Dum_Gen

December Survival Mode update teaser

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I don't think it's wise to speculate too hard on a picture of a cross. For all we know it could mean little to nothing to what will be in the update

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I've also seen where the percentage of the player base on each difficulty level was given, but I can't find it either.  Voyager was definitely the top by a strong margin.

In searching for that I found Mailbag #39 and it was asked "However, recently I've been noticing that people are able to survive years in Interloper and that got me thinking: Have you ever considered adding even a higher difficulty than Interloper?".  

Raphael answered: "I don't think adding another Experience Mode beyond Interloper is the right approach -- at least, I don't think that yet. My feeling is that if some players are surviving for very long on Interloper, there is something in the XP Mode that isn't quite working. It requires us spending more time analyzing how people are playing it, how some of them are managing to survive for so long, and then tweaking the tuning or revising the approach to make it more challenging."

The cross picture probably does mean nothing.  If it does then I will shrug and then look to enjoy whatever actually does come.

 

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5 hours ago, Karl Grylls said:

not even sleeping? oO

nope.. the only way to recover are stims and birch bark tea

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I posted a poll a while ago and the results showed Custom taking #1, Voyageur at #2, Stalker at #3, and Pilgrim tied with Interloper for last place at a very distant #4. Custom had 10x the responses Interloper did. And while some of those are probably people playing some crazy extremes like Deadman, I'm guessing most are just tweaks like eliminating sprains, making the time of day last longer, etc.  Streamers are gonna go with the more extreme difficulties because it attracts more viewers.  People actually playing for their own enjoyment, not so much it seems.

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I'm excited regardless.  I'll be fine whatever especially with the little fixes you're talking about. Though obviously some changes could help me enjoy the game even more - though I'm not always sure what those would be.  I try to keep an open mind.

Most the players are on Voyager because of natural game playing progression.  At a certain number of hours (this goes for all games) many move to a different game and TLD has a clear transition point of sort of mastering Voyager, which usually accompanies at least a solid grasp of moderate to advanced game tactics and knowledge of most of the maps.  Though some enthusiasts keep playing on Voyager because they like that style and others try for even harder challenges.  Obviously some move to Stalker earlier than that and others move right into Interloper.  And a great many move to a different game.

The Youtubers with large subs have been playing awhile so they play more advanced, naturally, but like ajb said the viewers don't always play those same modes.  Good poll on that and I also think there was something posted that used actual game data that reflected the same.  However, I do think there is some validity to the 10-20% thing at least insofar that I believe it's a bit higher than people think.  And there are YT viewers and players that may not show up on the "game data", which are playing interloper and very advanced, but play more intermittently or are sort of latent - which means to say they are more present than what appears and would be ready to play more/again.

I don't know how to work this into my reasoning precisely, but there is a good group of YTers that are a bit more hardcore that don't quite have the same viewership.  I mean they have a solid base, but nothing like the youtubers listed.  I'm thinking like turkeysteam, loonsloon, davemcd, michaelyork.  I think partly that's because the other YTers play other games in many of the cases.  Also, caveat - it's not like a clear line - I mean like Atheenon for instance is really good and is pretty hardcore and survive many days on the hardest settings.  The other players are good as well - no slight intended, just playing styles and what compels them. I don't know - the "other" group are just more into stuff like deadman, pushing things to the max and trying to play as well as possible and such.  My point being is that I think partly this reflects that niche of the niche reflected in the player base stats.

I want to be supportive of the whole spectrum.  I like the variety and we are all on the same team more or less as players and supporters of the game.

I think ultimately they want to have a game which appeals to all difficulties.  You improve the advanced player base then you can increase retention, but you can't retain advanced players if the game isn't compelling enough for players to stick around before that.  I'm speaking in relative terms, because obviously it's a great game.

 

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4 hours ago, stay puft said:

I have no clue what mode players play the most but it seems to me(could be wrong) that a lot of youtubers and twitchers play this at interloper or costume settings... even the people that do play stalker also sometimes switch to interloper.. people like Hadrian,Lonelywolf,Atheenon,splatterCatGaming and GreyStillPlays plus more are uploading interloper videos and If you search TLD in youtube these guys videos are some of the top videos shown which says to me that some of the more popular TLD streamers/youtubers out there play interloper at least sometimes... To end there's more of use then people think I believe we are around 10 - 20% of players which really is a fair amount overall.

Interloper or DMC is much more dramatic, harried, and likely to produce near-death experiences and death defying moments, especially in early game. So of course streamers play Loper. The more drama you can put into your videos, the more people these days seem to want to watch it. Pilgrim would be a rather boring stream, without much action. Voyageur would seem too "easy"and would not show off the skills (real or imagined) of a streamer trying to attract viewers (and increase ad revenue, if they are monetized). Stalker? It's dramatic, and full of wolves. Which freaks some people out, or elicits comments from viewers of "Oh, wolf struggle/death simulator, with a ton of loot...", while Interloper or custom Interloper modes ring every bell for difficulty, challenge, drama, skill magnification, ect... so yeah. It totally makes sense that you are searching and finding Interloper streams. They generate the most b views for well-known TLD players/streamers. 

