up some steak.

I'd dispute that. Cows... ones not on a feed lot, don't eat much more than dear, and certainly less than a herd of them. They can just as easily route under snow to find grass and old dandelion and so forth as a dear, and they can also eat the chuck from kills, such as bone, connective tissue, brain, and so forth. For the vast majority of human agriculture, we fed cows bits or other animals... and bits of themselves... which didn't turn out so great... but it is feasible. They can also eat wood, if you shred it up and soften it for them. Personally, I think that'd be a great time waster in game, whittling sticks or branches, soaking them in warm water for several days, then feeding Mooington the resulting mush. Her droppings might be good for something as well! Not to mention the milk! There's an African tribe that makes a paste out of a certain rock to feed to their cows(not the same species as here), which enriches its milk with minerals. Then they make a kind of slurry using the milk and a little bit of the animals blood. They can also very easily tolerate fish, shockingly well in fact! There's a youtube video with a rather beautiful Indian cow feeding rather happily, just search "cow eat fish". Just as a pack animal, I think it'd be well worth the extra work feeding and caring for it... in real life anyhow... it's such a shame the world doesn't end...

[Patriot]

Well having done a little reading just now supposedly deer eat about 2-4 (4-5 during winter) pounds of food each day where cows eat 24-26 pounds each day. Which I would quantify as being much more than deer being 5-6 times greater. The rest of what you mentioned I can't say one way or the utter.

[Joelle Emmily]

 

[Joelle Emmily]

Articles regarding wood shavings as cattle feed:

https://www.thegazette.com/2013/02/25/northeast-iowa-cattle-herd-thriving-on-sawdust-based-feed
https://www.theguardian.com/news/1999/oct/28/food.foodanddrink2

EDIT: Article outlining a moose's dietary requirements, which is approximately  10,000 calories or about 70 pounds of feed a day.

https://forum.americanexpedition.us/bull-moose-information-facts-photos-and-artwork

EDIT2: The Massai drink cows's blood and milk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aslbbvX5YvQ

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Joelle Emmily