Weather visibility

[NUFFMAN]

Would it be possible to get a tip on the current weather when you’re in a house with windows? Would save going out in foggy conditions etc to check

[ManicManiac]

@NUFFMAN,
Yeah maybe... but it's not that big of a chore to go outside and look.   

Apart from that, the team would have to weigh the difficulty of making the change against the value it would add to the game.  Personally I don't really see that one detail adding much to the gameplay over all... especially considering how much work they would have to do to change it.  I like it as it is.

*(You'll have to forgive me, I misread your question initially - I thought you were asking about changing it so you could see the outside world from windows... after re-reading it seemed you were asking a different question.  @rancid0's post sort of lead it in that direction so I guess I kind of mentally lumped them together when I first wrote this)

To the question you ask specifically, sure it's possible...  The world is full of audible indicators.  Most bad weather, be it a blizzard or just a bad windstorm you can hear from inside structures and even caves.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by ManicManiac
Edited for clarity...

[NUFFMAN]

Yeah mate would be cool to see out of the windows, but I actually meant being close to the window just gives an indication of wether there’s low visibility and high winds or clear sky with low wind etc

That way you could make a decision whether you travel, before actually exiting the building. Like in real life 🤷‍♂️

Game is amazing though. Hours and hours of fun. And then more hours

 

[ManicManiac]

@rancid0 I see where you are coming from, but for me it's more about the struggle than the convenience.  I like their creative choices (or perhaps choices made due to limitations they faced at the time).  I've never wanted to feel safe in this game, so having to risk sticking my head out to asses my situation is something I kind of like about it.   

[ManicManiac]

24 minutes ago, rancid0 said:

Im not trying to be an ass i just don't understand what would be easier about this change?

Not to worry, I don't think you are  

What I was saying is that it's not that grueling of a chore to step outside to take a look (that's all).  When I'm playing on my laptop those loading screens you seem to indicate are bothersome don't last but maybe a few seconds...which is not really a problem for me.  Most houses the windows are sort of "visibly frozen over."  Which to me makes sense since it's deep cold and perpetually winter.  I'm more surprised that we don't have situations where a door could get frozen shut, trapping us inside... or outside.  (thinking deviously about making this a wish list topic all it's own)

Edited August 7, 2019 by ManicManiac

[ThePancakeLady]

7 hours ago, NUFFMAN said:

Yeah mate would be cool to see out of the windows, but I actually meant being close to the window just gives an indication of wether there’s low visibility and high winds or clear sky with low wind etc

That way you could make a decision whether you travel, before actually exiting the building. Like in real life 🤷‍♂️

Game is amazing though. Hours and hours of fun. And then more hours

 

But the cues are there, if you look and listen. Windy outside? You will hear the wind blowing, roof rattling, boards creaking and snapping. Sunny? Light will stream through the windows and the interior will be brighter, with shafts of light often streaming through windows and open doorways. The later or foggier or more overcast it is outside, the less those rays will show, the lower the quality and amount of lighting will be in a room or building with windows. The color you see "through" the windows themselves will become "gloomier", more grey and dampened. On sunny days, as the sun rises higher, more pronounced areas of light and shadows on objects near windows will be, if it is cloudy or foggy outside, those bright highlights and deep shadows will fade, disappear. The brighter it is outside, the more dust particles you will see highlighted by the sunlight coming through the windows. The more cloudy or foggy it is outside, the less you will see them, or you won't see them at all. (This also changes respective to the time of day and the sun's position in the sky... look at opposing sides of a building with windows, from inside, on a sunny day... the lighting will be more even through opposite sides at Noon, brighter on one side if the sun is rising or setting to one side or the other). 

The cues are there, you just need to take a few moments to observe them.  Hinterland pays attention to these details, it is up to us to notice them and figure out what they are showing or telling us.

Edited August 8, 2019 by ThePancakeLady
typo corrected ill>will

[ThePancakeLady]

1 hour ago, rancid0 said:

 what the OP is asking for and what i said would not affect the difficulty of the game one bit just save time

And it takes hardy any extra time to observe the cues and clues that the game gives you when moving through a structure with windows or mine with an open cyclone fence type gate. It's all there, you just have to actually pay attention to what is going on around you, just as you should be observing signs and cues when you are out in the wilds.

