Recommended Posts

On topic: I personally can understand the hate the new system is getting if you take just a shallow look at the issue, and I do agree that it is getting indeed a bit funky. But then again, and I would like for people to think about this from a "game creators perspective", the new system is much more responsive and transparent and offsets that it better communicates the risk of a sprain with a higher cost attached if you fail to act accordingly. It's pretty much as simple as that.

I see that treating several localized injuries with individual doses of broadband painkillers feels unintuitive, but then again if that wouldn't be the case it would incentivize the player to a mindset along the lines "now that I got one sprain I gotta break 'em all! ... and heal 4 for the price of one" meaning that subsequent failures to comply would be less severe when in fact they should if anything be more severe. Plus don't forget that you can still sleep all of those problems off in just 4 hours, no matter how many limbs you ruin.

All in all I think the devs would seriously appreciate if anyone here had the magic bullet how to make this fair, fun AND intuitive while not gimping the mechnic to a meaningless roadbump. I just know I don't have this magic solution, and considering how much talk has gotten into sprains over the past few years (!) I don't think anyone has it.

About the case that you can accidentaly treat your sprained wrist with disinfectant when you actually meant to put it on your neck because you had a wolf nagging on it ... yeah I get that. That's like nobody would eat raw meat by accident when all he wanted was to put it on a cooker. This was identified ad excessum as a problem after Vigilant Flame came out, and that's how we got that little popup if one tries to munch on a raw bear. In short: in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to treat a condition with something that doesn't work by accident. While I must admit that this hasn't happen to me in like... forever... I get that this is frustrating. And while I see that "quality of life" improvements are something you can clearly do more harm than good (especially in a survival game) there is also that kind of frustration that's so not fun it actually ruins the game for you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

I admit I was more than little bit disappointed when the team added that "Are you sure you want to do this?" prompt for raw meat.

I'm with you on this one.

I like how the game is designed in such way that forces you to take your time and think about what you are going to do, everywhere, every time.

The game is clearly not tailored on the same canvas of mass market big FPS production. If you keep a careless play style, counting on the game mechanism to protect you from your own carelessness, you'll have trouble. I mean, I understand that you can eat raw meat once, twice by accident. I did it myself. But how could you keep eating raw meat again and again? It's pure carelessness to me.

The Long Dark is all about learning from your mistakes, the raw meat eating confirmation is somewhat against this intention and I can't help thinking that it doesn't have it place.

Edited by Nogen
Add details.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 9:56 AM, ManicManiac said:

@galenwolfe,
I think that for those who get to know the game can cope pretty well.  It's possible that this game isn't right for you.  Part of the flavor of this game is the struggle, the fight for survival.  That includes having to manage your resources, dealing with injuries and illness, and all those things you seem to take issue with.  I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but if you honestly don't enjoy the game... perhaps you can find one that is a better fit for you and closer to the type of experience you are looking for.

Also, consider how much you've played vs how much you paid... if anyone has played for any significant amount of time it will have only cost pennies per hour.  There are plenty of games with virtually no replayability that only offer many 5-10 hours of gameplay that cost upwards of $60 or more... I see there are people with literally thousands of hours on The Long Dark.  I think we have been getting much more than our money's worth from this wonderful game.  :) 

whats your point.... this game is actively in development right?  You think anybody that offers a comment on what they think could improve gameplay are completely out of line. If your not being inflammatory why am I inflamed go back a few months read your comments just make a thread called... "I love this game just as it is .. its so awesome! Anyone thinking otherwise should just shut up and play like I say too." 

I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but theres really no need for most your comments. They are trying to help and maybe offer something valuable to the development  of TLD I don't think Hinterlands goal is to get people to settle with it. I could be wrong I don't remember ever seeing you comment on expanding on a idea or clarification on what they would think could be a better way of doing something.

I must say your argument that they got more than 5-10 hours of gameplay for their buck more than makes up for shortcomings ( OMG the game may actually have a few. ) Maybe your just trolling and I just took the bait.

If its ok with you if I suggest a water management system I don't know where I get all these plastic bottles but maybe I should need to find containers or craft a rabbit flask or something I like immersion and seems easy thing to do and makes complete sense .. I would also like a long time goal of surviving to be focus any rational person wouldn't just run around using everything up till its Easter Island. Doubt one person could anyway I realize this would be extensive and perhaps better for a The Long Lasting Long Dark. I really love the concept of this game and would love to see it evolve into greatness use TLD as a stepping stone or make a DLC  like "TLD Seasons" and many others for those of us who think it could improved and those who don't can just keep it real.

