SulphuricChipmunk

Are timberwolves too hard or am I doing something wrong?

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2 hours ago, tulkawen said:

Oh doh! I'm sorry for the spoilers! 😱

I hopped into this thread, did I not? I've been looking for tips, knowing that we need to balance fighting off those timberwolves and carrying people. Of course, those people could be dead or alive but based on the bit you shared I still have no idea which until I reach that part of the game. I still don't know how to hide spoilers. It could be impossible when posting from my phone.

Edited by Ape88

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(medium difficulty...  not the hard one) 

I'm carrying back my first survivor and I can not get past these wolves.  I came down the mountain and answered the phone at the collapsed shack at the edge of the river.  I rested, warmed us both up, and topped off water/food, then started my trek towards the town.

My first attempt, I kept going along the river directly towards the town.  I was attacked within a minute of leaving the shack.  I put the survivor down and defended myself as best I could.  I only have my rifle and 13 shots, one red flare, and one blue flare.  I can not get a bead on any of them and they slowly rip me apart.

I restart from the shack/phone call.  This time I take the other fork in the river towards Molly's house.  The music starts and I immediately put the survivor down next to a cliff face, start a fire, and prepare for the attack.  My second shot I got off was an extremely lucky shot and I killed one of the wolves.   The other one ran off.  Morale gauge was gone.   Encounter over.  I picked up the survivor and started walking again and within seconds, the music starts again.  I put the survivor back down and a few seconds later, 2 new wolves, with a full morale gauge, appear and begin their attacks.  This time, no lucky shots.  I spend my remaining 11 shots and both flares, and they are still attacking.  Even if I shot directly towards them, the gauge didn't move, except for 3 times out of 11 shots.  I got killed again.

The wolves were not effected by the fire or either of the flares.  They attacked the survivor, who was directly beside the fire, and they attacked me, standing directly in front of the survivor.  Even after I ran out of ammo I tried to grab a couple rocks and throw them and they did nothing as well. 

I'm really trying to enjoy this after such a long wait, but this is going to get old real fast.  I enjoy a challenge but I can not manage 2 fights in such quick succession.  IF I restart this whole episode I'll equip myself differently, but with what I have I don't see how I'm going to make it back to safety with this survivor. 

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As long as you are doing the rescue missions and you are carrying a survivor the attacks seem to be scripted and not avoidable. Even if you try to avoid them by moving far around them they will attack you. Besides this specific situation they just spawn like other animals and you can avoid them by just moving far around them.

Best and easiest approach to scare them off quickly is by waiting till they run directly at you. You need to track all of them what they are doing. The ones chasing and running around you won't attack as long as you watch at them and you keep being in a slight move. The one directly running on to you tend to stand still for 2-3 seconds in front of you as long as you watch at him and that is moment were you can give him a headshot with your rifle. The others will flee immediately. Same with the revolver. I guess it will work with the bow too but i haven't tried the bow yet.

Another tactic might be standing slightly off the survivor and wait till one is trying to attack the survivor. For a short moment they tend to stand in front of the survivor without attacking him. That's the moment to give the wolf a headshot. The others will flee immediately.

Edited by diosmio123

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On 10/25/2019 at 11:05 PM, the_watdabney said:

I was attacked within a minute of leaving the shack. 

I went down the river and climbed the left bank to where that small house is (the wolves will attack you as you go up the bank). I stayed one full night in that house and Gwen healed 100% while I slept there. This made it easier the next day to fight wolves as they will attack again once you leave that small house, but Gwen can take hits from them being fully healed. You can put Gwen in front of you and take shots at wolves when they stop to bite her and then use bandages to stop her bleeding once they run off. Then I left the small cabin and followed leftward along the cliffs all the way to the bridge where a straight road to town starts. Didn't go through Molly's.

I'm also finding these wolves a pain because fire doesn't seem to work on them.

I found Gwen's encounter the hardest to beat. That's where I died the most.

Edited by tulkawen

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Few thoughts on that .... [SPOILER ALARM!]

