Hitting rabbits with stones

[Dr. S.]

Is it just me, or has it gotten much harder to hit rabbits with stones since the latest update(s)?

I just spent ten minutes trying to hit a rabbit with a stone in HRV, missing nine or ten times in a row. In fact I think I actually did hit it once (stone bounced close to rabbit and stopped, rabbit ran off). It seems to me like the hit radius is much smaller than before (when it was almost ridiculously easy to hit a rabbit), so small that I'm not sure it isn't bugged.

[Serenity]

Steadfast Ranger made rabbit hitboxes far, far too large. Maybe they overcompensated when fixing that

[peteloud]

I am having the same problem with the bow and arrows.   In the past I rarely missed rabbits, now I rarely hit the rabbit.  Hitting deer with an arrow seems to be harder too.

 

I am also having a problem with finding things in the dark.  When I am in a completely dark environment I often have difficulty finding the bed or my bedroll.  It seems that the 'hit-box' for those has been greatly reduced.  As I scan around in the dark I might see the bed or bedroll flash up momentarily but trying to find it and clicking on it to use it is often very difficult.

 

[ManicManiac]

@Dr. S.
I find since they changed some of the mechanics a few updates back, it became way too easy.  I've had throws that absolutely should have been misses (as they didn't even appear to make any contact with the rabbit), only to have the rabbit get seeming stunned with fright instead.  I'd personally be really grateful to Hinterland if they did go ahead and tone it down a little bit.   I think it should require at least as little bit of player skill to bag a rabbit again. 

I had a thread about that very topic: here

Edited November 3, 2019 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

As far as issues with finding things in the dark... I would generally recommend:

[Dr. S.]

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

I find since they changed some of the mechanics a few updates back, it became way too easy.  I've had throws that absolutely should have been misses (as they didn't even appear to make any contact with the rabbit), only to have the rabbit get seeming stunned with fright instead.  I'd personally be really grateful to Hinterland if they did go ahead and tone it down a little bit.   I think it should require at least as little bit of player skill to bag a rabbit again. 

I agree it was too easy, I'm just surprised at how much it's changed. I've literally gone from over 90% hit rate to less than 10% hit rate.

[ManicManiac]

I too was pleasantly surprised that I missed a rabbit yesterday
It does feel like a drastic change, I do see what you mean.
For me though, it's a welcome change and I love it!

I guess, in general I'm very rarely in favor of things that make life easier for our survivor.  

Edited November 3, 2019 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

I'm fed up with the oscillation of it all.  People were appreciative when they made stoning rabbits easier.  It helped beginners get into the game more easily... but then you get the "it's way too easy" crowd that can't resist exploiting such a thing and so now we're back to where getting started into TLD is a real frustrating chore.  IMO, there should be a variable "aim assist" in the game (at least in the custom settings or accessibility options) so that people can alter this difficulty to suit themselves.  People of differing abilities should be able to enjoy the games they buy... not have their enjoyment continually dictated to them by the "git gud" crowd.

Lighting contrast and brightness should also be individually adjustable settings.  People should also be able to play a game they buy, particularly a single-player game they buy, without undue eye strain.

Edited November 4, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[Deseoso]

I completely agree with UpUpAway95. This game is a single player game. I can fully understand when developers are rigid in their design of a multiplayer game because everyone should have to play the same to keep it fair. This being a single player game there should be far more customization with regards to difficulty. I fully respect a person's right to enjoy a really tough survival game. What those people have to realize though is that different people have different motivations for playing. I consider myself a casual player. I am quite happy to play the game on Voyager difficulty which is reasonably easy. I find it annoying though that many of the die hard survivalists out there love to jump down the throat of anyone who requests changes that make things easier.

I think that killing rabbits should be very easy when playing Pilgrim and increase in difficulty with each higher difficulty setting. I would also love to see a new difficulty setting called CUSTOM. With the difficulty setting of CUSTOM you should be able to change many of the game's aspects to decide what you want to be a challenge or not.

[ManicManiac]

15 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I'm fed up with the oscillation of it all.

Well it's a game that is still growing and changing... folks need to be willing to embrace that.  If it frustrates a person to such a degree, they are free to play something else they like better.  I never understood why people continue to do things that they know frustrate them. 

