Blue flares...

[ManicManiac]

5 hours ago, Serenity said:

Which is fancy way of saying different metal salts. For example strontium burns red, barium green, and copper green or blue. So making a blue flare is really simple. It's just not necessary for most situations and red has been long established as an emergency signal

That's why I went on to mention in my previous post:

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 4:00 AM, ManicManiac said:

blue flares are fundamentally the same as red flares... just with a modified chemistry to produce a different color...

It was in the same section you originally quoted  

Edited July 15, 2019 by ManicManiac

[Admin]

Post deleted. Please stay on topic.

[ajb1978]

Dang it, that website won't ship outside the EU...I really wanted to buy some blue flares...

There's a merch idea for the Hinterland store.  Blue flares.

[MarrowStone]

The color blue is perceptibly more harsh and glaring than red and hinders night vision. I know that deer have trouble seeing red light but can see blues and violets just fine. If wolves are similar then this means a blue flare/white light could possibly be more disruptive to them since it would mess with their nightvision and be a visible color. 

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purkinje_effect

Also, something ive noticed, if you have a red light and a blue light, try reading a book in the dark with each one, the letters are much more crisp when under the red light. The blue light makes the letters look fuzzy. 

[ManicManiac]

10 hours ago, FrozenCorpse said:

danger of electrocution would have a Pavlovian effect on wildlife

Sure, but only if they have been shocked before... that's how the "Pavlovian effect" works (also known as conditioned response).
How many wolves do we suppose have been electrocuted and survived to make that association?  

Edited July 16, 2019 by ManicManiac

[SentientHam]

On 7/16/2019 at 1:01 PM, ManicManiac said:

Sure, but only if they have been shocked before... that's how the "Pavlovian effect" works (also known as conditioned response).
How many wolves do we suppose have been electrocuted and survived to make that association?  

Well I mean the aurora causes any downed power lines to spark. It's not unreasonable that a wolf could step in the wrong area and end up spooked, but not dead. We all know fluffy left the dam due to those power lines.

[ManicManiac]

10 minutes ago, SentientHam said:

Well I mean the aurora causes any downed power lines to spark. It's not unreasonable that a wolf could step in the wrong area and end up spooked, but not dead. We all know fluffy left the dam due to those power lines.

Still though, pavlovian response is a process of repeated conditioning... I'm not saying a handful have never come across this.  I'm just saying not enough of them would have been exposed to it repeatedly enough to become a universal autonomic fear response to "blue light" for the entire species in this context - that's all I was trying to convey  

Edited July 21, 2019 by ManicManiac

[ThePancakeLady]

I can't help but wonder f the blue flares were in any way inspired by the misnomer "blue light" , given to the early pyrotechnic signals. A little digging, trying to find actual blue flares led me to Wikipedia (I know... no way to know exactly how accurate the info is...): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_light_(pyrotechnic_signal) . The Blue Lantern myth section had the most compelling information, that made me wonder if it was possibly an inspiration for creating the new colored flares in the game. The blue coloration may be "unrealistic", but it sure is much prettier, and more dramatic than a blaringly white flare would be, and possibly more easy to show in the game, which has a ton of white-whitish backgrounds (lots of snow) might be. The light is mostly blinding whie in the screenshot, with blue around the edges, and the burning debris or sparks coming off the sides.

 

I think arguing about the IRL "realism" or lack thereof, in a fictional, and decidedly not true-to-life video game is a bit silly. I think it looks good in the screenshot, and gives a wonderful, cold blue cast to the landscape, that is rather deliciously creepy. As far as canids responding differently to red light or blue light... I may test an LED flashlight that I have colored lenses for, blue, red, yellow and green, that are to be used for signalling, map reading, tracking and hunting, on my poor service dog and pet, Tri. I may or may not report back here with results. I somehow doubt she will react differently to the colors, and just react to having a really bright light shined at her or into her eyes. And I'll get to test her for reaction to unexpected light sources in her face, something that might be good to know before I am out with her, depending on her not to freak out while we are walking. We'll see, If tri does not go berserk and attack me when I shine a red light and then a blue light at her, I might report back. I might not. All depends on whether I remember to, lol.

[ManicManiac]

4 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

I think arguing about the IRL "realism" or lack thereof, in a fictional, and decidedly not true-to-life video game is a bit silly.

 I very much agree, whether it's a "real thing" or not isn't really an important conversation.

My only serious thoughts about it, were the hopes that it's more than just added specifically as a timber wolf repellant... (which I have a feeling it likely will be) and I was more just curious what the rationale would be behind something that.  What would really surprise me is if it were just simply a new variety of flare with no "special" properties or application.  That would be delightful in my opinion  

[StrayCat]

I just hope they work exactly the same as red flares, only with a different color for diversity. Or else, that they have a small bonus, like a longer duration, or a slighlty better chance to repel wolves (all wolves), or a wider wolf repellant area. Please, please, nothing arbitrary or without rational explanation, like "blue flares scare timberwolves, but red flares don't".