Before making any comments or observations I want to say that (especially since ther are certain individuals that are very fond of the game and feel a hightened need to defend and protect the game and the developers from everything that looks like it could escalate into criticism) I am very fond of how much depth Timberwolves already bring to the game and potentially will bring to the game if a few quirks can be ironed out - which I am rather confident they will be. Writing AI isn't a slouch, especially not if you do not know the playing field you send your AI onto. And considering that and the computational limitations of a normal PC or even a Jaguar Console (whose CPU performance today rivals that of a mid-tier smartphone) the Timberwolves already display an impressively well coordinated pack behaviour. This paragraph also serves as a reminder that there are SPOILERS ahead. It is also a warning that a menacing wall of text is looming....

TL;DR: Stay healthy! Improve your gear! Bring bandages! Do sidequests! When with a survivor or to slow to escape stand your ground, find a wall to lean against, and give them hell with the revolver. When alone and mobile and you want to avoid a fight light a Marine Flare, hold onto it, and seek shelter. 

First off: keeping your survivor and yourself topped off like @tulkawen suggests really is a good idea. I know many (especially lopers) are conditioned to save matches over health, but it really isn't neccessary even on Hardened Survivor, so better make frequent stops rather than trying to save that extra match and then lack the headroom to survive an encounter. Also if you have a save haven (there are a few along the way) where you can stay for a half a day.... do so and rest if you need it. There is no timer, as far as I am aware. Gwen or any other survivor (literally) isn't going anywhere.

Then: fires don't work .... at all. Please don't give false advice here @youknowwhoyouare. Personally I feel like that actually is a good change and maybe should be true for normal wolfes as well - in some way. But this makes running around at night is a really bad idea, even more than usually, especially since Timberwolves will happily have at you while you are chanting your "Come on little fire". Standing over a tiny torch or flare will do you little good as you'll never react fast enough to things lunging at you from the dark. Also Timberwolves seem to react to smell just as the normal ones, but only attack if they have a companion nearby. So running around with a big stack of meat in your bag will attract some attention - but afaik they do not react to dropping bait. So ... not carrying a lot of smellies might be a good idea.

A good strategy really is to get your behind to a wall. A solid wall, that is, since they will just bite through thin walls like those of a barn or burned down house. If that's all the wall you can get leave a bit of a buffer between you and the wall (i.e. make sure your hitbox isn't sticking through the wall). Cars also will do fine to some extend, trees ... not so much. But in general removing the angle you cannot observe makes the encounter much easier. In all honesty: everything that limits their freedom of movement works to your advantage, especially since the path finding algorithms of those freezers seem to glitch a lot when deprived of space to maneuver. (Albeit this seems to be a good bit better with 1.61)

One thing to note is that there is decently protective gear available on this map if you do the side quests - which you should do. Damage reduction is definitely taken into account when it comes to how much damage wolf bites inflict, and 20% damage reduction makes a difference of 2-3 more hits you can take before going down. The bunker questline is definitely worth the loot, not only for the gear. Retrospectively I would even do it before rescuing Gwen.

Blue flares are the Anti-Timberwolf-Joker - > if held <. Throwing and hitting a wolf with one of them does a lot of morale damage, but actually keeping onto them (as far as I have seen it) guarantees that while they will surround you .... they will not charge you. If you stand next to your survivor that works even for them. But there comes the problem: they burn out quickly, and as soon as you drop them (to pick up a rifle, for example) they lose their protective properties. So they really are only an option to outrun a wolf pack if you are alone and know where to find shelter soon, or if you need a temporary respite in a fight that is not going so well (for instance to bandage yourself). If your Marine Flare is about to burn out .... try hitting a Timberwolf with it and pull your Revolver and fire one or two times. That should be sufficient.

Normal flares and torches do work when thrown at them to some extend, especially their feet, like you would do with normal wolves. However you really need some practice and patience to succeed with this, and you will take damage. Stones don't work at all. A flare gun seems to work okay-ish, but it's too expensive to use as a deterrant, and reloads to slow. The rifle works just as well, can be fired in faster succession, and is more available than flare shells. The revolver can be fired even faster, doesn't pack the same punch, but ammunition is all but abundant.