15 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

People were appreciative when they made stoning rabbits easier.

Some people where, sure.  However there were also some people who though it felt really cheap.  I think a game like this is supposed to be challenging... if things are scaled down so it's easy for literally everyone, then in what would it still be challenging?  (my point is if we removed all the challenge from the game then it just becomes a walking simulator... and I don't think that's what this game is)

15 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

not have their enjoyment continually dictated to them by the "git gud" crowd.

I don't think anybody is dictating anything to you... it seems weird that you take it that way.  All I see is a person who gets very aggressive when people dare to not agree with them.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean everyone is going to rally around it.  Just like it's your right to express your opinion, it's also the right of others to express theirs.

To be clear... I'm all for accessibility options, I have no issue with things I can opt out of... but I'm not in favor of things that change what I feel are the fundamental core, feel, and essence of the game.  

-----

2 hours ago, Deseoso said:

This being a single player game there should be far more customization with regards to difficulty.

I'll echo what I mentioned in another post:  I find it funny that this game is already more customizable and has more ways to vary the experience than a vast majority of other games on the market... but we still have folks all the time wanting more and more because the game isn't tailored perfectly to their personal tastes.  It goes back to what I talked about in the past.  I think part of the problem these days is that we are spoiled, nothing is ever enough, and every time we're given something... folks just seem to demand more instead of trying to appreciate what they have.

2 hours ago, Deseoso said:

What those people have to realize though is that different people have different motivations for playing.

Which is why there is Story Mode (with three distinct difficulty levels), Survival Sandbox (with three distinct difficulty levels, and a CUSTOM mode where you get to tailor your experience and difficulty yourself).  In short that's 6 different flavors between Story and Survival... Plus with all the possible settings in CUSTOM, there are thousands of different combinations (likely much more but I don't know all the variables to calculate all the possible combinations for this one post) to add to the total number of variable experiences you can have with the game.  That being said, I don't understand the idea that it's not customizable enough, when it's far and away more customizable than most games on the market (yes I know I said that about your last point but it's relevant here too)

2 hours ago, Deseoso said:

I think that killing rabbits should be very easy

And I respectfully disagree.  I don't think hitting a rabbit with a stone should be easy...  The reason I feel that way is because there is an easy way to get rabbits, you use snares.

2 hours ago, Deseoso said:

I would also love to see a new difficulty setting called CUSTOM.

umm... Deseoso... but that's literally in the game as you described it.  

 

At this point folks, I've invested all the time I'm going to on this conversation for now.  If you'd like to message me directly and talk about any particular point, please feel free.  I would just rather not pollute the thread with an argument... you said your peace, and now I've said mine.

Edited November 5, 2019 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

38 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Well it's a game that is still growing and changing... folks need to be willing to embrace that.  If it frustrates a person to such a degree, they are free to play something else they like better.  I never understood why people continue to do things that they know frustrate them. 

Some people where, sure.  However there were also some people who though it felt really cheap.  I think a game like this is supposed to be challenging... if things are scaled down so it's easy for literally everyone, then in what would it still be challenging?  (my point is if we removed all the challenge from the game then it just becomes a walking simulator... and I don't think that's what this game is)

I don't think anybody is dictating anything to you... it seems weird that you take it that way.  All I see is a person who gets very aggressive when people dare to not agree with them.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean everyone is going to rally around it.  Just like it's your right to express your opinion, it's also the right of others to express theirs.

To be clear... I'm all for accessibility options, I have no issue with things I can opt out of... but I'm not in favor of things that change what I feel is the fundamental core, feel, and essence of the game.  

-----

I'll echo what I mentioned in another post:  I find it funny that this game is already more customizable and has more ways to vary the experience than a vast majority of other games on the market... but we still have folks all the time wanting more and more because the game isn't tailored perfectly to their personal tastes.  It goes back to what I talked about in the past.  I think part of the problem these days is that we are spoiled, nothing is ever enough, and every time we're given something... folks just seem to demand more instead of trying to appreciate what they have.  Having such variable adjustments doesn't make the game any easier for you if you don't want it to be.  I don't know what satisfaction you get out of making the game so difficult for everyone else but you.

