Deseoso

Expanded Sleeping Options

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There is one thing I think could really be improved on in this game and that is the mechanics of sleeping. At the moment you can either sleep in a bed, on those strange bits of what I assume is supposed to be fur inside some caves or on your rolled up sleeping bag. If you are out in the wilderness and you don't have your sleeping bag with you and you cannot get to a bed or one of those fur patches, then you simply cannot sleep.

Here are some suggestions for alternatives I would like to see.

- There should be an option to sleep directly on the floor but you should only gain 25% of the rest that you normally would. In addition, if you sleep on snow then your temperature should lower and your clothes should get wet.

- You should be able to use animal pelts, (not rabbit obviously) as an alternative to your sleeping bag. With this option you should regain energy at 50% the rate of normal and your clothing should remain dry as pelts are waterproof. Pelts should give slight protection from cold if you are sleeping on snow. Additionally, non-cured pelts should not progress toward being cured while you sleep on them.

 - Cardboard boxes should offer a second option. Instead of just being able to turn them into tinder plugs, you should have the option to simply flatten cardboard boxes which can be laid down on the floor. With this option you should regain energy at 50% the rate of normal and they should offer some protection from the cold but when laid on snow or ice, your clothes should get a bit wet.

- Flattened cardboard boxes laid on the floor with a pelt on top should be both waterproof and provide protection from the cold and allow you to regain energy at about 75% the rate of the sleeping bag.

- I would also like to see some unique sleeping places such as on straw piles in barns. If I don't have a sleeping bag but I am in a barn full of straw, I should still be able to sleep.

Edited by Deseoso
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This has been discussed at great length over the years as well... so to try and sum up:

I tend to accept the game for what it is, and I've thought about all of those ideas at one point or another... I've come to realize that the Hinterland team made very specific design choices when they set it up the way they did.  Honestly, I think they made the right choices.  If you can just flop down and sleep any-ol'-place without cost then it would negate a lot of the strategy to the game and navigating the game world...

Besides, it's usually not long before you run into a bedroll... at which point you can pretty much sleep where you want to, but at the cost of condition to the bedroll (and I think that's important - everything should have a cost/risk to weigh in a game like this).

Overcomplicating a system with multiple factors to facilitate a simple action, I don't think that's the right answer either... the simple system we have works fine.

For your last point... we already have unique sleeping places (other than beds and vehicles I mean... though granted not many)
 

:coffee::fire:
The point is there are already numerous places to sleep and there options for sleeping in places where there is no "proper bed"... I just don't think we need to muddle up the sleeping mechanics for the sake of player convenience. 

Edited by ManicManiac
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You can also sleep in trucks or cars, front or back seat- no bedroll needed. You still need to hit the bedroll icon on the radial menu to open the Sleep/Pause menu, but you don;t actually need to have a bedoll in inventory. (meaning you can sleep in the PV big Barn, in the truck without a bedroll). I have never tried sleeping in one of the tractors, so not sure if it works in those vehicles or not.

And you can sleep in a snow shelter without a bedroll, same way as you sleep in a car without one.

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I was not aware of the ability to sleep in vehicles. That was not a feature the last time I played. That info helps with my current in game predicament.

I don't agree with the necessity of the bedroll but if the developers have made their decision then so be it.

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Oh, come on!! This is ridiculous. Fine so they don't want to add to the sleeping options but there are still flaws with the bedroll. I left the town hall to get the last survivor. I forgot to put my bedroll away and left it deployed by the fire in the town hall. I went and got the survivor and managed to sleep in the truck in the straw barn on the way back. The next day I get back to the town hall and a new bed has been placed in the town hall for the survivor I brought in. The problem is that the new bed was placed right where my bedroll was deployed and so the game simply deleted it. So now I am surrounded by survivors sleeping on beds and I have no way to sleep. I cannot sleep in a car outside because the temperature has dropped and I will die. I'm sorry but the current sleeping mechanics may be the way the developers want them but they are still flawed.

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10 minutes ago, Deseoso said:

Oh, come on!! This is ridiculous. Fine so they don't want to add to the sleeping options but there are still flaws with the bedroll. I left the town hall to get the last survivor. I forgot to put my bedroll away and left it deployed by the fire in the town hall. I went and got the survivor and managed to sleep in the truck in the straw barn on the way back. The next day I get back to the town hall and a new bed has been placed in the town hall for the survivor I brought in. The problem is that the new bed was placed right where my bedroll was deployed and so the game simply deleted it. So now I am surrounded by survivors sleeping on beds and I have no way to sleep. I cannot sleep in a car outside because the temperature has dropped and I will die. I'm sorry but the current sleeping mechanics may be the way the developers want them but they are still flawed.

You should be carrying you bedroll with you, in case you get stuck out in a blizzard. Your original post sounded like you were asking about Survival mode, not Wintermute Episode 3. Wintermute uses similar mechanics to Survival Mode, but is not exactly the same. But in both Modes (and in Challenge Modes as well), one of the first things people will tell you is to always carry your bedroll with you, as soon as you find it. Especially if you are traveling far away from where you are living.