 

2 hours ago, ThePancakeLady said:

The cues are there, you just need to take a few moments to observe them.  Hinterland pays attention to these details, it is up to us to notice them and figure out what they are showing or telling us.

You know I respect your views and opinions. But if saving a real world second or two is your biggest concern in this game... you may be playing the wrong game. Carelessness, haste, and not paying attention to the world around you, and what you are doing in it, is what gets you killed in this game. Just my 2¢.

[Serenity]

It would be nice, but it probably very, very hard to implement. It seems like interior locations are actually different maps. Or at least you get teleported to some other location on the same map away from the regular word. Some houses are bigger on the inside than outside. Just look at the Camp Office! So they'd have to redo a lot of stuff

[UpUpAway95]

48 minutes ago, rancid0 said:

But THE BIGGEST REASON Is that it would make the rooms look better...I don't understand why ppl want to walk around dark rooms even in the day (and I'm not trying to be mean but this is a game not real life so i don't like that argument)

I find the darkish rooms adds atmosphere to this game, making it feel more like homes that have been abandoned and closed up for some period of time.  Humidity in the home causing frost on windows seems appropriate to me and does a buildup of grime on the glass.  Pretty, well lit and clean rooms just don't seem as appropriate to the setting "story" of this game.

The low light in the homes makes the game more difficult in more ways than just about not revealing the close proximity of predators.  Players can more easily miss loot.  Players can find themselves unable to find the bed in the home or the door on dark aurora-less nights... causing them to perhaps having to choose whether or not to light a match to torch in order to see where they are.  If you want things well lit all the time, you can use your flares, storm lanterns, and even innumerable torches pulled from fires to light the interior of homes while you're walking through them (all that takes is a little planning and forethought on your part, which is part of this game).

As for the weather, as others have already pointed out, the cues are there.  You only need to notice them.

[ManicManiac]

Some here seem to be taking this topic a little more personally than I think is called for.   

As ThePancakeLady and I have already pointed out, there are already cues there for us (she was able to articulate it better than I was initially willing to take the time to do).  A player just needs to be paying attention, and even if those context clues aren't apparent to a particular player... I still say it's not that big a chore to step outside and look.  This game (to me) is not about being lazy, comfortable, or safe...  Some posters here seem to be asking for a convenience in a game they also want to keep brutal and challenging; these are incongruent points of view.

I still don't see a need to change the game where this topic is concerned. 

[UpUpAway95]

44 minutes ago, rancid0 said:

you have not read my thread post properly

On the contrary, I think I clearly and correctly read the portion of your post I cited and gave you a legitimate reason why I happen to "like" the darkish rooms in this game.  It's not really about "real life," it's about creating an in-game atmosphere suitable to the story being presented in the game and about adding a small additional challenge to the game in the process... a point where the player may, if they don't play their cards right, might be compelled to consider expending a valuable match in order to see to either get to a bed or to leave the house itself.

My last sentence was addressing the OP's points about the weather... in order to properly give my opinion on the  actual topic of this particular thread.

[ThePancakeLady]

4 hours ago, rancid0 said:

Everything i ask for in this game in mainly for visual reasons Im an interloper player and I have not died in this game in over a year(real life) and when i did i killed myself, I know this makes me sound like a douche but this game is easy as pie I don't die ever, nothing is hard about this game and i have never seen another person get better stats then me IMO so it's not about making it easier this is about making the game prettier and IMO more convenient.

I am not going to engage in an argument with you, when it seem to me that you are not understanding what I was saying. And trying to "call me out" by naming me in another thread you created feels like you are trying to attack me. So, you feel attacked, I feel attacked, we all feel attacked. We're even then, I guess? 

(And BTW, I play on XBox One... we have longer loading screens there also. I have actually put 2000+ hours into the game on console, and ~900 in on PC, on a toaster, where everything is slower as well, because... I play on a TOASTER.)

You have your opinions, I have mine. We can leave it at that. Thanks. You can stop accusing me of attacking you when you post new threads, please? Especially when I never attacked you. Thanks.

