Wolf survival vs. wilderness survival

[Scyzara]

If it's too easy, it's boring. If it's too hard, it's frustrating. As long as it stays in the middle, it's exciting.

I guess everyone would agree to this statement, however the problem is that different players consider different levels of difficulty to be "the middle".

That's probably due to unequal game experience (as a beginner you usually consider things to be much harder than a veteran), personality (some people are more fearful than others and will be excited by activities/routines that more courageous guys find boring), previous luck/misfortune while playing etc.

I personally wouldn't say I felt bored during my past 160 days of gameplay and I'm not even playing stalker .

Might be because I'm quite a coward and always play very carefully.^^

@thread topic:

I would agree that most dangerous/life-threatening situations I encountered were somehow related to wolf attacks, however I don't consider this a problem. If you don't want to deal with wolves and focus on surviving wheather conditions/managing food supplies, there's pilgrim mode for you.

It's really a pity everyone feels they HAVE to play stalker mode and don't acknowledge to themselves that playing a different mode might fit their personal needs better and would be more fun to them.

[TarjaS]

It's really a pity everyone feels they HAVE to play stalker mode and don't acknowledge to themselves that playing a different mode might fit their personal needs better and would be more fun to them.

Especially as Voyageur is the original mode, or close to it. I guess some people just have the need to be, or at least appear to be, really hardcore. The only reason I've considered Stalker is that I've been thinking of making a hilarious video of dying again and again. Kinda like it was at the beginning.

[Hylander]

I play Stalker because Voyageur (and by extension, the original single mode) was too easy (for me). Even Stalker gets easy once you get past around day 20-30, where you have crafted everything and have all the basic stuff you need. But with PV, its much more interesting playing Stalker (for me anyways), since it really isn't a daily grind of doing the same thing over and over again.

Right now in my current game (day 45), I hunt and kill a bear (which gives me enough meat to last 8-10 days). I spend a couple of those days harvesting the bear, and bringing all the meat back to the farmhouse, and cooking it. Then I spend 6-8 days exploring, mapping, and visiting. The map is big enough that it will be a long time before I feel like it is old hat (like Coastal Highway and Mystery Lake).

[ChillPlayer]

But with PV, its much more interesting playing Stalker (for me anyways), since it really isn't a daily grind of doing the same thing over and over again.

I agree with this, it took me a moment to overcome the shock of not having my food right out the door but I had the most intense moments ever in PV, this truly feels like real survival. Because hands down, would I be trapped in northern Canada, going on a daily hunt for wolves would be the last thing I'd do

[TLDFAN]

So I played another round on Stalker in 1.97 last night. Just to "evaluate" and see how it went. I made it 5.5 days. I have taken a different approach to my Stalker gameplay, new facets of this are.

I have completely given up trying to outrun wolves, and now it comes down to do I have a gun, knife or at least hatchet, if not I use the flare and drive them off if they have gone aggressive on me. Otherwise my modus is to stay very alert to wolves and constantly take the middle lane or path to give me the widest range of sight and longest lead times for any potential engagement.

In this latest adventure, I have come upon several downed deer already, and simply harvest the resources from those already dead kills. As I made my way to unnamed pond, I witnessed a wolf take a deer and I killed the wolf, filled up on both the deer and other wolf. Another wolf came to attack, terminated him too, missed but got him with the knife. So I was sitting on all that raw meat. I had found the prybar, small tools, gun, ammo, and knife inside of two days simply spawning near the camp office and checking it out and then meandering to the trappers.

I still do not concretely know the way from Trappers to Camp Office LOL.

In any event for the first time in a long while with a very low condition I was able to sleep outside. When the weather turned bad the next morning I moved to another more secure position and built a 2nd fire, It lived for another few hours and then the wind shifted again and it dropped to 9 min. Every time adding wood it would burn for 9 min and then it was going to go out. Finally I struck out across the pond up the frozen creek to the hill which branches left and right, I went left as the sun came out and located a dead wolf. I began to harvest it and as I did lost some more condition on my own fault there. Eventually I was trying to build a fire and had failed once, was on my 2nd attempt, was probably going to die anyway because the wind had kicked up pretty good and I was in the single digits, but then I heard it. The bark and then growl and soon enough as I was trying to have Annie get my gun. Boom he took a big bite out of my face and it was over.