In Wintermute you can create manual save points, and the game will create save points with checkpoints and autosave. You can choose the "Load" option on the menu to load up an earlier save in Wintermute, and go back a bit, pick up your bedroll instead of leaving it behind on the floor. (You cannot do this in Survival mode or any of the Challenge Modes, they are both permadeath.) Then go find the remaining survivors, once you have your bedroll with you.

And you are free to your opinion about the mechanics being flawed, but they have always been this way, and millions of people who own and play the game have learned to use them, and do just fine. 

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there is a bedroll against the wall in the community center, unless you got rid of it...there are also multiple houses within a 20 second run that have beds... its not the end of the world

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@Deseoso It's true. I get the arguements about mechanics and dev decisions and they're not at all invalid but... It is silly. The other needs all have trade-offs, such as physically exertion has no impact on your temperature. That's fair enough. The bed requirement is a mechanic that drives action from the player. However, that you can die, in a nice warm building, fed and watered, wearing thick layers of soft clothes, simply because you refused to lie down...?! What happens then when you fall into the long dark?! You'd collapse, get a some rest and wake up feeling crap but alive. Would you not? So it's silly and the game now has more mechanisms requiring sleep management than just condition.

In my play I manage sleep so I can carry lots, move quickly and survive struggles if things go bad. I don't think more craftable beds is necessary but I think an option to rest with penalties would add something, not remove it. It might undermine the bedroll a bit but the bedroll is still warmer and gives good sleep. So, +1 from me. 😃

Edited by Stone
Typos

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If they don't want to allow us to just drop a hide on the floor to sleep (if they think that's just too easy or convenient), I think they should create an option to craft a makeshift bedroll from cloth and from hides other than bear hide.

There is an option to craft snow shelters outdoors to sleep without a bedroll, but the cost of 4 cloth that you cannot recover for just one night's sleep (when you're on the road) is pretty prohibitive.  In addition, there is the hindrance of not being able to use a snow shelter in a building.  Yes, many building have beds, but many do not and mines don't have beds.  I think an option to craft a makeshift bedroll from, say, 10 cloth and set it with lower warmth and higher deterioration stats than a regular bedroll would be a good compromise.  A deer hide bedroll, perhaps with stats equivalent to the normal one would also be a welcome addition.  Die hard interlopers could refrain from crafting them if they want to "suffer" the challenges of not having a bedroll... although most just beeline for their known bedroll spawn anyways.

ETA:  I also think the game should never just delete a player's bedroll by replacing it with a bed for a NPC.  Instead, they should use their new "Lost and Found" boxes... moving the bedroll into one of those instead.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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32 minutes ago, Cr41g said:

there is a bedroll against the wall in the community center, unless you got rid of it...there are also multiple houses within a 20 second run that have beds... its not the end of the world

Correction, there WAS a bedroll against the wall until the game deleted it for being in the place where the game put the NPC's bed. Fine, so I can go to one of the houses to sleep but it is going to be pretty difficult to go out from now on as I no longer have a bedroll to take with me.

Edited by Deseoso

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@Deseoso you've bee. Given your own little story line right there! What desperate or devious person stole it? Or did they just chuck it on the new bed with a sheet on it? You could ask but would you really make someone else sleep of the floor like that?

😁

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2 hours ago, Deseoso said:

Correction, there WAS a bedroll against the wall until the game deleted it for being in the place where the game put the NPC's bed. Fine, so I can go to one of the houses to sleep but it is going to be pretty difficult to go out from now on as I no longer have a bedroll to take with me.

There are other bedrolls to be found in Story Mode, if you explore and look for them.

The one in the Community Center is not the only one in the entire Episode 3 game world. Also, Molly's barn, if you are close to it at any point in time, has straw all over the floor. There are 2 beds in the Straw along the wall. Hover over the straw until your reticle shows up, and look for the "Bed" tag to come up when you have found the interaction point.

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2 hours ago, Stone said:

such as physically exertion has no impact on your temperature.

And this is not entirely true. Sprinting, or carrying a lit lantern, flare or torch do raise your Feels Like temperature, but only by a few degrees.

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13 hours ago, Deseoso said:

The next day I get back to the town hall and a new bed has been placed in the town hall for the survivor I brought in. The problem is that the new bed was placed right where my bedroll was deployed and so the game simply deleted it.

I also had this problem, but then I noticed, that all items that are deleted (due to new survivors' beds) respawn at the town hall entrance, inside. I found my bedroll and several liters of water there. You can check if your bedroll is there. 

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On 10/23/2019 at 4:29 PM, Deseoso said:

- There should be an option to sleep directly on the floor but you should only gain 25% of the rest that you normally would. In addition, if you sleep on snow then your temperature should lower and your clothes should get wet.

Agreed, you shouldn't have to have a bedroll just to sleep.

