FrozenCorpse

As per my previous post regarding the addition of sub-forum(s)

Adding sub-forum(s) to General Discussion - Members preferences  

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While I do frequently post to various forums on the web, and read many more, I see myself often becoming more and more frustrated by some of the content that I read. Not so much "what" is being "said", but "how" it is being "said".  There is an anonymity to posting on forums that tends to result in something less than "decorous behavior":  On behalf of newcomers and forum regulars alike.  Between the three main forums that I routinely check for TLD content, the Hinterland forum is by far the least offensive.  Be that as it may, I still have had my moments here.

I do realize that those of a more "youthful disposition" are often inclined towards a more "spirited discourse" and nowhere in the forum rules is it stated "There shall be no shenanigans whatsoever.".  Sometimes, you put your tongue in your cheek and you give someone a playful jab in the ribs. I get that. I have a sense of humor. For the love of Pete, people do need have some thickness to their skin or every tiny disagreement / misunderstanding will draw blood. I am accepting of the occasional "casually sassy remark" being made even if it's not between familiars.  That's not what I'm taking issue with here.

My issue:  People come onto the forum and dump a toxic, vindictive post venting their frustrations and displeasure with the game design or developer choices then either run, or lurk in the shadows while others members prod that steamy cow chip; tossing it back and forth like some hot potato.  Then, some of what's been complained about will resonate with similar issues others might have taken issue with in the past and it turns into something not unlike the mind-numbing screech of feedback from a PA speaker when a mic is being held too close to a floor monitor.  If I hear too much static on a radio station, I turn the channel.  If I hear loud screeching feedback coming out of a speaker.. if I can't reposition the mic or turn the gain down, I'll step out of the room.  There's an analogy in there somewhere.

My suggestion:  I'd like to see another sub-forum (or maybe two) added to "General Discussions" forum.  If it were just one, then it could be called "Rants and Raves" just like on Craigslist. If it were to be two sub-forums, one could be something like, "The Complaint Department", and the other, "The Compliment Department".  I favor the latter.  This way, members could vent all that frustration in a place where the design / development staff could respond at their convenience (or not, depending on the tone that was taken).  Also, with a compliment sub-forum, when something really seems to be working well, has been resolved in a way that players really like or they simply want to express their gratitude & appreciation for an aspect of the game they really like, they'll have a venue specifically designated for them to do so.  I know they can now.. it's just that it kind of all gets tossed together under a "General" heading, and I'm thinking it might be a bit more efficient if it were expanded.

So I'll be following this up directly with a poll.. also in the discussions forum.  Three choices, Leave it the way it is, Rants and Raves, or Complaint and Compliment Departments (sub-forums).
Thanks for your time.

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Moved to a non-game specific forum. 

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I chose the third option, but would suggest rather than a "Complaint Department" and "Compliment Department," or the more "dramatic Rants and Raves" titles, a simple "Player Feedback" section. For just that... feedback, both negative and positive. Just pure feedback. Not containing any feature requests or change requests (Wish List), Questions to Raph and/or the devs (Milton Mailbag), questions to the community about strategies or preferred methods when playing the game as it is (General Discussions/Wintermute/Survival Stories/How To Play). Just... feedback about likes and dislikes. Things that don't really fit in anywhere else, though General Discussions is the catch-all subforum already. 

Keeping in mind that Hinterland does have a "Contact Us" form on the actual Hinterland website, where people can send feedback, privately, directly to the studio, so it does not attract attention from the general public. You have an interesting idea, worth considering, just not sure it would siphon off any of the "less desirable" behavior, or encourage more of it.

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Posted (edited)

Seems to me that no mater how you try and structure a system... it's still inhabited by people... and as sad as it is, a large percentage of people are just kind of - Jerks.

 

Edited by ManicManiac

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Merged topics. Moved thread.

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I don't think I can vote right now because I don't know how I feel about this... on the one hand I can understand how the rants can be tiresome to read, but at the same time I don't think I like the idea of this because I feel like it's in a way silencing the opposition. Yea I know they will still be able to post, but it's basically pushing their posts into the corner where hardly anyone will want to go. 

Anyway, I also think a little bit of raving if done in a kind manner can be a good thing... 

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To be clear this is an unofficial poll.

While we're interested to hear about what you think we're not just going to do what the results of this suggest for us to do without doing our own consideration of the pros and cons.

We are also avoiding stating an opinion to avoid giving either option a boost, though obviously as the team professionally charged with running the forums we have both an opinion and some experience in this area.

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Thinking more about a "Feedback Only" subforum...

Wondering if Admin has a way to disable comments in a specific subforum or not. If it is possible, "Feedback Only" (or some other easily recognized title), with comments disabled, so a player could make a post with feedback for the devs, and not need to worry about it becoming a "Feedback" "Here's my feedback on your feedback" "Yeah? Here's my feedback on your feedback on my feedback." "Really? Here's my feedback on your feedback on my feedback on your feedback..." endlessly looping argument. We could, of course, read the topic, but it would be more for giving feedback directly to the devs, rather than having a discussion/argument with the Community-at-large. Perhaps a different option would be to have a toggle for Public Post (viewable by anyone) or Private Post (viewable by Admin and staff only).

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On 6/20/2019 at 12:15 AM, FrozenCorpse said:

If I hear loud screeching feedback coming out of a speaker.. if I can't reposition the mic or turn the gain down, I'll step out of the room.  There's an analogy in there somewhere.