Good Game Wolf

I do want to make light of one thing, seems that wolves vary in terms of how much they are in an area, they seem to be more free range now. I do not know if this was a change in one of the fixes or the patch but I like it.

[bikingviking]

When I started this thread I hadn't yet found the way to Pleasant Valley. Several people said it had fewer wolves, harsher environment so I went and checked it out.

Within two days of arriving I ran out of food. Went on a desperate mission to find some. Starved. Got caught in a storm. Ran around blindly trying to find my way back to the farmstead, and died of exposure on the doorstep.

F* YES! This is exactly what I wanted. Hope there's more where this came from.

[bikingviking]

Eek I do have to emphasize that while I only die from wolf attacks, I DO NOT think wolves are too hard. I just think the other "Could kill you" parts of the game aren't likely enough to actually kill you. While I want the game to make the environment and weather more of a threat, I certainly don't want this to happen at the expense of wolf difficulty.

I agree about wolf difficulty. I actually think they should be more difficult (this was discussed in another thread), they should spot you before you see them, and stalk you, and in some cases gang up on you in packs. They should be shadow ninjas, not zombies.

I just don't like wolf frequency. Especially in Coastal Highway, which is loaded with resources and crawling with wolves. I'd rather see a whole lot less of both.

The change in the newer updates where wolves respawn less might actually be a really good compromise. Taking one down without the gun (which is almost impossible to find in Stalker) requires an investment in first aid, clothing repair and risk of death. I'm much happier to take the chance if I know the area is safer for a while.

[pulkmees]

Houses should at least store heat from your own fire for at least a day.(the ones built with fireplaces)

Actually, the kind of fireplaces used in the game are very inefficient in retaining heat. You need a heat-storing fireplace, if you want it to keep the room warm long after the fire has gone out. Also, if a house has been cold for a long time, it won't warm up in a few hours. It's cold and damp and a little fire in an open fireplace isn't going to do much about that.

Well I´m aware they won´t warm up in a couple hours, I´m just suggesting at least some sort of benefit to burning wood for days.

Are the those kinds of fireplaces deliberately put there, so we shouldn´t be able to store heat ?

Because if the problem is the KIND of fireplace, then that can be easily changed, can it not ? I mean people lived there, they knew it was a cold climate.Nobody in their right mind would build crappy fireplaces in an environment like that.

And the houses don´t seem to have been damaged as well.

And even if they won´t change them, there are only a few who can actually tell if the fireplace is specifically designed to store heat.I´m assuming you know a bit about fireplaces.

[serahlicious]

Eek I do have to emphasize that while I only die from wolf attacks, I DO NOT think wolves are too hard. I just think the other "Could kill you" parts of the game aren't likely enough to actually kill you. While I want the game to make the environment and weather more of a threat, I certainly don't want this to happen at the expense of wolf difficulty.

I agree about wolf difficulty. I actually think they should be more difficult (this was discussed in another thread), they should spot you before you see them, and stalk you, and in some cases gang up on you in packs. They should be shadow ninjas, not zombies.

I just don't like wolf frequency. Especially in Coastal Highway, which is loaded with resources and crawling with wolves. I'd rather see a whole lot less of both.

The change in the newer updates where wolves respawn less might actually be a really good compromise. Taking one down without the gun (which is almost impossible to find in Stalker) requires an investment in first aid, clothing repair and risk of death. I'm much happier to take the chance if I know the area is safer for a while.

I've been playing on Stalker mode all day, and I keep dying within a day or two because of wolf attacks. Never from anything else. I love this game, but this ^^^ is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say! I love that the wolves are a bit more aggressive than they would be in real life, but they do act like zombies. They should be more intelligent, and not crawling all over the place with a little settlement full of resources around every bend.

What if they moved around the map a bit more, as well? There's always two or three at Unnamed Pond. Always. Why should they never leave certain areas?

This is my first day playing, but I really do feel like this game is more about wolf survival than anything else.

[TarjaS]

Well I´m aware they won´t warm up in a couple hours, I´m just suggesting at least some sort of benefit to burning wood for days.

Are the those kinds of fireplaces deliberately put there, so we shouldn´t be able to store heat ?