On 10/23/2019 at 4:29 PM, Deseoso said:

- You should be able to use animal pelts, (not rabbit obviously) as an alternative to your sleeping bag. With this option you should regain energy at 50% the rate of normal and your clothing should remain dry as pelts are waterproof. Pelts should give slight protection from cold if you are sleeping on snow. Additionally, non-cured pelts should not progress toward being cured while you sleep on them.

 - Cardboard boxes should offer a second option. Instead of just being able to turn them into tinder plugs, you should have the option to simply flatten cardboard boxes which can be laid down on the floor. With this option you should regain energy at 50% the rate of normal and they should offer some protection from the cold but when laid on snow or ice, your clothes should get a bit wet.

- Flattened cardboard boxes laid on the floor with a pelt on top should be both waterproof and provide protection from the cold and allow you to regain energy at about 75% the rate of the sleeping bag.

- I would also like to see some unique sleeping places such as on straw piles in barns. If I don't have a sleeping bag but I am in a barn full of straw, I should still be able to sleep.

I would agree that we do need more sleep options with pelts, but only if they were turned into a bed roll, kind of like the bear bed roll. But I would fear that too many options may prove confusing? I hope that makes sense.

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One additional sleep option I would like to see is the ability to harvest fir branches to create sleeping pads inside caves or mines. These already exist in the plane crash cave and I've found at least one other one. Being able to craft those would be a nice option without going overboard.

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On 10/24/2019 at 8:06 AM, Deseoso said:

Oh, come on!! This is ridiculous. Fine so they don't want to add to the sleeping options but there are still flaws with the bedroll. I left the town hall to get the last survivor. I forgot to put my bedroll away and left it deployed by the fire in the town hall. I went and got the survivor and managed to sleep in the truck in the straw barn on the way back. The next day I get back to the town hall and a new bed has been placed in the town hall for the survivor I brought in. The problem is that the new bed was placed right where my bedroll was deployed and so the game simply deleted it. So now I am surrounded by survivors sleeping on beds and I have no way to sleep. I cannot sleep in a car outside because the temperature has dropped and I will die. I'm sorry but the current sleeping mechanics may be the way the developers want them but they are still flawed.

I also had items deployed in the town hall, and when a new survivor came in, I thought they were deleted, but in actuality they are just moved to right in front of the door.

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I think the larger problem we see these days is that people want things to be more player convenient.
Many of those same folks have a tendency to want the game to be really challenging...  However, these are two incongruous ideas.

Also I think more people should understand and accept that it's a video game and doesn't have to reflect "reality."  In fact we should be grateful that it doesn't... for example if the shooting mechanics were 100% mapped to reality... most of us would probably not be able to hit the broadside of a barn from any significant distance.  Thankfully we don't have to worry about windage, elevation, full or half value winds, bullet drop, the Coriolis Effect... I mean the list goes on and on. 

The point is, fussing about needing a bedroll to sleep on the ground seems as silly to me as fussing about Mario needing a wing-cap/feather to fly...  :D 
 

:coffee::fire:

 

Edited by ManicManiac
Edited to use general terms
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3 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

 

I wouldn't say it's about convenience as it is more about what is realistic and makes sense, than what is not realistic and does not make sense. It just don't make sense that you cannot sleep on a bare floor or outside without a bedroll. 

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@kristaok
I understand where you are coming from.  I do.  However, sometimes a video game just has to video game.  It's not necessarily about being realistic.

I'll defer to the source... Raph from Dispatch #40:

Quote

Wait wait -- please don't use "realism" as an argument for or against a game mechanic (or any tuning around it). You've played this game long enough, or been in this community long enough, to know not to do that. We don't design for realism, and we don't use it as a metric to determine how something should or should not work in the game.

Edited by ManicManiac

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17 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@kristaok
I understand where you are coming from.  I do.  However, sometimes a video game just has to video game.  It's not necessarily about being realistic.

I'll defer to the source... Raph from Dispatch #40:

I know that this game isn't really going for realism, but again it don't make sense that you'd need a bedroll just to sleep. But perhaps it would be too hard to implement an option to sleep on the floor? seeing is that clicking anywhere on the ground may continuously trigger the sleep here option which would be quite annoying. 

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@kristaok I think it could be implemented in the UI interface where you find pass time. You could have the option to bivouac and regain energy at a lower rate than sleeping with no other benefits. This is inherently about realism but the why of adding that is it opens another choice to the problem solving player. Your going to be severely disadvantaged if your resting via bivvy only: is that choice better than the alternatives? I don't think it ruins the sleep/pass time option in terms of gameplay either. It would green the world design up to provide less beds or make the bedroll a bit heavier.

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We get 10 cloth from harvesting a bed roll, why not be able to craft a bed roll with 15 cloth? Could even save time and money by not coming up with its own look to implement and it being the same as regular bes rolls. Maybe 6 hours to craft? Can do in increments like any other craft at the table and you just need a sewing kit

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