But it doesn't mean that more people play Interloper than any other experience mode.

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It would be awesome if they look at the late game issue in addition to curtailing the forever Loper runs, instead of thinking "hmmm if we just stop the forever Loper runs that also fixes the late game issue too."  However I think the late game issue exists on other difficulties so hopefully good omen for both handled separately.

Though I do hope they can find a spot for the foreverlopers somehow - the ones like you puft who want it to be trying, but not crazy deadly.

I agree people want to see the streams with lots of risk.  Everyone knows the best ones are the ones where the streamer and the watchers diverge - the ones with death or near death. The people watching get excited and the streamer is skerd and sometimes bummed.  

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55 minutes ago, stay puft said:

I just type The Long Dark into you tube

Puft, I don't think she was saying you search for interloper video's she was explaining to you why you see interloper video's when you look up TLD on youtube

I'm pretty sure is what she meant.. (don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth)

Edited by StoneyWolf
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34 minutes ago, StoneyWolf said:

Puft, I don't think she was saying you search for interloper video's she was explaining to you why you see interloper video's when you look up TLD on youtube

I'm pretty sure is what she meant.. (don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth)

Yeah, pretty much. My wording was not the best, to get that across. "You" as in anyone who might be searching TLD on YT or Twitch.  Not just @stay puft.

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When I see pancakes and marshmallows come together I can't think of a better conclusion to anything.

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10 hours ago, stay puft said:

[...]as far as I know Hinterland does want to stop forever interloper runs.[...]

What makes you think that ?
The game is providing a way to find non-renewable items, so for me it's a clear clue that long-lasting runs are "allowed".

 

9 hours ago, dbmurph22 said:

However I think the late game issue exists on other difficulties[...]

What issue ?

I've tried to search in the topic, sorry if it was stated and I missed it.

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6 minutes ago, stay puft said:

I never said long runs aren't allowed...so why did you write "allowed" as if your quoting me?

I translated "does want to stop" into "not allowed", marks were put to show the approximate meaning

Quote

Based off posts on this site by Hinterland it seems that they did not intend on people living forever or even for 1000s of days on interloper, go back and read more posts on this thread if you want more info

There's nothing in this thread that cites directly Hinterland.
Please don't ask me to prove something you stated. If you can't provide a source I guess it's just a sentiment. For now I'll stand with facts : there's non-renewable items that could lead to a slow death when completely scavenge from the maps, yet the game (so, Hinterland team) put a system in place to give some back to the player.

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4 hours ago, LkP said:

I translated "does want to stop" into "not allowed", marks were put to show the approximate meaning

There's nothing in this thread that cites directly Hinterland.
Please don't ask me to prove something you stated. If you can't provide a source I guess it's just a sentiment. For now I'll stand with facts : there's non-renewable items that could lead to a slow death when completely scavenge from the maps, yet the game (so, Hinterland team) put a system in place to give some back to the player.

In the Milton Mailbag #39 I cited earlier it was stated by Raphael: "My feeling is that if some players are surviving for very long on Interloper, there is something in the XP Mode that isn't quite working. It requires us spending more time analyzing how people are playing it, how some of them are managing to survive for so long, and then tweaking the tuning or revising the approach to make it more challenging. "

I think there's other material out there, but there is that.

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6 hours ago, LkP said:

What makes you think that ?
The game is providing a way to find non-renewable items, so for me it's a clear clue that long-lasting runs are "allowed".

 

What issue ?

I've tried to search in the topic, sorry if it was stated and I missed it.

Thanks for taking the time to search for it.

I mean that it's been expressed that after you get sort of set in the game at 50+ days there are not many goals.  Of course the sandbox has no goals to start with other than surviving, but after a certain point it feels like sort of the built in A to B goals built around the only goal of survival is sort of gone.  The experience bars have progressed, you've explored most locations and a sense of being bored sets in.  Of course some like it and daily business of routine and gathering, but many feel adrift as it's been expressed.

Personally I don't want a bunch of artificial stuff to pop up later as I want the core experience of survival to remain intact - and being a bit bored is a part of that.  But I think there could be some ideas to spice it up without making the experience of the survival sandbox totally different.

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I think harder mode than Interloper isnt needed, just make Interloper harder. but they really should make option "community", where you can select all popular custom mods, like DMC, or Against all odds (they cannot be optimised nor changed, unless in custom mode).

 

I hope they add new items, to get more rich gameplay. I am tired of moaners here, that no new items are needed or they are redundant. Lol.

