Compass

[Eylhardt]

Not sure if tis was already asked for...

Would be helpful when the fog rolled in or during blizzards.

There should be a few to be found in huts and blinds or on The Frozen Ones. Then again - who is still using a compass now that you have GPS capable smart phones.

[Serenity]

The idea is that the geomagnetic disaster and changes makes them useless

[ManicManiac]

@Serenity is spot on.

Besides, outside of the reason laid out by the lore... not being able to have a compass is also wonderful in this game because it causes the player to get creative and use other methods for learning about and navigating through the wonders of Great Bear Island.  Having to pay attention to our surroundings and what we're doing is of primary importance in this game.

All in all, I'd say a compass is really just not need. 

Just thinking about it makes me hungry for a new region to explore... I really long to experience that "new TLD scent" again  

Edited September 13, 2019 by ManicManiac

[Serenity]

You can see how bad it is when playing Wintermute. There you basically have a GPS on your map which allows you to move around blind. It doesn't improve the gameplay at all.

There are certainly areas where you can get lost, but they've also added a lot of landmarks to help you navigate.

[StrangerFromTheInternet]

I mean, technically compasses are already part of the game. Just drop a stick on the ground - it'll always face in the same direction 😛

[Alitari]

I had forgotten about the geomagnetic thing screwing things up ... but it clearly isn't a constant phenomenon, as the borealis only occurs intermittently and only at night (if the geomagnetic activity could happen during the day, you may not see the lights in the sky, but you'd get radios sparking up, computers turning on, etc.)  I can see compass' not working during those periods but otherwise ... (I know that's the rationale for why the wildlife has suddenly become more aggressive, but animals will become aggressive if they're starving, and with unending winter, predators will be hungry).  My take is that long term technological devices aren't useful because you never know when a geomagnetic storm will hit, but the moment to moment magnetic field is still stable.

[ajb1978]

There's nothing to indicate that the field is stable when the aurora isn't in the sky.  We could just as easily be dealing with "unstable" and "ridiculously unstable".

At any rate, the devs have already made two huge concessions for Story mode as it is.  Originally the stance was "No maps will be in the game. Feel free to draw your own."  But that got negative pushback from the player base, and finally it's like ok fine, they introduced charcoal mapping with Faithful Cartographer.  And then people started asking for a GPS, and the stance was that no, you need to learn to navigate by landmarks.  But the pushback was still present, so for Story mode they made another concession and started showing the player's position and orientation (like a GPS).  But Survivor mode stayed true to the original vision.  It's intended to be a different experience for the player.  A GPS does make sense in Story mode.  Story mode is about completing specific tasks and advancing the plot, so if you get lost and don't know where you are that directly detracts from the storytelling experience.  But Survivor mode, getting lost and not knowing where you are ADDS to the experience.  Exploration is the whole point.  So I wouldn't expect a GPS added to Survivor mode now or ever.

I wouldn't mind a Custom mode toggle "show player position on map" being added to enable this feature in Survivor mode, but really once you've played the game enough you don't need it.  Maybe if you get a raw deal and start a Survivor run in dense fog, it might take you a bit longer to get oriented, but there's enough unique landmarks in the game that veteran players really don't need maps.

And for people that DO need maps...enjoy that experience of getting lost and sense of uncertainty as to what lies over that next hill!  Apart from the rare occasion where they release new regions, that's something you only get to experience for the first couple hundred hours or so.  So soak it up while it lasts.

[MarrowStone]

10 hours ago, Alitari said:

but it clearly isn't a constant phenomenon

 To me it seems constant, but very weak outside of auroras, that would explain certain things working outside of the aurora in story mode. 

1 hour ago, ajb1978 said:

I wouldn't mind a Custom mode toggle "show player position on map" being added to enable this feature in Survivor mode

It should be a Feat, "Map X amount of locations cumulatively", that way players can choose to equip it when starting the game instead of toggling it if they get hopelessly lost in a game they didn't prepare for. It wouldn't tempt players with an "easy way out".