Which kinda gets to the actual problem with this: It's all nice and good to kill the morale of those wolves, but they will return, and sometimes even find a friend on the way. If you are alone you should be able to leave the area fast enough. If you are carrying someone on your back or are loaded with 60 kilograms of loot (which is a realistic prospect considering there is a massive fetch task in the episode) things might not work out so well.

As long as I am with a survivor I find the better strategy is that when I am already an immovable object I might as well become an unstoppable force - hence stand my ground. The rifle has excellent chances of dropping a wolf, but you have to aim it, and its reloading time really does become a bit of a problem here. This really is the revolvers playing field. (Finally this thing makes sense!) It is completely sufficient to wound a wolf to make it drop out of the pack, and a wounded wolf will not come back. Also if you know where the middle of your screen is and you have got a feeling for how close those wolves come before they decide to do damage, you pretty much have the perfect range for a fast shot from the hip rather than having to aim, which actually might prompt a wolf to charge you. If you hit a wolf chances are the scare is already over. If you don't you did decent morale damage and you are ready to fire again in no time.

Bottom line Timberwolves definitely are a far greather threat, not because they do more damage, or take more hits, but simply because you cannot "game" them (which is a good thing!). On the other hand: running into 4 Timberwolves is solvable. Running into 4 normal wolves without a burning torch or quick fingers to pop a fire is not. But there is no clear cut defense against Timberwolves, at least not one that leaves you unscathed. But even on Hardened Survivor that isn't a problem. On Interloper it would be, but I guess that is one of the reasons we don't see Timberwolves in Survival (yet?).

All of that being said I understand the frustration people are having. Dealing with Timberwolves is unintuitive in a sense in that most of the muscle memory on how to deal with wolves in general doesn't work. The META of dealing with wolves revolves around fire, baiting and outrunning. None of this applies here. On the contrary: while you would normally avoid shooting a wolf unless you had a good chance to hit, now you kinda have to hold into them, hope to hit one or two times, and simply come to terms with sustaining some damage. Learning how to deal with the new breed involves a lot of trial and error, and hence: dying. This is something experienced players might have forgotten to have gone through with normal wolves years ago before they developed strategies to outsmart them with almost pinpoint accuracy. But, bottom line, I think they are a good addition to the game and they really play well into the entire setting of the episode.

Edited by jeffpeng
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2 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

The META of dealing with wolves revolves around fire, baiting and outrunning

Decent and informative post. 

The style of I developed was to climb and avoid wolves.  The previous mechanic of mouse button mashing to end struggles with wolves pushed me to seek higher ground.  Also climbing the fallen trees to break the wolf's pathfinding is an excellent maneuver.

My goat style has not yet tested these beasties so I am excited in getting in the ring with them and play some story mode.  

Edited by Ice Hole
Struggles With Wolves starring Kotsner Cevin

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One shot and direct hit from the Pistol will make them flee, at least it does in my case, but if you miss it could take a couple of shots.

EDIT: How I made it through during the carry missions: I never died during that mission because I made sure to keep Astrid and the survivors at full health at all times, I made sure to rest along the way, and to keep a loaded Pistol on hand.

Edited by kristaok

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2 hours ago, Ice Hole said:

My goat style has not yet tested these beasties so I am excited in getting in the ring with them and play some story mode.  

Let's say that while they are interested in goats, they do not know how to handle these otherwordly, mythical creatures.

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5 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

But there is no clear cut defense against Timberwolves, at least not one that leaves you unscathed. But even on Hardened Survivor that isn't a problem.

Yes there is. Not missing your shots killing a wolf destroys the moral of any packs less than five. On groups of five or more the others run long enough to reload a rifle or bow and you get six successive shots with the revolver. If some one kills a pack of six with the revolver not letting one escape the first volley I tip my hat to you.

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2 hours ago, Ice Hole said:

The style of I developed was to climb and avoid wolves.  The previous mechanic of mouse button mashing to end struggles with wolves pushed me to seek higher ground.  Also climbing the fallen trees to break the wolf's pathfinding is an excellent maneuver.