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4 hours ago, LkP said:

For now I'll stand with facts : there's non-renewable items that could lead to a slow death when completely scavenge from the maps, yet the game (so, Hinterland team) put a system in place to give some back to the player.

Yep, pretty much.

We're still missing antibiotics though. Reishi or usable antibiotics need to be a thing in beachcombing for the game to be truly virtually endless. With cooking 5 as long as you don't eat raw meat you can already live forever, I agree that the game design doesn't actively try to end long runs, it's the player taking chances that usually does it. 

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45 minutes ago, dbmurph22 said:

In the Milton Mailbag #39

ah ok, thanks ! My bad not to have noticed it.

40 minutes ago, dbmurph22 said:

Personally I don't want a bunch of artificial stuff to pop up later as I want the core experience of survival to remain intact - and being a bit bored is a part of that.  But I think there could be some ideas to spice it up without making the experience of the survival sandbox totally different.

Yep, and the core of a sandbox is for people to create their own fun, I think.

 

8 minutes ago, Dan_ said:

We're still missing antibiotics though. Reishi or usable antibiotics need to be a thing in beachcombing for the game to be truly virtually endless. With cooking 5 as long as you don't eat raw meat you can already live forever, I agree that the game design doesn't actively try to end long runs, it's the player taking chances that usually does it. 

That's how all my games end... I just try something, most of the time because the survival aspect has been taken care of after one month.

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6 hours ago, LkP said:

There's nothing in this thread that cites directly Hinterland.
Please don't ask me to prove something you stated. If you can't provide a source I guess it's just a sentiment. For now I'll stand with facts : there's non-renewable items that could lead to a slow death when completely scavenge from the maps, yet the game (so, Hinterland team) put a system in place to give some back to the player

If you read more of his posts you see why he said that.

@stay puft never said he's right or anyone is wrong just said what he thinks it could be and everyone else should do the same.

Don't say people are wrong just say what you think it could be.

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14 hours ago, dbmurph22 said:

When I see pancakes and marshmallows come together I can't think of a better conclusion to anything

Pancakes are awesome! Marshmallows suck 😛

 

 

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I personally forbid anyone critizing marshmallows. There are rules in this world.

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42 minutes ago, stay puft said:

lol

Everyone loves marshmallows!!...   Except for maybe a particular Wolf who may or may not be, stoned.. :)

 

 

1 hour ago, jeffpeng said:

I personally forbid anyone critizing marshmallows. There are rules in this world.

My profile picture has a wolf and there's stone in my name, and I also think marshmallows aren't the greatest. We must be a specific minority demographic! I request special protections for us!

They're not great on their own and/or in large amounts at least. They're too rich. They can compliment other flavors well, however. 

Yeah this topic has definitely derailed, oops.

Edited by MarrowStone
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Do I like marshmallow? I like real marshmallows. The gelatin weirdness that passes for marshmallow today not so much,

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:39 AM, dbmurph22 said:

the late game issue

I know this is slightly tangential, but when I see it I can't help but discuss it a little bit.  However, since I've mentioned this before, back in Mailbag Dispatch #36... I'll just echo it here:

Quote

I personally don't think there is a late game problem.  I do think there might some issues with late game "expectations."  Which to me is not the same thing.  I'm sure there are plenty of people who will disagree with me (and that's fine) but I just ask those folks hear me out:

I think anyone that has spent long periods of time in isolation/lone subsistence will attest that coping with the mundanities of survival can be your biggest challenge.  There is no "happily ever after" or "congratulations you win!" in survival mode and I would suggest there shouldn't be... After all death is the eventuality, no mater what.  Be it because we've given up, or due to tragic circumstances (most often brought on by our own bad decisions).  I really like the idea that once we get proficient with our survival tasks, that it's really up to us to find creative ways to just live in Great Bear on our own terms, and for how long.  If one really feels the need to face the near death struggle again, we can always start a new run... or walk away from our "comfy" set up and go on a death march to some other desolate zone and work on getting set up again (only this time without the luxury of finding all those lootables - since we already took them all). :D 

Now to reflect on those other points of view... for those who do feel, "I'm good at survival, but there is nothing left I can think of to do..."  Perhaps one solution for the "maybe column" might be to have the Old Bear make an appearance in survival mode (after 500 days or 1000 days or whatever) and be that "Tireless Menace," constantly hunting us down... where our only viable defense is to evade, to run for our lives.  Maybe just like in The Hunted challenge, occasionally cross our path to harass and try to eat our poor survivor...  I don't know, it's just a thought.  Like I said before, I really don't see any "late game problem," but I guess I just have a very different way of looking at the whole picture of Survival Mode.

This game is a lot of things to a lot of people and I respect that, this is just a little bit of my point of view. :) 

Edited by ManicManiac

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