Edited August 8, 2019 by ThePancakeLady
clarification

[XAlaskan_420X]

It is true that the windows show different hues and brightness and rays or no rays to represent the current weather. Trying to read the windows light and color before going outside is something that I'm practicing. But I have trouble recognizing the differences of the window appearance in cloudy v.s. foggy weather. Can anybody help with that? Is foggy more gray or green than cloudy? Or dimmer? 
Its obvious when it is sunny as it is the only weather that will put sun rays through the windows - I think this is only an only issue when it comes to being able to tell the difference between cloudy and foggy from inside. I think it would be more valuable to be able to tell the difference between foggy v.s. cloudy than even cloudy v.s. sunny because cloudy v.s. foggy is a huge difference in visibility, I mean the foggiest weather in the game is when a wolf can jump at your face from in the fog. Where as cloudy v.s. sunny isn't as important to me because either way I still have good distant visibility. I plant my trips around visibility (granted I have food on me) so you can see how, with my play style, this would be more important to me.
I play on the oldest xbox one, so load times when going in and out are a bit longer than it would be on a good pc. Though now my game is starting to stutter and hickup, I think it is an issue with the hardware wearing out rather than the game. A better PC or newer xbox model would solve both I am sure with quicker load times and less or no stuttering.

EDIT: 
The stuttering is more frequent when I am running multiple apps (2 or 3) simultaneously. When I close everything but the game, the stuttering is not noticeable.

Edited August 11, 2019 by XAlaskan_420X
In addition

[XAlaskan_420X]

On 8/7/2019 at 1:45 PM, NUFFMAN said:

Yeah mate would be cool to see out of the windows, but I actually meant being close to the window just gives an indication of wether there’s low visibility and high winds or clear sky with low wind etc

That way you could make a decision whether you travel, before actually exiting the building. Like in real life 🤷‍♂️

Game is amazing though. Hours and hours of fun. And then more hours

 

Your idea here is similar to one idea that I had. I have a thread on that if you want to see it and the conversations circulating that idea. It's at least similar in the sense that it is about weather-reading with windows - in that category. 
https://hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/22771-click-on-windows-indoors-to-get-outdoor-weather-status/?tab=comments#comment-157467

I would still like to see some addition on weather-reading with windows. But I wouldn't be super bummed out if it didn't happen. I think audible character dialog (activated by clicking on the window) was the coolest idea in the thread.

 

[ManicManiac]

@XAlaskan_420X,
In both cases, I still think it's just not that big a chore to go outside and assess the situation.  I just don't think that adding this change would be worth the work, resources, and time when compared to the very small convenience it would add.  As I mentioned in another thread (that has since been deleted by the OP), the other posts similar to this it seems like folks are basically requesting a convenience, while in other threads clamoring for the game to be "more challenging;" these are incongruent ideas.   (i.e. We want it challenging... but we also want it convenient )

There are already a few structures where you can look out the windows, and perhaps the team will add more structures like these going forward.  I would wager that it would just not be practical to overhaul entire regions just so we can look out a window.  Besides, it's understandable to not be able to any way... when the game transitions to an indoors location, the outside isn't being rendered anymore...  I imagine it would be difficult to show something in real time that isn't being rendered.

I am sure there was a reason the team compartmentalized indoors and outdoors locations the way they did, and again... it's just not that big a chore to step outside to have a look at the weather.   

I just don't see any good reason to make this kind of a change to the game.  We already have audio cues that give us all the indications we really need.

Edited August 11, 2019 by ManicManiac
Edited for clarity

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

@XAlaskan_420X,
In both cases, I still think it's just not that big a chore to go outside and assess the situation.  I just don't think that adding this change would be worth the work, resources, and time when compared to the very small convenience it would add.  As I mentioned in another thread (that has since been deleted by the OP), the other posts similar to this it seems like folks are basically requesting a convenience, while in other threads clamoring for the game to be "more challenging;" these are incongruent ideas.   (i.e. We want it challenging... but we also want it convenient )

There are already a few structures where you can look out the windows, and perhaps the team will add more structures like these going forward.  I would wager that it would just not be practical to overhaul entire regions just so we can look out a window.  Besides, it's understandable to not be able to any way... when the game transitions to an indoors location, the outside isn't being rendered anymore...  I imagine it would be difficult to show something in real time that isn't being rendered.

I am sure there was a reason the team compartmentalized indoors and outdoors locations the way they did, and again... it's just not that big a chore to step outside to have a look at the weather.   

I just don't see any good reason to make this kind of a change to the game.  We already have audio cues that give us all the indications we really need.

