wewenzi

FORLORN MUSKEG UPGRADE

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Hello hinterland and comunity. Sorry for my english but. I love this game so I thought how to improve it.

One night I was wondering what is forlorn muskeg special. Sorry but I have to say nothing except it's a swamp. 

So I thought it would be good to add a beaver.

Maybe you think it's useless. But in real life his tail can be used as whetstone and its skin is very waterproof. Of course it also has meat.

For example from leather can be made waterproof socks and as I said from the tail whetstone (not high quality but usable). It would be very useful for late game.

But the beaver is not so easy to catch and could only be caught only with traps. Only in special places where we could see the entrance, for example, from the non frozen water.

It would also be very beautiful to model dams from branches and mud. Of course, some branches larger and smaller could be collected. And add some trees and bushes between the dams. Not much to make it always seem open. And specially fallen trees with beaver tooth marks.

And so I ask you could do something like this and even improve this amazing game? 

Thank you for reading and replying ❤️

819864203_tldbeaver.thumb.png.17ac0033161a3d5f00867cb4d5e8fcec.png

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I rather like this idea.  An alternative whetstone (strop) would be a welcome addition to the game.  I think I might be misunderating, but just in case... I wouldn't want to have the player collect branches in order to build dams.. I'll leave the building of dams to the beavers themselves (i.e. the devs could insert a few into the Forelorn Muskey zone.  They could also insert one or two into Mountain Town Regions (i.e. in the pond area behind the church or in the swampy area near the one wood lot and perhaps one in the Milton Basin.  There could also be another in TWM on the one end of the lake in the area beneath the Moose Overlook in Hushed River Valley.

A snare for catching the beavers could be added to the crafting menu.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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@UpUpAway95 Just like you say I like your idea with other regions. but I didn't think the player would collect branches to build dams. I meant that some of them could be taken without changing anything

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That would be a great deal of work for Hinterland.  I suspect that there are problems and other developments that  would be better use of their time.

 

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On 12/2/2019 at 1:19 PM, peteloud said:

That would be a great deal of work for Hinterland.  I suspect that there are problems and other developments that  would be better use of their time.

 

So? Doesn't mean it's not an interesting idea.  Give the guy a break, it's not bad. This is the place for ideas from players.

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Nice idea, I always like the idea of adding more animals and items to give players more variety and choices.

The fact that @wewenzi only mentions adding them to FM is interesting. It makes me think that it'd be cool to add a few animals to the game that are exclusive to certain regions. I think it'd be a neat way of giving players more reasons to travel around and get more out of all the regions. 

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I really like the idea of location-specific species. Large as it is Great Bear is an island so species that need more specialized environments would be more localized. Beaver don't hibernate so they would be around (just more active at night). A medium sized protein source and a highly water-resistant pelt would be a nice addition. Plus what is more Canadian than a Beaver?

 

Neat article: https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-03/vancouvers-former-olympic-village-now-home-urban-beavers

 

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On 12/7/2019 at 9:54 AM, Moll said:

This is even more Canadian:

Raccoon-Rob-Mueller.jpg

 

And Hat:

davy-crocket_fae76d78-b9a4-4e79-b313-a1e

Nah, I associate the Coonskin cap more with Davey Crockett and Tennessee (i.e. American imagery, not Canadian).  Beavers are  Canada's "national animal."   This may be what would make Hinterland perhaps hesitate to portray it in game as a food and hide/fur resource.  As I said above, though, I personally like the idea of adding it to the game.

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1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Nah, I associate the Coonskin cap more with Davey Crockett and Tennessee (i.e. American imagery, not Canadian).  Beavers are  Canada's "national animal."   This may be what would make Hinterland perhaps hesitate to portray it in game as a food and hide/fur resource.  As I said above, though, I personally like the idea of adding it to the game.

Not only that, but beavers can be dangerous. They have killed people before. They're not like rabbits.

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12 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Beavers are  Canada's "national animal." This may be what would make Hinterland perhaps hesitate to portray it in game as a food and hide/fur resource.

I guess this is the biggest reason I can't really see this happening. Just think about it: let's say HL actually implemented stray dogs into the game. Imagine the outcry if you could actually kill and eat them. And I think many people think the same about beavers. I mean .... there are enough people having trouble killing virutal rabbits. Now virtual beavers?

What I do actually like is the idea of dams, mostly to spice up the really bland landscape of the Muskeg. I've always wondered if there isn't anything that could be put into this feature deprived frozen waste. Well, I guess dams would be something.

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10 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

What I do actually like is the idea of dams, mostly to spice up the really bland landscape of the Muskeg

Right, even if it's decided that we can't kill the beaver, itd be nice to have evidence of it still existing. Like how we can hear loons etc. The Muskeg and monolith lake in Hushed River Valley would be a nice place to add it. 