Do you work in professional audio? I was mixing a couple of bands just last night at one of the finer local establishments....

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1 hour ago, stratvox said:

Do you work in professional audio? I was mixing a couple of bands just last night at one of the finer local establishments....

I'm something of a "Jerk of all Trades":  Retired this past February.  I have enough experience in a broad range of disciplines to get myself in trouble in all of them.

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1 hour ago, stratvox said:

Do you work in professional audio? I was mixing a couple of bands just last night at one of the finer local establishments....

Not sure what that has to do with what the OP said. Not sure how to take your comment, if it was meant seriously, or meant in  jest.

I believe he was referring to leaving an establishment (or forums) if the painful, annoying noise becomes too loud. The analogy they referred to. Which I get. Once I have decided that the level of annoying, painful or toxic "noise" is too much to deal with any longer, on a forum of any kind, or social media, or blogging site, or real world establishment... I am likely to leave, stop giving positive feedback for it, or leaving positive reviews if reviews are a "feature". I am likely to leave, and may or may not ever go back. And if my feelings toward that place have been soured enough, I may be more likely to try to discourage others from going there too. 

Our levels of acceptable "noise" will vary. Some people may not post or visit to read social media, or a forum, or a blog, or visit a local establishment to hear a band, or see a show, or listen to a comedian, or participate in a "Community" due to the level of noise that they find too toxic or annoying, or that they feel like they are going to be trolled or attacked if they leave their feedback or opinions on.

It's up to Hinterland if they feel that they want to add new subforums here. But I do feel the analogy the OP made is a reasonable one, and the thoughts about providing a "safer place" for those folks who only want to give the devs feedback, without inciting a "riot" of noise and argument is a valid discussion topic as well.

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3 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Not sure how to take your comment, if it was meant seriously, or meant in  jest.

Pretty sure Stratvox was simply acknowledging my anology since he has a relevant background and grokked my meaning.  A Strat is a guitar, and Vox made something similar called the Soundcaster (as well as many very popular amplifiers and effects pedals). :)

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37 minutes ago, FrozenCorpse said:

Pretty sure Stratvox was simply acknowledging my anology since he has a relevant background and grokked my meaning.  A Strat is a guitar, and Vox made something similar called the Soundcaster (as well as many very popular amplifiers and effects pedals). :)

And apologies for being the one making the "noise" in the thread. Perhaps a more pointed example of what I was speaking out against. Perhaps more reason a more private "safe space" for folks to give feedback is worthy of consideration. I try to set a good example. Sometimes, like here, I fail, miserably. Apologies, again.

Please throw Pancakes at me, as punishment? (Kidding) (Wait... not kidding.)

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Wow, it's been a long while since I saw a reference to "Stranger in a Strange Land" :) 

57 minutes ago, FrozenCorpse said:

...and grokked my meaning.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ThePancakeLady said:

And apologies for being the one making the "noise" in the thread. Perhaps a more pointed example of what I was speaking out against. Perhaps more reason a more private "safe space" for folks to give feedback is worthy of consideration. I try to set a good example. Sometimes, like here, I fail, miserably. Apologies, again.

Please throw Pancakes at me, as punishment? (Kidding) (Wait... not kidding.)

I have appreciated your input on the matter.  I clammed up as soon as it became apparent that most people do not share my sentiment.  Certainly not the first time that's happened, and I hope, not the last...  But, yeah... not a popular topic... Some people like spicy food, and some like spicy forum exchanges.  I'm more of a mac 'n cheese kinda guy (but I'll certainly wolf down a stack of flapjacks with butter and maple syrup if people are gonna start throwin' things...).  :)

Edited by FrozenCorpse
miss speling

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2 hours ago, FrozenCorpse said:

Pretty sure Stratvox was simply acknowledging my anology since he has a relevant background and grokked my meaning.  A Strat is a guitar, and Vox made something similar called the Soundcaster (as well as many very popular amplifiers and effects pedals).

In my particular case the Vox refers to my main stage amp, the AC15HTV. If you play guitar and you see one go by in your local used market BUY IT! it's an amazing guitar amp.

The strat of course is my main guitar; it's a 79 I bought in 84.

Last night the mixer was an Allen & Heath Qu 24. I had some issues with ringing feedback after adjusting the monitors based on the musician's preferences before the second set, but pulling ~200Hz down a few dB in their monitors made it go away. While I've played guitar for around 35 years, I've only been doing sound for around ten; I'm not quite as good at picking the frequencies out as I'd like to be.

The room was so live that I eventually just killed the reverb on the board as totally piling mud on top of a very reverberant room. Really cleaned it up.

Blah blah blah :)

On the original topic, I personally find using the bug reporting system at http://hinterlandgames.com/support to be a much better way of addressing issues in the game. In fact, one of the items I reported a ways back (about the z-order of head wear on the paper doll of the survivor; ear wrap should be over balaclava, but under toques and definitely under the rabbit hat) got fixed in the latest update, which made me happy. When I find bad textures etc I try very hard to remember to take a debug screenshot and report it with a brief description at the site I mentioned above. Doing that might actually get it fixed someday, while whinging doesn't do anything.

In the immortal words of Joey "Shithead" Keithley: "Talk - Action = 0"

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