Because if the problem is the KIND of fireplace, then that can be easily changed, can it not ? I mean people lived there, they knew it was a cold climate.Nobody in their right mind would build crappy fireplaces in an environment like that.

And the houses don´t seem to have been damaged as well.

And even if they won´t change them, there are only a few who can actually tell if the fireplace is specifically designed to store heat.I´m assuming you know a bit about fireplaces.

I think the fireplaces are as they are, because that's the design used in Northern America, but my ideas are based mainly on what I've seen in movies and TV, so maybe some people there actually have more functional fireplaces. Here we consider open fireplaces mainly decorative and maybe providing some warmth at a summer house on cooler summer/autumn days.

You can see some designs of heat-storing fireplaces here: http://www.uunisepat.fi/takat/mallisto/ They're basically built of blocks of brick or stone with a small space for the fire and doors (with ventilation slots) closing that space to keep the heat in so it'll warm the stones, which will then retain the heat and keep the room warm. At my grandpa's house, they used to burn a batch of wood in each fireplace every evening and it kept the house warm enough even in colder winter days.

[klesh]

I dislike the antagonist wolves enough to play on Pilgrim mode only.

[ChillPlayer]

This is my first day playing, but I really do feel like this game is more about wolf survival than anything else.

yes after one day of playing - in Stalker (!) - one may come to this conclusion. Why do you think you need to start out with the hardest mode that expects you to know the terrain already in and out (so you know how to avoid them) and know how to fight wolves by hand and rifle?

I'd strongly suggest you first try to survive 50-100 days in Voyageur or even Pilgrim, then try Stalker again and revisit your statement

[TLDFAN]

Eek I do have to emphasize that while I only die from wolf attacks, I DO NOT think wolves are too hard. I just think the other "Could kill you" parts of the game aren't likely enough to actually kill you. While I want the game to make the environment and weather more of a threat, I certainly don't want this to happen at the expense of wolf difficulty.

I agree about wolf difficulty. I actually think they should be more difficult (this was discussed in another thread), they should spot you before you see them, and stalk you, and in some cases gang up on you in packs. They should be shadow ninjas, not zombies.

I just don't like wolf frequency. Especially in Coastal Highway, which is loaded with resources and crawling with wolves. I'd rather see a whole lot less of both.

The change in the newer updates where wolves respawn less might actually be a really good compromise. Taking one down without the gun (which is almost impossible to find in Stalker) requires an investment in first aid, clothing repair and risk of death. I'm much happier to take the chance if I know the area is safer for a while.

I've been playing on Stalker mode all day, and I keep dying within a day or two because of wolf attacks. Never from anything else. I love this game, but this ^^^ is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say! I love that the wolves are a bit more aggressive than they would be in real life, but they do act like zombies. They should be more intelligent, and not crawling all over the place with a little settlement full of resources around every bend.

What if they moved around the map a bit more, as well? There's always two or three at Unnamed Pond. Always. Why should they never leave certain areas?

This is my first day playing, but I really do feel like this game is more about wolf survival than anything else.

Unfortunately isn't really changing in the direction you and I would like. I've given up on "playing" Stalker, I simply evaluate it now. It is too cheap to play there. Some people like the threat and thrill, others thing the Wolf AI is "good enough" but I am hopeful they will continue to improve it. It does seem more varied which is good, and it does seem plenty aggressive, they are also more capable predators as well. However there are too many of them. The density of wolves in some of the areas where they are, in any area you can see 3 of them "patrolling" is simply too much.

A lone wolf is either alone or in a pack. If they are in a pack they stay in the pack.

[serahlicious]

This is my first day playing, but I really do feel like this game is more about wolf survival than anything else.

yes after one day of playing - in Stalker (!) - one may come to this conclusion. Why do you think you need to start out with the hardest mode that expects you to know the terrain already in and out (so you know how to avoid them) and know how to fight wolves by hand and rifle?

