Soda Dehydration

[ark1of712]

It makes sense plus it's a valuable life lesson for all the little childrens. Or at least make it so that it doesn't hydrate you?

My mommy and my SAS survival guide say not to drink soda when you're thirsty because it actually dehydrates you. Same as coffee. Just wondering if there were any thoughts, plans about it.

Thank you for the great game, love the update!

[Vagos]

true, sodas dehydrate in real life.

The only way to balance this is to add plenty of calories and act as a liquid food?

[Aedaric]

100% agree. The counter if you're worried about removing the hydrating liquid is to add another hydrating liquid to the item pool. There are tons of sports drinks that can provide low amounts of calories and high hydration.

[StringEpsilon]

Whether or not soda (or coffee, for that matter) actually dehydrates you, depends on the kind of dehydration. As far as the trustworthy (sourced) pages I found on that topic, soda, tea, and coffee are slightly less efficient, but they don't have an outright negative effect on your water balance - at least if you don't suffer from Hypernatremia already.

On all sites who proclaim that soda dehydrates you, I could not find a trustworthy source. I can also say that I'm still alive, even though I almost exclusively drink coffee and (sweetened) tea (and soda for lunch).

Edit: So, I would debuff soda. Instead of hydrating you like 250ml of water would, turn it down to 200ml or 175ml.

[Aedaric]

I don't know the effects of severe dehydration but I know how my body feels when I get dehydrated. I suffer from headaches daily as well as migraines and have been to seeing a neurologist for the past year and a half. That said, over the past year, I have drank and quit drinking "Monster Lo-Carb" energy drinks, while not entirely the same thing I know, throughout periods of time to see how they affect my body, along with the amounts of water I drink.

Typically throughout the day I drink an average of 120 fl oz of water, along with a single can of Monster energy drinks, and then water other liquid I receive from other sources of food and or milk throughout the day. On one of my doctor directed excursions, because we wanted to see if the energy drinks were by chance a catalyst for my migraines, we decreased my water intake to an average of 40 fl oz a day--by the end of that week I felt ill. My energy level every day was drained and I felt exhausted and simply wrong. I'm not a health buff by any means, so I don't really have any conclusive evidence on the factors that caused my symptoms. After all, anything can cause me to feel almost flu-like by the end of a week of not drinking water when you drink water habitually.

[Cosmoline]

I think it's more appropriate to say that soda, coffee and the like aren't advised for people who are suffering from heat stroke, severe dehydration and the like. As I understand it, it's incorrect to say that soda actually reduces the amount of water in your body. Otherwise we'd all be dead by now.

It reminds me of the survival trope that you can't hydrate with snow. Of course you CAN--it's frozen water. It just takes some caloric energy to melt it and can freeze your skin, so you only do it when you're running hot. For example if I'm on a fatbike ride at 20 f. and sweating, sucking on a piece of compacted fresh snow is a pleasant way to drink and cool off. But in conditions like the ones we have now in Anchorage, NO WAY.

[ark1of712]

@String Epsilon and Cosmoline

I know it's hard to believe, but it actually does directly reduce the amount of water in your body because of the amount of water it takes your body to process artificial sugars. That's why things with natural, easy to break down sugars like orange juice are still hydrating.

You'll see a lot of things online that say this has been debunked because you retain some of the water. This is true. You actually retain all the water. You just use it all up, and then some, breaking down all the sugar you consumed.

[Cosmoline]

If that were true, then your average gamer drinking nothing but soda for three or four days would be seriously ill or dead. Do you have any medical source for this claim? I'm particularly skeptical about the theory that it takes energy to "process artificial sugars."

[StringEpsilon]

I know it's hard to believe, but it actually does directly reduce the amount of water in your body because of the amount of water it takes your body to process artificial sugars. That's why things with natural, easy to break down sugars like orange juice are still hydrating.

I'll believe you, if you can give me a study supporting your hypothesis.

The whole artificial vs. natural sugars: Fructose is easier to digest, true. But we break down more complicated sugars into fructose. If you eat a slice of bread, you will break down the stark and other carbohydrates into glucose (which is in soda) and then into fructose. All of that breakdown happens via enzymes and bacteria.

The reason sugary water is not as good for refreshing you, is because it's partially saturated, until the sugar is extracted. Think about it this way: If soda would dehydrate you, because of complex sugars, the effect of a load of bread would be devastating. We're built to deal with sugar.

Edit: One more note just in case: Synthetic sugars are identical to their natural counterparts. Glucose in cola is exactly the same as the glucose your body creates while digesting bread.

[ark1of712]

The average gamer doesn't die drinking soda for 3-4 days because it's a slower dehydration than not drinking any water at all, plus they get moisture from food. Although gamers dying after a 1-4 day binge actually happens about once or twice a year, you've probably seen one or two coming out of Thailand since Diablo 3 came out.

I am trying to find an academic source, but I am inclined to believe John 'Lofty' Wiseman, as he literally used to be responsible for teaching the SAS survival skills. Nevertheless, as I too am a sceptic by nature, I shall keep trying to find something reputable.