I would think that producing revenue is a issue and I'd be happy to pay for a well constructed DLC based on players ideas and advise. But a rushed POS would be uncalled for. I have been subject to this There are plenty of games with virtually no replayability that only offer many 5-10 hours of gameplay that cost upwards of $60 or more... so please no more … polishing is understandable ..... some ideas...

TLD Critters " AI so improved they may start judgement day" 

TLD Crafters Edition " Learn to craft thing like greenhouses, how to use car engines in new ways ect"

TLD Seasons " That meat isnt going to do so well in spring as well as many other problems they bring"

TLD Drone Edition " trade in your rifle for a fully functional strike drone, that bear better learn some new tricks"  ok maybe not that one

anyway that's my 2 cents … thanks if your reading this still and feel free to comment or build on it, im sure many think the same way but im just a human so could be completely wrong 

edit* 

also wanted to add that the whole eating raw food while trying to cook it wasn't like People were doing it cuz they are morons it was due to design wasn't because they forgot or did something wrong id hate it if game was about pressing buttons in correct order or do something so stupid it kills you only way someone would eat raw meat is if they had no other choice it would be a rational decision and not a accident

Edited by Kissodeath
adding stuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2019 at 8:43 AM, jeffpeng said:

About the case that you can accidentaly treat your sprained wrist with disinfectant when you actually meant to put it on your neck because you had a wolf nagging on it ... yeah I get that. That's like nobody would eat raw meat by accident when all he wanted was to put it on a cooker. This was identified ad excessum as a problem after Vigilant Flame came out, and that's how we got that little popup if one tries to munch on a raw bear. In short: in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to treat a condition with something that doesn't work by accident. While I must admit that this hasn't happen to me in like... forever... I get that this is frustrating. And while I see that "quality of life" improvements are something you can clearly do more harm than good (especially in a survival game) there is also that kind of frustration that's so not fun it actually ruins the game for you.

I do agree that you don't just accidentally eat raw meat. But in the case of first aid situations, I do believe the current system has merit.

I remember when the first aid system was first overhauled, I wasted a few uses of peroxide, first due to my unfamiliarity with the new system and later due to carelessness. I was annoyed one time after one of those incidents, I thought, "You're going to apply it on the wound anyway. How could it possibly be wasted?" Then I was reminded of a time when I knocked over a bottle of povidone-iodine (Betadine) as I was rushing to bandage a wound I had because I needed to be somewhere. Cleaning that up wasn't hard but it did use up more time than it would have if I'd just slowed down for a minute.

So now I make sure to never rush when I'm applying first aid in game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@Kissodeath:
:D You are not qualified to tell me what I think... and I'm not interested in your assumptions.
The conclusions you draw about my intentions are just flat out wrong.

What's my point, you ask?  Exactly what I wrote. :)

If you don't agree with that, that's your right, but there is no need for you to get snarky with me about it.  You also seem to have misunderstood a lot of what I wrote... but I can't control that.  As for why you are triggered... I can't control that either.  You chose to get upset over something that wasn't even directed to you. :D

You seem like you are upset just for the sake of being upset... there is no talking to someone like that.  So please don't respond to this message any further, because if you do... I'm just going to ignore it.  I love a good conversation, but it seems like all you want to do is fight... and I'm not interested in that.

All your anger seems woefully misplaced.  I was done with this conversation two days ago.  You may direct your snide comments someplace else.

I hope you are feeling better, and that you have a pleasant day.

Edited by ManicManiac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few points:

  • Please find a way to disagree with one and another on topics of taste while remaining polite. 
    • Nobody is "right" about matters of taste, just correct in describing what they prefer.
  • Refrain from telling people not to respond to you, this is an internet discussion forum if you post here you're likely to get people responding to you
    • If two people clearly can not respond to each other without bickering then forum staff will tell them not to respond to one and another

If you're not getting use out of this thread then don't respond. However, for now, we're going to leave it open but it is veering into becoming an argument rather than a discussion. If it continues down that path we'll close it up.