I'd strongly suggest you first try to survive 50-100 days in Voyageur or even Pilgrim, then try Stalker again and revisit your statement

I understand where you and TLDFan are coming from. I'm going to try Voyager when I get home from work today. I chose Stalker first because, normally, I will play a game on the "medium" or "normal" difficulty first; this time, keeping with the spirit of the game, I wanted to try the hardest difficulty first to see if I could survive, and give myself the maximum challenge. Maybe I'm just not up to it, or maybe the Stalker mode is not the hardest difficulty overall, but simply means more frequent and aggressive wolves. Maybe I'll change my mind after playing different modes and playing for longer periods of time, but I do like the idea of wolves behaving more as intelligent packs that track and stalk you from the shadows, rather than patrolling zombies.

[ChillPlayer]

Yes alot of people wish a more sophisticated behaviour with wolves but I think it's very hard to balance in a way that it will still be a challenge while also being fun. But TLD more than other games requires you to know alot about the environment and mechanics if you want to survive. You can try it in Voyageur and succeed, I started out in Voyageur myself and after 30-40 hours (RT) I decided to give Stalker a try. But only because by then I could already survive for more than 50 days and deal with the wolves so I don't get constantly killed by them. It took me another good 50 hours in Stalker to survive the first time for more than 100 days.

I personally think Pilgrim is only for people who want to stay in Pilgrim. If your goal is Stalker I believe you should start out in Voyageur. Wolves are there and they will attack you but in much lower numbers and you find more supplies. To be successful in Stalker though you need to know where the wolves are, how they react to your presence, how close from which direction you can approach and so on. None of this you learn in Pilgrim, there is only the mechanic and world to learn, with even more supplies to find.

But remember, in TLD you die alot, it's part of the learning curve. Try to learn from each death why you died and watch yourself surviving longer and longer

[TLDFAN]

Yes alot of people wish a more sophisticated behaviour with wolves but I think it's very hard to balance in a way that it will still be a challenge while also being fun. But TLD more than other games requires you to know alot about the environment and mechanics if you want to survive. You can try it in Voyageur and succeed, I started out in Voyageur myself and after 30-40 hours (RT) I decided to give Stalker a try. But only because by then I could already survive for more than 50 days and deal with the wolves so I don't get constantly killed by them. It took me another good 50 hours in Stalker to survive the first time for more than 100 days.

I personally think Pilgrim is only for people who want to stay in Pilgrim. If your goal is Stalker I believe you should start out in Voyageur. Wolves are there and they will attack you but in much lower numbers and you find more supplies. To be successful in Stalker though you need to know where the wolves are, how they react to your presence, how close from which direction you can approach and so on. None of this you learn in Pilgrim, there is only the mechanic and world to learn, with even more supplies to find.

But remember, in TLD you die alot, it's part of the learning curve. Try to learn from each death why you died and watch yourself surviving longer and longer

Not a whole lot of learning to be had when the primary cause of death is wolf attacks and the primary reason you encounter so many wolf attacks is there are so many wolves. There are very few areas you can traverse without wolves being omnipresent or effectively patrolling. It isn't even really varied, just a constant number of many wolves all over the place.

There is only one advantage to playing Stalker I can see and that is the number of carcasses laying around from all of Stalker Wolves killing fields.

[ChillPlayer]

TLDFAN you really should join my stream once. I run constantly all over the map without a single hand fight for hours, and I rarely have to shoot a wolf in self defense. Most times I encounter a wolf is when I want to. It's all about knowing how to move around the map, where to expect wolves and reading other clues for choosing a safe passage. From what you write there is one very important lesson to learn from your deaths: do what ever it takes to avoid wolf attacks

Please believe me, wolves are very manageable if you know how to avoid them. The real killer are blizzards and everything that follows. The last time I was killed by a wolf was about 6-7 games ago but also only because I was already down to 20% due to a blizzard.

Unfortunately there is not trick I can show you, there is no other way than to learn the map in and out and know where when how many wolves can appear. I walk the way from Camp Office to Trappers completely in the middle of the night, pitch black, because I know the way and how to avoid the wolves (just did this today on my stream). I also know where to expect them, when I was on the night trip today I was jumped by two green eyes close to the cabin, but I was prepared, kept my cool, threw a flare at it (yey that really works) and ran with the wind towards Trapper's. Would the wind've been in the other way, I'd have crouched and shot the biest.