And yes, the glucose in Cola is the same as all glucose, but that's the simple sugars. Complex sugars are different, ie. corn syrup is much harder for the body to break down than fruit. That's while you'll notice people who eat lots of corn syrup tend to die faster than those who eat lots of fruit. Or do I need to cite a study for that as well

[Aedaric]

Ahhh, survival...SERE...ahhh..fond memories that...

Wait...err...TLD IRL...ermmm.

[ark1of712]

Haha, you're absolutely right. This will inevitably turn into one of those impossible debates.

It was just my feedback, which I hope the developers consider. Either way I love the game and will continue to.

Cheers!

[Cosmoline]

I think this is one of those "people only use X% of their brain potential" things. A statement that is so bizarre everyone assumes it must be true even if it's patently absurd.

[Cosmoline]

I think this is one of those "people only use X% of their brain potential" things. A statement that is so bizarre everyone assumes it must be true even if it's patently absurd.

[ark1of712]

You could easily be right, but again, I don't think a survival instructor responsible for training elite special forces would pass it on because X% of people told him so, I think it's because he has the experience and knowledge to back it up.

However, again, you may be right. I couldn't find very much that was credible for either side online. So I'm going to keep my stance that it shouldn't hydrate you, even though it may not be de-hydrating per say, and let the developer's assess my feedback

Thanks for your interest folks!

[Loppysaurusrex]

SOLUTION: Make soda dehydrate but add things like fruit juices, sports drinks that give you hydration buffs, vitamin water etc.

[ark1of712]

I agree. Or like I said to appease those who aren't in favour of the dehydration hypothesis, simply not make it hydrating.

[Vagos]

Its simple really,

our body will try to remove the sugars from the soda. In this effort, the water intake by drinking soda is less that the water outtake to remove the sugars.

It is said as a rule of thump that to totally remove the sugars from a normal can of coke, requires 25 cups of water (long term off course)

Same applies for coffee, caffeine needs to be removed from the body, so we are trying to "wash" it out. So finally the hydro balance is negative.

Tea? The same.

Now for energy drinks, they off course hydrate the body instantly due to the use of electrolytes, but if you are drink them carelessly they will have opposite effects. No1 effect is to get plenty of non wanted calories.

Normal Hydration = Water. Nature never lies.

[ark1of712]

Thanks for the info Vagos, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it that way!

Though I have heard that the caffeine content in some green teas is low enough that it is still hydrating. Depends on the tea of course. Again, this is from my SAS survival book. It's my bible.

[Subversion]

This is a myth. While soda may not be as hydrating as straight water, it is still hydrating. I've certainly never heard of anyone dying due to dehydration caused by drinking soda only. You know that it would have happened if it could have, because there are people who drink nothing but soda for extended periods of time. Find me a case of this happening and I'll believe it. Until then, they really shouldn't add in science which is at best, in dispute, into the game. Nutrition science has to be one of the least reliable fields, what with the constant changes to what the 'experts' say is good or bad for you. The egg is a great example of this.

[Vagos]

You forget the water intake from various other food sources.

In any case drinking sodas only, is such an unhealthy way of living that there is no point defending soft drinks in general.

Personally I don't even bring them home, only on special occasions.

Drinking sodas only while you are on survival situation (scarce or no food available)is almost the same as to drink sea water. Both dehydrate but on different levels.

[StringEpsilon]

@Vagos: I can not find any reliable source on your claims. Digesting any food, including the sugar in soda, involves water being used. Most of that water is absorbed again, unless you have diarrhea.

Caffeine is an issue, as it makes you go pee faster and because if can be slightly diuretic - but both effects are small enough to leave you with a net positive on water intake, especially if you are used to caffeine.

Sources:

Caffeine: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19774754

Digestion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestion.

I searched everywhere to find any link between ('artificial') sugars and water, but all I could find is just websites making claims like yours, without any explanation on why that water-loss happens.

I don't want to be the bad, grim wise guy, but unless you help me to understand your claims, I have to disappoint you. If we want a new mechanic because it adds some realism, we should be sure it's realistic. That's all I'm here fore.

[Migga]

I would say this is definitly a myth as well. I couldn't find any studies or any scientific proof for this theory, and I even searched all medical journals and other journals my university has access to. (searched for articles, including dehydration, coke, water, soda, limonde (since i'm german) and so on and no results)

We definitly don't need to argue about the fact that the excessiv consumtion of soda is bad, but dehydration is not one of them.

[ark1of712]

I completely understand your objections, so I'll leave it to the developers to do what they believe is best from the evidence or lack thereof that they find suitable. It probably varies widely from beverage to beverage.

[Vagos]

The keyword is osmosis. Anything foreign to the human body needs to get out. The only way to get it out is by the use of water through urination or sweat.

Blood needs to stay alcaline but sugar is toxic.

Anydody wandered why you are thirsty if you finish your sea swim? Your body identifies the salt in the water and tries to make it alkaline. So it discards water through our largest organ, the skin.