Thanks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, for me, the current system makes sense. As was said earlier... yes you can "waste" meds by screwing it up, but let's take a look at how humans operate under severe stress for a moment. So you've just had a wolf struggle, terminating when you jammed your hunting knife into its neck and it ran off whimpering. It's dark, the weather sucks, and you're a long way from home. It's entirely reasonable that the avatar could make mistakes while doing their first aid on themselves... but how to model that? Random occurrence of a mistake that wastes it, or put it on the player to follow the right procedures? Putting it on the player absolutely makes the most sense, and leaving room for the player to make a mistake and waste resources also makes the most sense because that can go down that way in real life.

It's similar to the people that want to be able to walk up to a pile of sticks and pick them all up in one shot through some kind of automagic bundling facility. Part of the reason they don't have that is because one of the most precious resources in the game is time... and picking up a pile of forty sticks effectively should take time. The interface ensures that time gets taken by making you double click to get each stick in your inventory. Any other large pile of stuff should work the same way; you can't expect to be able to load up ten fir logs in under three seconds, it just doesn't really follow how reality works.

A similar thing I've seen in the forums lately is people complaining about the revolver firing because they're picking up sticks and miss the stick and fire the revolve. Well, if you're gathering wood with a firearm in your hand I think it's reasonable to accept that accidental discharges are possible. Just be glad that they don't have the possibility that your accidental firearm discharge ends up in your leg or something. If you want to fix that? Put the revolver away before picking up that wood.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

We should be able to make mistakes but the OP is right about nonsensical waste - if you take painkillers they kill pain. That can't really go wrong.

And sprains... The system is ok. The indicator helps. And I say that even though I recently walked 2 yards up a steep slope (while fresh and travelling light) and got a sprain. Walked 2 more yards up. A 2nd sprain. Decided to abort. Walked 2 yards back. Sprain 3. Day was a write off. But more often than not, sprains don't happen.

:D

 

 

Edited by Stone
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Stone said:

We should be able to make mistakes but the OP is right about nonsensical waste - if you take painkillers they kill pain. That can't really go wrong.

 

I see it as a gameplay thing... you need to make purposeful decisions to stay alive. If I have a sprained ankle, a bleeding laceration, and a sprained wrist, I have to make a conscious choice which injuries to treat if I only have 2 bandages on me, or 1 dose of painkillers, ect.  So, if the game would "automatically" treat injuries or afflictions, which ones should it prioritize? Would it treat my laceration and my ankle, leaving me unable to equip the only weapon I had on me, if I was carrying the rifle only or the bow and some arrows only? I don't want to feel like I need to start humping around with 10 lbs. of medical supplies, just to go out and gather sticks, or go hunting or fishing, or travel from one base to another in the same region. I like that I have to think about what is most important or beneficial to my character if a situation like I outlined occurs. If the game chose to bandage the wrist and the ankle, I might bleed. I might prefer the ankle just be left, I can sleep it off after I get back to base, and might choose to bandage the laceration and the wrist so i don;t bleed out, and so I can equip a weapon if needed. Or I may decide that the situation needs the laceration bandaged, and the ankle, so I can sprint the heck home to sleep off the wrist sprain. I like that I have to slow down, not have my hands held, and need to think about what I am doing. I may have only 1 cup of Rose hip tea with me. Do I treat a sprain, or a headache, if I have both? I prefer to make that choice, not have the game decide which to treat for me. 

 

TL;DR- I prefer that I choose what to treat or not treat, do or not do, rather than the game choosing for me, arbitrarily. Again,  I don't want to feel like I need to start humping around with 10 lbs. of medical supplies, just to go out and gather sticks, or go hunting or fishing, or travel from one base to another in the same region, because I don't know what injuries or afflictions I may have happen while I am out.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

I see it as a gameplay thing... you need to make purposeful decisions to stay alive.

100% agree with you.  I've always thought that part of the flavor of this game was the importance of careful & deliberate action, and that every action or mistake comes at a cost.

Edited by ManicManiac
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@ThePancakeLady  I was agreeing with the OP specifically on the painkiller point. You do know that if you take pain killers for your sprain that your head ache will feel better too right?  Equally, if all your toes hurt, you really shouldn't take 10 doses of pain killers. I'm pretty sure there's stuff about that on the box. 