You have to know the paths you walk and you always have to know how to react if a wolf jumps you no matter how careful you observerd the situation or how sure you are that there's never a wolf there. I'm sure you've read my guide, if not, please do

[serahlicious]

Don't get me wrong, I love the game and I love the wolves. I just really agree with bikingviking's ideas about improving their AI. I haven't survived for 48 hours yet on the Stalker difficulty, but that's exactly what I want. I don't want this game to be easy. It's beautifully brutal and I do learn from every death. I don't want to build up to Stalker, I want the closest thing possible to being thrown into this situation in real life. And for me, that means the hardest difficulty before I know a thing about the map. I'm not writing the Voyager mode off, and I'll probably try it very soon, in fact. I'm very new to the game, for sure, but from what I've seen and what's been said in this thread, I'm on the same page with bikingviking.

[TLDFAN]

TLDFAN you really should join my stream once. I run constantly all over the map without a single hand fight for hours, and I rarely have to shoot a wolf in self defense. Most times I encounter a wolf is when I want to. It's all about knowing how to move around the map, where to expect wolves and reading other clues for choosing a safe passage. From what you write there is one very important lesson to learn from your deaths: do what ever it takes to avoid wolf attacks

Please believe me, wolves are very manageable if you know how to avoid them. The real killer are blizzards and everything that follows. The last time I was killed by a wolf was about 6-7 games ago but also only because I was already down to 20% due to a blizzard.

Unfortunately there is not trick I can show you, there is no other way than to learn the map in and out and know where when how many wolves can appear. I walk the way from Camp Office to Trappers completely in the middle of the night, pitch black, because I know the way and how to avoid the wolves (just did this today on my stream). I also know where to expect them, when I was on the night trip today I was jumped by two green eyes close to the cabin, but I was prepared, kept my cool, threw a flare at it (yey that really works) and ran with the wind towards Trapper's. Would the wind've been in the other way, I'd have crouched and shot the biest.

You have to know the paths you walk and you always have to know how to react if a wolf jumps you no matter how careful you observerd the situation or how sure you are that there's never a wolf there. I'm sure you've read my guide, if not, please do

They are not at lethal as they were in 1.92. I still die to them but it is usually because I am not avoiding them, because I am in need of procuring equipment found only where they are on patrol. Or I am caught in a limited distance surprise engagement. I've been able to increase my survivability by staying middle of the path in some instances. If you are dying due to the environment, you are simply trying to go too far without warming up. I sometimes build a fire in as secure a location as I can to warm up and make water. In this way I do not need to carry much water which is usually very heavy compared to my other equipment.

There is some variety in the AI now which I appreciate, for instance, I was chased all the way back to the dam and then the wolf broke off the chase, kind of stood looking at me for awhile and then walked off. I can't explain that, might have hit some radius of action limit or maybe I simply experienced some new AI routine. They still are very susceptible to the flare, however sometimes they will ignore it and attack outright.

The whole mechanic of chasing an injured wolf that is bleeding while you have damaged condition is also very risky as often times you'll be jumped by another wolf at full health and its game over.

I very rarely die from the environment, in fact the ratio is still insane at least 50:1 wolf to any other cause. You can avoid them all you want however the simple fact is there are so many of them you cant. Mystery lake, at certain times, no wolves, then other times 5 wolves within sight. I mean come on. And what are they doing mostly they are doing their slow guard dog patrol. Wolves should either be stationary in a prowling manner, or on the move or looking around. When on the move they move quite a bit faster than the wolves in TLD. Only when they are charging you do they actually hit speeds of a real wolf. They are and should be faster than you. You can still outrun them on coastal highway though if you use the road which is lame. Frequently they are getting stuck in the landscape too.

They just suck less than they did in the 1.8-1.92 implementations. But there is room for improvement. They are however tolerable at present.

How is it you die from the environment so often? You get a good 3 hours in freezing weather? Yes it takes time to get a fire going and the warmth from that, but you can cook a can of soup or make tea, even those health teas you get a 100 calories and you also get your cold meter going down immediately which is a good side benefit. Try that. Also if you are starting a fire just to warm up/make water, do yourself a solid, use the magnifying glass if possible, any accelerant if able, to get it going ASAP, and boost your chance for next time, and then once you are slowly warming up, forage for wood while you are just chilling out. It doesn't hurt incase you end up stuck there if in a storm and you may as well leave the area with a fully fixed cold meter before moving on.