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There's another slight issue with putting them in FM. It's a muskeg, which means it's a swamp. Beavers build where there's running water; more to the point, they build where you can *hear* running water (this has been tested and verified by Science!-ence!-ence!) You're not going to find beaver dams in FM because that's not the kind of terrain where you'd find them. A beaver dam blocking the outflow from Monolith Lake into the river that runs down towards the waterfall is the kind of place where one'd find a beaver dam. There's no obvious egress for the water in FM, but if there was that'd be the other place where one might find beaver dams. Hmmm, I guess you might be able to create a beaver dam micro-environment on Hat Creek in FM; that spot where the rocks narrow seems like it'd be a good candidate for damming and creating a beaver pond up in behind it. Down in the ravine in Ravine, or somewhere on the various rivers in HRV, or along the western side of TWM where there are rivers that flow down towards Crystal Lake, or any number of places in PV where the waters flow into the "square of rivers" from elevation would also be good candidates.

Having that kind of environment would be a cool addition, but... retrofitting them into appropriate places on existing maps would be a big job. I could see it being pretty cool to introduce them into the game, though.

Speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool Canadian, I personally don't have a big problem with the idea of hunting, killing, eating, and wearing beavers. 

--------8<--------

/me is having a hard time restraining himself from getting all up in the innuendo on this topic.

Edited by stratvox
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@stratvox, Yeah, thats why I suggested monolith lake because that seemed like a more believable area. But I didn't know the running water had to be audible! Hat creek seems a little steep for a dam. 

With beavers youd get a cool parallel/contrast to the hyrdro dam If they were put in the lower area in Milton, that water is what supplies hat creek. 

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1 hour ago, stratvox said:

There's another slight issue with putting them in FM. It's a muskeg, which means it's a swamp. Beavers build where there's running water; more to the point, they build where you can *hear* running water (this has been tested and verified by Science!-ence!-ence!) You're not going to find beaver dams in FM because that's not the kind of terrain where you'd find them. A beaver dam blocking the outflow from Monolith Lake into the river that runs down towards the waterfall is the kind of place where one'd find a beaver dam. There's no obvious egress for the water in FM, but if there was that'd be the other place where one might find beaver dams. Hmmm, I guess you might be able to create a beaver dam micro-environment on Hat Creek in FM; that spot where the rocks narrow seems like it'd be a good candidate for damming and creating a beaver pond up in behind it. Down in the ravine in Ravine, or somewhere on the various rivers in HRV, or along the western side of TWM where there are rivers that flow down towards Crystal Lake, or any number of places in PV where the waters flow into the "square of rivers" from elevation would also be good candidates.

Having that kind of environment would be a cool addition, but... retrofitting them into appropriate places on existing maps would be a big job. I could see it being pretty cool to introduce them into the game, though.

Speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool Canadian, I personally don't have a big problem with the idea of hunting, killing, eating, and wearing beavers. 

--------8<--------

/me is having a hard time restraining himself from getting all up in the innuendo on this topic.

I think that depends on how old the dam is...

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/news/article/largest-beaver-dam-on-earth-wood-buffalo-national-park-alberta-lac-st-clair

Looks like a lot of muskeg to me.

Then I found this article that explains how the beavers do build dams even without flowing water.  Hint:  It has to do with spring run-off.

https://ecoantdotorg1.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/beaver-dams-without-creeks/

Edited by UpUpAway95

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1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

That's because they created one... but, those dams are not built throughout the marsh they created; they are built around the edge where the water flows out.

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39 minutes ago, stratvox said:

That's because they created one... but, those dams are not built throughout the marsh they created; they are built around the edge where the water flows out.

So... whose to say Forlorn Muskeg wasn't created by dams built around an edge of a slight slope where the spring run-off once ran.  If you link from the first article to this page:

https://www.geostrategis.com/p_beavers-longestdam.htm

you'll find this:  " No surface water drainage can be seen. Water moves down the very slight sloping wetland. The (relative thin layer) of organic material of the wetland works as a sponge . The flow is slow and over a wide area of wetland which requires the building of very long dams. Many dams can be found in areas like this with lengths of 500 meters. Any dam over 600 meter remains exceptional. "

I don't think they necessarily have to plunk them just beside waterfalls or along the current rivers/creeks in the game.  IMO, one along an edge of the FM would be appropriate given this information.

I wouldn't put one at the base of Hat Creek, which is an ingress to the swamp, because the dam then would be causing the creek to back up the slope, not be causing the creation of the muskeg.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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With the introduction of the Milling Machine, repairing tools and weapons has another option. But whetstones are still too common for this to be remotely useful before anyone runs out of whetstones, at which point anyone would be bored out of their mind. Adding Beavers for their tail as a replacement for whetstones would be a reason to limit proper whetstone spawn, but they won't be very durable. 

Hinterland take notes, this is known as game balance. 

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On 12/13/2019 at 9:54 PM, Fuarian said:

With the introduction of the Milling Machine, repairing tools and weapons has another option. But whetstones are still too common for this to be remotely useful before anyone runs out of whetstones, at which point anyone would be bored out of their mind. Adding Beavers for their tail as a replacement for whetstones would be a reason to limit proper whetstone spawn, but they won't be very durable. 

Hinterland take notes, this is known as game balance. 

I'm actually out of whetstones in my long run game... well, I was until BI came along; I'm sure there are a few in there. However I'm pretty sure I've pretty much stripped the rest of the world of whetstones. I'm not bored yet... though I'll allow that the game has changed a lot since that guy was barely eking out an existence on days 1-50 or thereabouts.

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