There are actually numerous areas that are considered indoors where you can see what the weather is like, since the back portion of many of the open caves in the game are considered indoor areas.  That is, you can cure hides and saplings in those locations.   Of course, like everything in this game, there is a tradeoff in that you will likely need to light a fire in order to sleep safely in those locations.

[ManicManiac]

4 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

There are actually numerous areas that are considered indoors where you can see what the weather is like

And I referred to them in my post, so I'm not sure what you are trying to correct me on...   

Edited August 12, 2019 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

1 minute ago, ManicManiac said:

And I referred to them in my post, so I'm not sure what you are trying to correct me about...   

Sorry, I must have missed it while reading.  I'm have a migraine coming on (and didn't really realize it until I had finished posting.  My vision is going kind of wonky.  Sorry... signing out now to take some medication.

[ManicManiac]

@UpUpAway95,
Not a problem

I do hope you feel better though. 

[XAlaskan_420X]

5 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

@XAlaskan_420X,
In both cases, I still think it's just not that big a chore to go outside and assess the situation.  I just don't think that adding this change would be worth the work, resources, and time when compared to the very small convenience it would add.  As I mentioned in another thread (that has since been deleted by the OP), the other posts similar to this it seems like folks are basically requesting a convenience, while in other threads clamoring for the game to be "more challenging;" these are incongruent ideas.   (i.e. We want it challenging... but we also want it convenient )

There are already a few structures where you can look out the windows, and perhaps the team will add more structures like these going forward.  I would wager that it would just not be practical to overhaul entire regions just so we can look out a window.  Besides, it's understandable to not be able to any way... when the game transitions to an indoors location, the outside isn't being rendered anymore...  I imagine it would be difficult to show something in real time that isn't being rendered.

I am sure there was a reason the team compartmentalized indoors and outdoors locations the way they did, and again... it's just not that big a chore to step outside to have a look at the weather.   

I just don't see any good reason to make this kind of a change to the game.  We already have audio cues that give us all the indications we really need.

I am all for more challenges. But I don't think that having to go outside to check to see if it's foggy really adds any challenge. That goes for inconveniences in general - they don't always equate to more challenge. 
I was playing yesterday and noticed that the fire gives you the temperature of the fire and burn time. Clicking on windows to get the visibility state, seems to me, the same in principle as far as mechanics go. Since it is a small feature that shares either same or similar mechanics as something else already in the game, to me (a non-programmer) a small change means small development.
I think the more important question here is: Is the state of the outdoor weather tracked from indoors (tracked accurately)? I think that blizzards are tracked, but what about casual weather? Because if casual weather is not tracked from indoors, then that means that the weather outside, to a degree, is in a superstate - like quantum mechanics and the cat in the box scenario. Like where the weather doesn't have a specific state until you go outside. This would mean that weather readings from windows couldn't be reliable.
As for the transparent windows that you can look out of - I already know that this is not possible because the indoors of various houses act as it's own world where the outdoors is no longer rendered. Mroz helped me to figure that out.

Some people who don't want window weather reading to be worked on in the present stage of the game say that it is because development time spent on these slight conveniences can distract from time spent in developing the next episode or development on the game in general. That sounds reasonable to me.  But this also begs the question. If all of the episodes were finished and there was not much other stuff to focus time on, would you think that adding window reading to the game would be good at that point? If the concern is that we should encourage focus on episode 3 or other "more needed" features or content first, I could get on board with that. But I think that little features like window weather reading could add a nice final touch IMO.
 

Edited August 12, 2019 by XAlaskan_420X
typos and elaboration

[UpUpAway95]

16 hours ago, XAlaskan_420X said:

I am all for more challenges. But I don't think that having to go outside to check to see if it's foggy really adds any challenge. That goes for inconveniences in general - they don't always equate to more challenge. 
I was playing yesterday and noticed that the fire gives you the temperature of the fire and burn time. Clicking on windows to get the visibility state, seems to me, the same in principle as far as mechanics go. Since it is a small feature that shares either same or similar mechanics as something else already in the game, to me (a non-programmer) a small change means small development.
I think the more important question here is: Is the state of the outdoor weather tracked from indoors (tracked accurately)? I think that blizzards are tracked, but what about casual weather? Because if casual weather is not tracked from indoors, then that means that the weather outside, to a degree, is in a superstate - like quantum mechanics and the cat in the box scenario. Like where the weather doesn't have a specific state until you go outside. This would mean that weather readings from windows couldn't be reliable.
As for the transparent windows that you can look out of - I already know that this is not possible because the indoors of various houses act as it's own world where the outdoors is no longer rendered. Mroz helped me to figure that out.