[ChillPlayer]

There's nothing that forces you to go through the lake when 5 wolves are patrolling and if something is because you need something immediately, then your mistake is getting into this situation in the first place. Otherwise, just wait until they are gone, ML Lake usually in the morning is only occupied by the one wolf near to Office Camp - but not always. If they are there in the morning, go sleep for some hours and check back. This applies to every place where wolves appear in packs (the method, not the time).

How is it that I'm dying so lot due to the environment? Simply put: because something has to kill me and wolves just don't anymore. As a rule of thumb, the lower your condition the more extra careful you have to be with e.v.e.r.y. step. At 100% I might pass a wolf I have insight and risk that he notices me. I know how to handfight it and will survive with >50%. But when my cond is low, I stay away from every place that only slightly reaks of wolf, never go in the middle of a path, always check from top of one hill if a wolf is waiting for me on the other hill. I'll do anything to not risk a fight. Most of the times at least, sometimes I'm reckless :twisted:

I don't think knowledge is your problem, it's just that you ignore it. If you see there are wolves, why do you go there? If you're in your camp with plenty of food, don't sleep/eat there until you have nothing, you always need to have water and food to survive at least 2-3 days so you are not forced to go through wolves. As luck often has it, a blizzard will spoil your first try to cross a section that is wolf free at the moment. So you have to wait another day, that's why you need to go looking for more supplies before you run out of them.

Seeing that after several weeks you still can't believe that people actually don't die from wolves I can only repeat my offer: I'll be streaming today in about 3 hours, ChillKiller Broadcast in steam, day 20 clearing CH. Come join and learn, ask questions or simply quietly observe. I believe your time is better spent there than writing another post about how hard wolves are

[FoneBoneJay]

There's nothing that forces you to go through the lake when 5 wolves are patrolling and if something is because you need something immediately, then your mistake is getting into this situation in the first place. Otherwise, just wait until they are gone, ML Lake usually in the morning is only occupied by the one wolf near to Office Camp - but not always. If they are there in the morning, go sleep for some hours and check back. This applies to every place where wolves appear in packs (the method, not the time).

How is it that I'm dying so lot due to the environment? Simply put: because something has to kill me and wolves just don't anymore. As a rule of thumb, the lower your condition the more extra careful you have to be with e.v.e.r.y. step. At 100% I might pass a wolf I have insight and risk that he notices me. I know how to handfight it and will survive with >50%. But when my cond is low, I stay away from every place that only slightly reaks of wolf, never go in the middle of a path, always check from top of one hill if a wolf is waiting for me on the other hill. I'll do anything to not risk a fight. Most of the times at least, sometimes I'm reckless :twisted:

I don't think knowledge is your problem, it's just that you ignore it. If you see there are wolves, why do you go there? If you're in your camp with plenty of food, don't sleep/eat there until you have nothing, you always need to have water and food to survive at least 2-3 days so you are not forced to go through wolves. As luck often has it, a blizzard will spoil your first try to cross a section that is wolf free at the moment. So you have to wait another day, that's why you need to go looking for more supplies before you run out of them.

Seeing that after several weeks you still can't believe that people actually don't die from wolves I can only repeat my offer: I'll be streaming today in about 3 hours, ChillKiller Broadcast in steam, day 20 clearing CH. Come join and learn, ask questions or simply quietly observe. I believe your time is better spent there than writing another post about how hard wolves are

You are missing the point. Before the Wolves were the central thing in the game there was the survival aspect alone. While we don't disagree that Wolves should be a component having 25 of them milling about in the way in which they mill about is not what I and many others like about the game. This isn't a pissing contest about who can deal with Wolves better.

Please stop re-framing it as that every time someone talks about Wolves. I wouldn't have an issue with 3-4 wolves or 1-2 wolves or maybe even a dozen on the map as a whole but it is over populated, and just having them patrol is so out of place as to be ridiculous. The death ratio of dying to wolf attack is thousands of times higher than any other factor in the game which means it is out of balance. Why is it out of balance? Because there are so many wolves and they are so lethal is what I'm saying.

Really honestly when will you actually read and listen and not infer your own idea on the statements made by others?