Which is why there is Story Mode (with three distinct difficulty levels), Survival Sandbox (with three distinct difficulty levels, and a CUSTOM mode where you get to tailor your experience and difficulty yourself).  In short that's 6 different flavors between Story and Survival... Plus with all the possible settings in CUSTOM, there are thousands of different combinations (likely much more but I don't know all the variables to calculate all the possible combinations for this one post) to add to the total number of variable experiences you can have with the game.  That being said, I don't understand the idea that it's not customizable enough, when it's far and away more customizable than most games on the market (yes I know I said that about your last point but it's relevant here too)

And I respectfully disagree.  I don't think hitting a rabbit with a stone should be easy...  The reason I feel that way is because there is an easy way to get rabbits, you use snares.

umm... Deseoso... but that's literally in the game as you described it.  

 

At this point folks, I've invested all the time I'm going to on this conversation for now.  If you'd like to message me directly and talk about any particular point, please feel free.  I would just rather not pollute the thread with an argument... you said your peace, and now I've said mine.

As you keep telling people... this is a forum where people are free to express their opinions and make suggestions for improvements to the game.  As you say all the time, I'm just stating my opinion.  I am frustrated with the oscillation... the changing back and forth from harder to easier to harder.  Make a variable aim assist and be done with.  Then you can set yours as hard as you like and I can set mine wherever I like... and you won't even have to know whether that's harder than yours or easier... and the people I'm trying to convince to become interested in this game can set it wherever they like as well... so maybe they don't quit and throw their controllers at my TV the moment the tutorial in Wintermute tells them that Will needs to stone a bunny.  Having such variable adjustments doesn't make the game any easier for you unless you want to use such a setting.  People who having difficulties should be allowed to enjoy their games as well without continually being blocked by people who make issues of such things when it need not affect them.

Edited November 5, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[ManicManiac]

20 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I'm just stating my opinion.

Right, I'm not hindering you from doing that.  I just don't agree with you all the time, and that's okay... we don't have to agree.  I don't mean you any hard feelings.

Like I said, I have no issue what so ever with accessibility options (as people can then opt in or opt out - I'm all in favor of that).  Since it's single player I've always been a big proponent of, "Let people play however they want to."  I've been very vocal about that too.

I do tend to dig in when it seems like folks are trying to push for Hinterland to change my experience, because they are unhappy with theirs.  That's where I take issue.  Does that make sense?

Edited November 5, 2019 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

10 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Right, I'm not hindering you from doing that.  I just don't agree with you all the time, and that's okay... we don't have to agree.  I don't mean you any hard feelings.

Like I said, I have no issue what so ever with accessibility options (as people can then opt in or opt out - I'm all in favor of that).  Since it's single player I've always been a big proponent of, "Let people play however they want to."  I've been very vocal about that too.

I do tend to dig in when it seems like folks are trying to push for Hinterland to change my experience, because they are unhappy with theirs... that's were I draw my line.  Does that make sense?

 

Then change your tone and spare me all the patronizing lectures about playing something else, etc.... because you habitually do that every single time I bring up any "accessibility or custom option."

[Guest kristaok]

I agree with @UpUpAway95

There's definitely been some changes especially here lately that have really bothered me to be quite honest...  

Edited November 5, 2019 by kristaok

[ManicManiac]

32 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Then change your tone and spare me all the patronizing lectures about playing something else, etc.... because you habitually do that every single time I bring up any "accessibility or custom option."

Well, it's difficult to derive tone from text... I have no control over what "voice" you read my text in.  I'm not patronizing you... I'm just reminding you of your options.  As most of your posts here seem to have a pretty negative bias.  It's always bewildering to me to see folks constantly subjecting themselves to something they know upsets them.  It just seems odd to me.

Again though... if you want to have this sort of conversation, I urge you to message me directly.  There's no need to pollute the thread with this kind of talk... this is supposed to be a conversation about hitting bunnies with rocks.

Edited November 5, 2019 by ManicManiac
corrected a typrographical error

[UpUpAway95]

4 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Well, it's difficult to derive tone from text... I have no control over what "voice" you read my text in.  I'm not patronizing you... I'm just reminding you of your options.  As most of your posts here seem to have a pretty negative bias.  It's always bewildering to me to see folks constantly subjecting themselves to something they know upsets them.  It just seems odd to me.