Some people who don't want window weather reading to be worked on in the present stage of the game say that it is because development time spent on these slight conveniences can distract from time spent in developing the next episode or development on the game in general. That sounds reasonable to me.  But this also begs the question. If all of the episodes were finished and there was not much other stuff to focus time on, would you think that adding window reading to the game would be good at that point? If the concern is that we should encourage focus on episode 3 or other "more needed" features or content first, I could get on board with that. But I think that little features like window weather reading could add a nice final touch IMO.
 

Clicking on a window to get a weather report just really seems immersion breaking.  Getting the duration and temperature of the fire doesn't seem that way because really we're interacting with it in order to decide weather or not to add fuel.  It's really just part of that interface.  Perhaps though theree could be a way to do this... finding a rare item - a window mounted barometer (which is something I have installed at home IRL).  We could then place it on the window sills and be able to get a reading from it (which is not exactly how mine works since it is mounted on the outside of the window, but perhaps that would be an acceptable departure from reality).

I do think that a stumbling block may well be that the casual weather is really not generated until you step outside.  I have had cases where I exited one to one type of weather and before I could arange a save, I got interrupted and had to quit the game... meaning the next time I played I was starting at the save point before going outside.  When I went outside the second time, the weather was different than the previous time.  It would be worth running some deliberate tests to see whether this occasion was an aberration or the norm for the game.  Depending on results, it could show us whether the weather is generated while we are indoors or is generated only as we leave the building.

[NUFFMAN]

On 8/12/2019 at 5:54 AM, XAlaskan_420X said:

I am all for more challenges. But I don't think that having to go outside to check to see if it's foggy really adds any challenge. That goes for inconveniences in general - they don't always equate to more challenge. 
I was playing yesterday and noticed that the fire gives you the temperature of the fire and burn time. Clicking on windows to get the visibility state, seems to me, the same in principle as far as mechanics go. Since it is a small feature that shares either same or similar mechanics as something else already in the game, to me (a non-programmer) a small change means small development.
I think the more important question here is: Is the state of the outdoor weather tracked from indoors (tracked accurately)? I think that blizzards are tracked, but what about casual weather? Because if casual weather is not tracked from indoors, then that means that the weather outside, to a degree, is in a superstate - like quantum mechanics and the cat in the box scenario. Like where the weather doesn't have a specific state until you go outside. This would mean that weather readings from windows couldn't be reliable.
As for the transparent windows that you can look out of - I already know that this is not possible because the indoors of various houses act as it's own world where the outdoors is no longer rendered. Mroz helped me to figure that out.

Some people who don't want window weather reading to be worked on in the present stage of the game say that it is because development time spent on these slight conveniences can distract from time spent in developing the next episode or development on the game in general. That sounds reasonable to me.  But this also begs the question. If all of the episodes were finished and there was not much other stuff to focus time on, would you think that adding window reading to the game would be good at that point? If the concern is that we should encourage focus on episode 3 or other "more needed" features or content first, I could get on board with that. But I think that little features like window weather reading could add a nice final touch IMO.
 

👍 Having the protagonist talk to themselves/us to give their thoughts on the weather when inside would work for me, and not feel like you were breaking away from the immersion IMO

[ManicManiac]

@NUFFMAN, as has been discussed at great length previously, we already have audio cues.  We just need to pay attention to them. 

[ManicManiac]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 9:24 AM, XAlaskan_420X said:

I am all for more challenges. But I don't think that having to go outside to check to see if it's foggy really adds any challenge. That goes for inconveniences in general - they don't always equate to more challenge. 

I'll echo what I said earlier:

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 3:41 AM, ManicManiac said:

I still think it's just not that big a chore to go outside and assess the situation.  I just don't think that adding this change would be worth the work, resources, and time when compared to the very small convenience it would add.  As I mentioned in another thread (that has since been deleted by the OP), the other posts similar to this it seems like folks are basically requesting a convenience, while in other threads clamoring for the game to be "more challenging;" these are incongruent ideas.   (i.e. We want it challenging... but we also want it convenient )