It also would reward new players for exploring a little bit first! This way, when they do get the feat, they might realize they don't need it, and have to sacrifice a feat slot (which shouldn't be an issue for newer players or those on Pilgrim/Voyageur)

Edited November 17, 2019 by MarrowStone

[ajb1978]

20 minutes ago, MarrowStone said:

It should be a Feat, "Map X amount of locations cumulatively"

Oo I like that.  I would make a point to earn that just for the sake of earning it.  Like map 500 named locations across multiple survivor games, or something like that.  I believe there's 176 named locations in the game so hypothetically you could achieve this in just three survivor games, if you're thorough.

[ajb1978]

12 minutes ago, stay puft said:

On my current interloper run I have discovered 227 locations and I have not been to the updated PV which I'm assuming will unlock 1 or 2 new locations 1 by the plane and 1 at Thompson's Crossing.

Yeah interior locations are different than named locations.  Named locations are entirely outdoors, and consist of map icons like the Camp Office, as well as location triggers like Derailment.  Something like transitioning from the Upper Dam to Lower Dam would count as a Location in your journal, but not as a named location for advancing the Faithful Cartographer feat.

[MarrowStone]

5 hours ago, stay puft said:

I see what your saying now

To be honest I didn't know the game recorded locations in that way.. good to know

I'm okay with it using either "map" or "discovered", the discovered location route might be better since newer players might not have the time or knowledge to map and we want this Feat to be unlocked relatively early (But not first) so that newer players can use it before it can be replaced by better ones. 

I'm thinking it should show position but not direction so that it teaches you to use landmarks to find your heading. 

[MarrowStone]

4 hours ago, stay puft said:

I'm waiting for the release of more zones🤞 until I go for it

Youre crazy! I guess you can be even more proud of your accomplishment when youre done. haha.

[UpUpAway95]

14 hours ago, stay puft said:

lol

I know most people would get mad if Hinterland did this but I feel when all the zones have been released everybody's Faithful Cartographer achievement should be reset.

I'd prefer they just the current achievement as it is and add an additional achievement for doing the additional mapping of the new zones... Faithful Cartographer as the lower level achievement and then something like the Relentless Cartographer as the higher level achievement.  I wouldn't want them to go with just a "discovered" system unless they take the word "Cartographer" out of it... so, Relentless Explorer might be a better term for the achievement if it doesn't actually required mapping.  IMO, Achievements should never be arbitrarily reset when game additions occur.  It's a badge for completing a specific requirement at a specific point in time.  New achievements should be added when additions are made to the game after release.

As for the compass idea, I probably wouldn't carry one anyways due to weight limitations.

Edited November 19, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[Cr41g]

On 11/18/2019 at 10:43 AM, stay puft said:

lol

I know most people would get mad if Hinterland did this but I feel when all the zones have been released everybody's Faithful Cartographer achievement should be reset.

achievements and trophy resets I would think would be outside Hinterlands purview... and under the control of the platform constructor...and yes people would get mad...especially if it had been years since they completed it... I realize you are proud of your progress, but don't inflict it on the rest of us

[UpUpAway95]

3 hours ago, Cr41g said:

achievements and trophy resets I would think would be outside Hinterlands purview... and under the control of the platform constructor...and yes people would get mad...especially if it had been years since they completed it... I realize you are proud of your progress, but don't inflict it on the rest of us

I am not inflicting anything on anyone.  If the achievement stays in as is then new people can obtain it by mapping the same number of locations I did to obtain it.  A new different achievement would be granted for doing the additional locations.  You'd be one inflicting a redo of all the locations I've already mapped onto me to reacquire an achievement I already have.

As for their ability to add achievements, other games have added achievements when they've added content.  Minecraft, for example, has many more acheivements now than when I first started playing it.  All the old original achievements are still there and I have never had to reacquire them, but they've added more new achievements with each big update... and the updates were free as well.  I honestly can't see why TLD couldn't make the same sort of arrangement with their platform hosts (Xbox, PS, and PC ones) as Minecraft.