😉

 

 

Edited by Stone
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stone said:

@ThePancakeLady  I was agreeing with the OP specifically on the painkiller point. You do know that if you take pain killers for your sprain that your head ache will feel better too right?  Equally, if all your toes hurt, you really shouldn't take 10 doses of pain killers. I'm pretty sure there's stuff about that on the box. 

😉

 

 

Yes, in real life I do get that it works that way, sort of, though 1 dose may not treat my migraine and my arthritis very well. I often need more than a single dose to get relief IRL if I have more than one type of pain or illness, and my pain or illness is more severe. The comment about "all of of your toes hurt" feels a bit over-dramatic to me.

We are playing a game though, one that emphasizes making purposeful and conscious choices. If they change the mechanic for painkillers only, then there will be people who will want to know why it does not work the same way for all medical treatments. Thus, I brought up bandages, which are needed for multiple types of injuries and afflictions, and the same is true for antiseptic, antibiotics, OMLB , reishi tea and rose hip tea. They all treat multiple injuries and afflictions. The game is more "true to life" than many other survival genre games, but it is far from being 100% "realistic". If we have a system put in place, where what type and number of injuries or afflictions we have does not matter, and 1 thing heals them all at once, let's just go back to magical med packs, or HP and Energy pots, that treat everything at once. With floating numbers, health bars and energy bars, like an aRPG has. With no need to worry about avoiding injuries and afflictions, since we can magically heal all with one red potion, and relieve loss of energy (or mana), never needing to sleep, with one blue potion. It's a matter of gameplay choices and consequences that matter to me, and the need to weigh out and prioritize my actions in any given situation.

I am fine with they mechanics the way they are, I prefer having to think about what I doing, and what I am treating, and why I am treating it, even if it does feel a bit too "micro-managy" or frustrating at times. You don't have to agree. It's just my opinion on it. You are free to have yours as well. The devs need to see both, or all, opinions on the mechanics and systems in the game. And they cannot please us all, no matter what they decide to do or not do, to create the experience they envision for their game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/19/2019 at 7:43 PM, jeffpeng said:

That's like nobody would eat raw meat by accident when all he wanted was to put it on a cooker.

Lol I still laugh at that visual.  Like I take the package of ground beef out of the fridge, slice it open, get ready to make burgers, and shovel the whole pound of raw meat into my mouth.  "Dang it, it happened AGAIN!"

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of me would like to see injuries that require multiple items to treat be "intelligent" such that they would pull all the required treatments out of your inventory (if you have them) automatically and fully treat themselves.  The other half of me thinks this really wouldn't be a good idea.  For example, at times it would be nice now if a sprain would just pull both some cloth and painkiller from my inventory and be fully treated again in just a single step; but at other times, I'm wanting to conserve either the cloth or the painkiller and am planning to  just "suffer" through the fogging screen or the limp because I don't have a great supply of the needed items at that moment.

I agree that, at times, sprains are extremely frustrating in their frequency.  There is nothing more infuriating that treating one sprain only to immediately get another and another.  I think they could afford to introduce a "cool down" on the RNG factor that decides this such that if you've just gotten one sprain, you're not actually going to roll the dice on getting another for a few minutes.  Sure, this would be exploitable to an extent, but I think it would prevent a lot of rage towards the game overall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know, I don't really mind sprains anymore.  As a result of the new system and indicators, I find I only really need to carry two bandages and some old man's beard.  Makes my medical kit really light these days.  :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/23/2019 at 4:35 AM, ajb1978 said:

Lol I still laugh at that visual.  Like I take the package of ground beef out of the fridge, slice it open, get ready to make burgers, and shovel the whole pound of raw meat into my mouth.  "Dang it, it happened AGAIN!"

LOL! You know, the world is a strange place. I'm pretty sure someone in the world is experiencing this issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/25/2019 at 6:25 PM, jeffpeng said:

LOL! You know, the world is a strange place. I'm pretty sure someone in the world is experiencing this issue.

    I've been known to eat raw meat. A good beef tartare ( filet Americaine ) with the egg and the little pickles is really nice. I used to sneak raw breakfast sausage as well when I was a kid. Sometimes I'm surprised I'm still alive. Never been tested, but I would wager that I'm carrying toxomplasma Gondi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now