Again though... if you want to have this sort of conversation, I urge your to message me directly.  There's no need to pollute the thread with this kind of talk... this is supposed to be a conversation about hitting bunnies with rocks.

... and again... I am suggesting a variable "aim assist" that can be set by the player when they start the game to their own liking.  Other games, some dating back many more years than this one, have this sort of thing, so I don't see any reason why TLD can't.  Where you set yours then is your own business.   It doesn't affect the difficulty of YOUR game unless you want it to. 

Alternatively, as Deseoso suggested, the hitbox size could change automatically with the difficulty setting... larger in Pilgrim and smaller in Interloper.  I think this would also be a perfectly satisfactory solution.

[ManicManiac]

@UpUpAway95
(This seems to be going in circles now, so as of this post you and I are done with this particular conversation here)
...and again... I don't have any issue with accessibility options that folks can opt in or out of, but I do take issue with things that will change my experience to suit someone else's playstyle, skill levels, or personal difficulties.  So, we're done now right?

As to Deseoso's suggestion, I don't agree with that because it again changes a the game for everyone... Also, I will point out again that there is already an option to get easily get rabbits, and that's by using snares (so easy in fact that it's completely passive).

*If you would still like to continue this line of conversation, please message me directly.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

10 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

@UpUpAway95
(This seems to be going in circles now, so as of this post you and I are done with this particular conversation here)
...and again... I don't have any issue with accessibility options that folks can opt in or out of, but I do take issue with things that will change my experience to suit someone else's playstyle, skill levels, or personal difficulties.  So, we're done now right?

As to Deseoso's suggestion, I don't agree with that because it again changes a the game for everyone... Also, I will point out again that there is already an option to get easily get rabbits, and that's by using snares (so easy in fact that it's completely passive).

*If you would still like to continue this line of conversation, please message me directly.  

Please note that the option to restrict your comments about such things as whether or not people should be playing a different game to private messages applies to you as well.  I'd appreciate your adhering to your own advice in future and restrict your comments to the actual suggestions... leaving your theories about how different are motivated to play their games out of it.

I would also like to point out that you don't have access to a snare when doing the Wintermute tutorial that asks the player to stone a rabbit on their way to Milton.

Back on topic, again and addressing the issue (not directed towards you specifically).  There are several varieties of aim assist used in different games.  This is not an uncommon feature either as an adjustable option or as something directly tied to difficulty level.  My preference for TLD would be an adjustable option since "difficulty level" in TLD is something more ambiguous than in other games.  The difference between Stalker and Interloper is not that one is universally harder than the other, but that each is harder than the other in a different way.  That's why I think it should actually be a part of the Custom menu and not necessarily set out in the accessibility menu (although I'd be perfectly happy with it in the accessibility menu because I'm flexible).  My point always was that the oscillation between making aiming harder and then easier and then harder is what needs to end.  I've only been playing this game for less than year, and I've seen at least 3 changes to the aiming mechanic over that time.  It's frustrating to learn one way and then 2 months later have to forget everything learned to adjust to another new method of aiming... not to mention that making it universally "hard" gets really, really discouraging to less able players.  Also, there are a multitude of reasons why some players are less able to aim as accurately in games than others - vision issues, motor issues, arthritis, and even just whether they play on a console or a PC or with a controller or a keyboard and mouse.  At the bottom line, it seems impossible to "balance' aiming to suit everyone with just one setting... so I'm suggesting they give us a variable option that we can set ourselves to our own liking.

Edited November 5, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[Deseoso]

@ManicManiac If you are going to quote someone then quote their entire sentence rather than just taking a piece of it out of context so that it fits the reply you want to give. You quoted me earlier as having written, " I think that killing rabbits should be very easy" and then went on to give a lengthy explanation of why you disagree. What I actually wrote was, " I think that killing rabbits should be very easy when playing Pilgrim and increase in difficulty with each higher difficulty setting."

If you are going to twist what people say to fit your own agenda then maybe you should go into politics.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Deseoso

[Lohaan]

This is an issue that has now been fixed it seems. Rabbits were not easy to hit..but suddenly the radius changed to where you pretty much just had to drop a stone in the general vicinity of a rabbit to hit it (think this was after Steadfast Ranger update). Seems they've addressed this again again to force more accuracy from players. Even so...rocks do bounce off rabbits on occasion...