[ManicManiac]

The Faithful Cartographer achievement has been updated before, and if that's any indicator it likely will be again...

Faithful Cartographer Achievement Locations in The Long Dark [SPOILERS] - Updated for VIGILANT FLAME

Edited November 20, 2019 by ManicManiac

[Guest kristaok]

I just want the "OPTION" to have a Map Marker like in Wintermute.

[Guest jeffpeng]

On 11/17/2019 at 5:34 PM, ajb1978 said:

And for people that DO need maps...enjoy that experience of getting lost and sense of uncertainty as to what lies over that next hill!  Apart from the rare occasion where they release new regions, that's something you only get to experience for the first couple hundred hours or so.  So soak it up while it lasts.

Nothing will bring back TWM and HRV the way they were before I could navigate those regions basically blindfolded  Very good advice.

On 11/17/2019 at 7:12 PM, MarrowStone said:

It should be a Feat, "Map X amount of locations cumulatively", that way players can choose to equip it when starting the game instead of toggling it if they get hopelessly lost in a game they didn't prepare for. It wouldn't tempt players with an "easy way out".

That's actually an amazing idea and the only way I would personally support this being implemented.

9 hours ago, kristaok said:

I just want the "OPTION" to have a Map Marker like in Wintermute.

And I personally would like an option to disable maps altogehter. We humans are a diverse breed

[stratvox]

I like the charcoal maps; I think the art dimension of them plus the fact that they're really a map without things to tell you where you are outside of committing  a mapping action (i.e. they behave like a paper map you hold in your hand) is good. I'd be very very disappointed if they started putting map HUD stuff on it, personally. One of the truly winning aspects of this game is that it refuses hand-holding. This makes you need to figure out how to navigate the way you actually would in a similar situation... by learning the lay of the land and navigating by landmarks.

Just Say No to a location and direction marker!

[Guest jeffpeng]

I guess another good point against location marking ....

When FC came out I was actually still pretty new to the game (well a year in  ) so it actually proved kinda useful to learn the maps, especially the new ones that came later, meaning MT and especially HRV. I guess especially HRV would have been hard to figure out without the maps as fast as I did. But in the rather special case of HRV I also think that having a map marker would have actually made it harder, not easier.

The reasoning here is: when you use your map you actually have to look around to make out where you are. You indeed navigate by landmarks. That makes you actually look at the terrain. With a GPS like map and direction marker you just look up where you are, look up where you wanna end up, "aim" yourself .... and go - and chances are you miss everything in between. This might actually make you miss things you'd otherwise have looked at in an attempt to determine your position. In the case of HRV .... I might have never figured out one of the many winding paths you need to traverse to successfully navigate this maze.

My reasoning for an option to disable them .... just so that I cannot "map" my way out of a situation when I actually do get lost - which does happen, albeit rarely. It's something probably nobody really needs so I never actually made that suggestion before.

[MarrowStone]

1 hour ago, Dum_Gen said:

I would disagree with you in a sense that this type of compass is more useful for the new players. More experienced ones can disable this option to make their game harder.

At the same time, I partially agree that this option should be activated only when a new game is created, as a customization option. However, I don't think that it should occupy a feat 

Yeah, It only being an option upon creation allows for player choice on a feature they may not want. 

It occupying a feat is the only way I'd see it working in the original difficulty modes. If youre playing a custom run, you could just enable it inside the toolbox.

It's meant to be a feat that encourages exploration (map/discover locations) so that in a a way it's sneakily training new players to not need it in the first place, especially since it would most likely be replaced by better ones when they run out of extra feat slots. 

To balance it out, maybe it just spawns you in with a filled map, but no location. Or maybe it shows location but not direction. I don't want it to be very effective during blizzards/fog so showing direction is a no-go for me. 

[Guest jeffpeng]

I really think most people, especially those new to the game, do not realize that part of the "fun" of this game is getting lost.