My goat style has not yet tested these beasties so I am excited in getting in the ring with them and play some story mode.

The timber wolves can climb vertically in some cases so obstructing there path finding can be difficult.

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3 minutes ago, RegentRelic said:

Yes there is. Not missing your shots killing a wolf destroys the moral of any packs less than five. On groups of five or more the others run long enough to reload a rifle or bow and you get six successive shots with the revolver. If some one kills a pack of six with the revolver not letting one escape the first volley I tip my hat to you.

Since the average TLD player usually isn't also a professional CS:GO player I would not refer to "not missing your shots" as a clear cut defense.

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58 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Let's say that while they are interested in goats, they do not know how to handle these otherwordly, mythical creatures.

I am not sure on how to respond to otherwordly (otherworldly) but certainly enjoy the term mythical.  :fire:

9 minutes ago, RegentRelic said:

The timber wolves can climb vertically in some cases so obstructing there path finding can be difficult.

This sounds like fun!

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Just now, Ice Hole said:

otherwordly

🤣Holy smokes. I would have never seen that.

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3 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

🤣Holy smokes. I would have never seen that.

Read your comment before and missed it that too. 

Only after quoting did the red underline appear and I noticed or maybe I am just OCD with spelling.

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13 minutes ago, Ice Hole said:

I am just OCD with spelling.

If so ...  *drumroll* probably battery powered *crash*.

Edited by jeffpeng
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So i found this thread, and all advice above is null and void sadly.

These zombie wolves does not fear gunshots, a flare to the face, rocks, or fires.

I literally have one on me now that has taken 3 flares to the face, and just lost 20% morale so far. Im out of ammo, out of flares for the gun, out of normal flares, and now just sitting by the fire waiting to die.

Normal wolves doesnt attack humans. Its extremely rare. They are scared of humans and are scared easily by gunshots. Taking a signal flare to the face would send them fleeing over the hills for sure.

So what is wrong with these wolves? Is it infected with some viral virus?

I had an aurora night and a timberwolf party of 4 attack me on the first survivor. So naturally my limited ammo ended there. The story also urges you to push on to save these survivors, so i havent done any side quests yet. Its urgent to save humans.

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Lol, i waited 5 hours by the fire and the wolf is still there. Congratulations on breaking the immersive experience, Hinterland games. The Timberwolves morale meter is the dumbest feature in the game :(

Norwegian explorer Lars Monsen hiked 8800km across Canada and filmed it all. He has zero issues with wolves, because they just dont attack people. Recently a woman in Alaska was subject to the first wolf attack in about 100 years. The Timberwolves is not how wolves in real world work at all. The aurora wolves, sure, i get that, a little sci-fi is my cup of tea. But normal wolves, doesnt.

Had to reload a game 60 minutes previous, trying to find ammo now. The convicts side quests only gave me 3 rounds for the revolver and my total was up 25 rounds before the air plane. Not sure where this bountiful cache of ammo could be. Heading to the survival bunker now. If i dont get ambushed along the way by the Avengers team of wherewolves that you patched into an otherwise good game.

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Timberwolves or how  to ruin a perfectly good game in one update. No more recommendations to friends for this game.

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I have developed strategy on my EP 3 and I am using it in BI in my voyger run. It is "Stay calm and have back protected". When the attack occur, I search for the protection of my back. Even thick trees are working but wall or rock is better. Bring up the revolver. Then I watch the group. The closest one is the object of my watch. When he slows down and stops to take a bite, quickly aim and shoot. 4Lvl pack can be delt with in 3 rounds.

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On 1/23/2020 at 5:17 AM, acada said:

"Stay calm and have back protected"

Back protection is such a wonderful strategy.  I can tell you from experience having me bear behind is the best way.

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@Ice Hole I have seen your videos. Have you considered possibility to invite someone else to the party? A Mr. Moose maybe?

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The idea of bringing Mr. Moose over to the cannery did occur to me as it took a long time to walk Mr. Bear.  The only issue is Mr. Moose does not just slowly follow as does Mr/ Bear.  Instead it will likely charge once it spots the player.   There is a possibility to use stones to scare herd him over to the cannery.

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