[ThePancakeLady]

4 hours ago, FrozenCorpse said:

Considering that canines can see both red and blue, but only red & blue (and combinations thereof)

Not to nitpick, but I am going to nitpick here... but canids do not see reds, or shades of reds. They see shades of blues, yellows. and greys. Their vision is thought to be similar to the vision of a human who has Deuteranopia. It's not that they don't "see" red, they just don't see it as red. 

(Source: https://www.petmd.com/dog/general-health/what-colors-do-dogs-see )

So, the color>food>blood>meat association you allude to would seem to be incorrect. They detect the scent of food, their sense of smell id far superior to ours. They don;t recognize a steak because it is red,  they recognize it because it smells like steak.

4 hours ago, FrozenCorpse said:

So while wolves might initially be attracted to the red color due to it's association with blood and food, they would be repelled by the similarity to fire and difficulty they encountered looking at or near it.

The reaction to fire would also not be likely to be due to the red and orange color, but due to the sensation of heat given off, and the smell of the fire, which would be learned over generations as a "bad thing", a case of so-called "genetic memory" or even shared information, passed from animal to animal. Get burned on a fire or hot embers once, live to tell the pack about it, how it looked, felt and smelled.

I am not sure how seeing blue light from a flare is supposed to make these flares more of a deterrent. I would think the brightness and smell of the flare burning would be more the thing that causes them to react to them. But... it's a game. It makes for an interesting choice. I suspect the blue flares (I am hoping, at least), will be useful for more than Timber wolf deterrents. Blue light (think police flashlights with blue tinted lens caps on them) are supposed to make blood and bodily fluid more visible, when they may be invisible or almost invisible to the naked eye. So... helpful for tracking blood trails at night? And blue light is the only color of light known to cut through fog efficiently. So... better visibility during fog conditions?

[ThePancakeLady]

 

41 minutes ago, FrozenCorpse said:

I was using this page as my source which states that their eyes have red and blue receptors.

"There is no conclusive evidence regarding the color vision abilities of Wolves, however. It is my personal belief that Wolves can see all of the colors, but only take an interest in those that might benefit them in some way."

 

That's a lot of guessing, and the author's personal beliefs, and very little proof that wolves differ form other canids in such a significant way.

Edited July 25, 2019 by ThePancakeLady
Added images from 2 sources

[ThePancakeLady]

@FrozenCorpse, please read what I wrote before again... 

6 hours ago, ThePancakeLady said:

It's not that they don't "see" red, they just don't see it as red.

They see it as shades of yellows.

6 hours ago, ThePancakeLady said:

So, the color>food>blood>meat association you allude to would seem to be incorrect. They detect the scent of food, their sense of smell id far superior to ours. They don;t recognize a steak because it is red,  they recognize it because it smells like steak.

(Pardon my typos there, I didn't see them before) You and the author of the page you first linked to seem to be giving wolves credit for human level intelligence and logical associations... red = food. So wolves should attack you more if you are wearing red, and less if you aren't because you look like food, ior don't? Or they should be attacking the heck out of every red car in the game because, well... it's red, so it looks like food? The study the page author mentioned with colored liquids... I have not been able to find it, after an extensive search online. And she did not provide a link, to see who did that study, what methods were used, and give us an idea of how credible it is. Smell is how they are most likely to identify food... not by color. A wild dog who has never seen a hot dog will most likely still eat it, not because it recognizes it as food due to color or shape, but because it can smell the meats in it. The same wild dog (or wolf or pet dog) may refuse to eat the same hot dog if you inject it with medication, because they can smell the medication as well, and do not know if it is safe to eat, or may be made wary by the foreign "chemical" smell. (Ever tried to give a dog a pill wrapped in a piece of meat or cheese, that they would normally eat, but refuse when the pill is inside?)

I am not going to argue it with you, but you seem to want to give wolves human levels of intelligence and logical thinking or association. They are smart, but they are not associating red with food, or they would try to eat every unlit flare they come across, (and every red car, and every set of red mittens, and every Quality Tool box, and every wool scarf). Red flare looks like a big sausage, right? But they don't, because it does not smell like blood or food. And they will attack a brown-grey rabbit, which has no red color to make it look like food or blood, but because it smells like rabbit, which is food for them. 

Back to blue flares...

7 hours ago, ThePancakeLady said:

I am not sure how seeing blue light from a flare is supposed to make these flares more of a deterrent. I would think the brightness and smell of the flare burning would be more the thing that causes them to react to them. But... it's a game. It makes for an interesting choice. I suspect the blue flares (I am hoping, at least), will be useful for more than Timber wolf deterrents. Blue light (think police flashlights with blue tinted lens caps on them) are supposed to make blood and bodily fluid more visible, when they may be invisible or almost invisible to the naked eye. So... helpful for tracking blood trails at night? And blue light is the only color of light known to cut through fog efficiently. So... better visibility during fog conditions?