One of my earliest adventures in TLD took place in Mystery Lake. I still was scared shootless of wolves, but took on a voyage to explore the river coming from the lake. I simply underestimated how long that route would take me, so I got suprised by night falling. By the time I reached what I today know is train unloading it was pitch black and windy, wolves howling eerily close to me, and I was stumbling through the night until I was lucky enough to find a spot at which I could sustain a fire, but I had no clue where I was at that point. I was utterly and completely lost.

I stayed up all night, afraid to go to sleep and have the fire die on me, subsequently ending up as wolf food. At around 4 or 5 in the morning, starving and sleep deprived, my last book went into the fire. I held onto the embers as long as I could, and even stayed about half an hour in the freezing cold holding on to my last flare, ready to light it when I would hear this growling I had come to fear. The growling never came, but dawn came to rescue me. I found myself not far from the derailment. With the train tracks and the crashed train carts I had a good sense of where I was and got home safe and sound.

From today's perspective, knowing Mystery Lake as well as only years of roaming the frozen wastes can teach you, this story sounds almost hilarious to me. I achieved exactly nothing that day / night. But I had one of my best The Long Dark experiences ever, and I vividly remember it almost 4 years later. I don't have to point out how that kind of story would have been utterly impossible with a compas. 

[Guest jeffpeng]

Another good example of this is actually how I conquered Timberwolf Mountain.

When I got there I had no idea where to go, where to explore and what to achieve. I just read there was a plane crashed on the summit. So I said to myself "up I go" and held left after entering the region. I soon found the rope that lead up to the plateau with the first engine, found the cave, stumbled my way through it, found the other engine, of course had no hacksaw to open the containers, found another rope, climbed that one, found the "Three Way Cave", realized then I had gone in a circle ending up back at the engine, retracking to the cave, taking the other way, and somehow finding the rope to deer clearing. I made my way all the way to Eric's Falls and back before I started to figure out how to approach the summit.

By the time I finally got there I had been living off the land for three ingame weeks, killing a bear, several deer and a metric ton of wolves. Recovering all the supplies from the Summit to the Deer Clearing Cave (which had become my home by that time) took me another week. From there I started exploring routes I had not until then, and maybe 5 weeks after first setting foot onto Timberwolve Mountain I discovered the Lake.... and the hut. In my head the hut was infinitely far away from the entrace to the region. I don't know how long it took me to realize the true layout of the map.

Yes, I enjoyed that very much

 

[ManicManiac]

20 hours ago, Dum_Gen said:

I would disagree with you in a sense that this type of compass is more useful for the new players.

And in my opinion, the best thing for new players is to learn how to navigate through the world by way of paying attention to their surroundings and basic orienteering techniques (since it seems to me that was part of the point of there not being a compass to begin with).

I respect Hinterland's creative/design decisions for their game.  It seems clear that they don't feel that a compass is nessisarry for players... and from my personal experience, I agree.  It's not difficult to figure out how to orient and navigate without such things in this game.

I see no need whatsoever for a compass in this game, and I think it would take away far too much from the game were it to be added.
 

In my view it's bad enough that we already have one bit of handholding and "player safety nets" in the form of the "...are you sure you want to eat that?" prompt... I think the last thing this game needs is more things designed to make life easier for our survivor.  I feel that "the struggle" and the need for careful and deliberate action are some of the vital components of the essential "flavor" of this game.

Edited November 21, 2019 by ManicManiac

[MarrowStone]

10 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

I really think most people, especially those new to the game, do not realize that part of the "fun" of this game is getting lost.

I agree, once you get a good 70 percent reliability on knowing where you are and how to get places, you only truly get lost in blizzards, fog, (and HRV) lol. My most memorable deaths were from the uncertainty of what's around the corner. 

Personally I disagree with a compass of any sort in survival, but contributing to the ideas around it and sharing how I'd prefer it to be implemented is more fun than saying, "No" and leaving it at that. I feel like a lot of new members of the forums get intimidated when they're shot down for suggesting something outside of the game's vision. It also hopefully helps ideas get implemented in a way I'd prefer if it is adopted by the developers.