Edited November 5, 2019 by Lohaan

[ManicManiac]

@Deseoso
Look, in my opinion the difficulty mode isn't relevant to the mechanic.  You disagree and that's fine.  However I was done with this conversation long ago... so, you and I are now done with this particular conversation.

If you absolutely feel the need to continue... please message me directly.

There is no need to pollute the thread with the accusations you're tossing at me.  I haven't twisted anything.  I have only given my opinions, thoughts, and ideas about what you have written.

fo·rum
/ˈfôrəm/
noun:
1. a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

You don't have to like that I don't always agree with you, but there is no reason to get hostile and accusatory, especially when you have no idea of my thoughts or intentions.  I have every bit as much right to express my opinions here as you do.   

Edited November 5, 2019 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

10 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I'd appreciate your adhering to your own advice

I do adhere to my own advice, there is no hypocrisy here.  If you had asked me to message you personally to continue the discussion I would have.  However, I asked you three times, and you still do not...  Instead you seem to want to make a public spectacle.

Also, you don't get to tell people how and when they may comment.  You don't have that right.  You don't get to decide what other people think is relevant to the conversation either.

... so let's be done now.   

Edited November 5, 2019 by ManicManiac

[ThePancakeLady]

On 11/4/2019 at 5:30 PM, Deseoso said:

I would also love to see a new difficulty setting called CUSTOM. With the difficulty setting of CUSTOM you should be able to change many of the game's aspects to decide what you want to be a challenge or not.

You do know we already have "CUSTOM", right?

Custom Settings Toolbox... lets you adjust 57 different settings, to customized your game to fit what you want to experience, though it does not let us change baked-in-under-the-hood settings. Some really good player-made challenges have been created using Custom Settings, with the share codes (that can be plugged in using the Toolbox) to let anyone try the game on the same settings, exactly. A few threads with lists of the player-made challenges and their share codes here on the online forums, as well as on the Steam forums.Want colder weather, but more loot, with animals spawning less frequently over time, wolves being passive instead of aggressive... you can do that. Want vanilla Interloper but, with a rifle available? You can do that too. Want Pilgrim everything except weather set to Interloper levels? You can do that. Not a feature I use often, but there are times that I do find it fun to set things somewhat randomly, just to see what happens.

And the game really does not have "difficulty" settings. They are called "Experience Modes", because Hinterland is trying to create an experience for us, not a linear difficulty progression lie most typical aRPGs/RPGs. Which comes back around to the Custom Settings Toolbox... which lets you craft your own experience.

And yes, I snipped the quote, so my response would clearly be shown to be a direct response to that singular point.  

[UpUpAway95]

5 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

I do adhere to my own advice, there is no hypocrisy here.  If you had asked me to message you personally to continue the discussion I would have.  However, I asked you three times, and you still do not...  Instead you seem to want to make a public spectacle.

Also, you don't get to tell people how and when they may comment.  You don't have that right.  You don't get to decide what other people think is relevant to the conversation either.

... so let's be done now.   

Telling people they should play another game or pointing out that the game is still in development, etc. never was on topic... I originally only posted my suggestion for resolving this issue and, from you, I got this lecture about how the game was in development and how I should play another game, etc. etc.  You always had the option to stay on topic in this thread and, if you felt compelled, to private message me with your "off topic" suggestions about how I should play another game, etc.  You're the one who took this off topic discussion publicly onto this thread in the first place... and you've continued to respond on this thread, so I am not the one who is going to suddenly take this to a private message... that's up to you. 

I have asked "please" several times in the past to spare me your lectures, yet you persist.  I am not telling you how to comment on the topic, but don't expect me to suddenly appreciate your lecturing me and telling me that this game may not be for me or that you assume I just want to make life easy for the survivor, or now that I have no understanding that this game is still in development, etc.  So, I will ask you again PLEASE spare me your patronizing lectures and respond on topic... and we'll get along much better in the future.

Edited November 6, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[ThePancakeLady]

Jeez, both of you, please_just_stop. Half this thread is now a back and forth bickering contest.