Let's talk difficulty

[TLDFAN]

They should also adjust the sleep mechanic, when you are in the green your sleep ability should be reduced. You should not be able to sleep 10-12 hours after having just slept 10-12 hours.

I agree completely that the eat/sleep cycle needs to be broken, but I'm against making it only impossible by a mechanic as you proposed without giving us something to actually do inbetween. With 3 deer/wolf combos I have ~40kg of meat in my fridge, all my clothes are in good condition and I usually have around 30-40l of water around. So I eat, drink, sleep, rinse repeat until the meat's gone. It adds nothing to the gameplay if I just need to be awake for 6 hours before I can sleep again if there's nothing todo within those 6 hours.

So yes, this needs to be addressed but with more content and not more restrictions

I would have to agree here. The only time I have ever taken advantage of the sleep/eat cycle has been when I've had little to no storage space left and nothing else to do as far as maintaining/repairing.

I also still agree with TLDFAN's original post in the sense that there could be a deepening to the whole wet system, and that the eat/sleep thing needs to be reworked somehow? As a whitewater guide I have a pretty good understanding of cold/cold gear/wet and body effects, and yeah I would have to agree that the current system is a little underwhelming regarding all of that.

For example, wet wool still provides some warmth, where as you're better off naked than having any wet cotton on. Although I guess expectations must also be tempered. I can't really expect the developer to start adding in intricacies of evaporative cooling or what not.

Don't need to go to a meteorologist level of detail in hypothermia dynamics. Wet meter full = soaking wett = bad, Wet meter empty = dry = good. Simple as the other meters. Right now when you are "freezing" due to a full cold meter it for sure doubles your rate of hunger, I think it affects your fatigue as well or maybe that is a function of how much stuff you are carrying. In any event, Hypothermia and exposure is what people die from in the wild, not lack of food, not lack of water sometimes but exposure. Rule of 3s, 3 Weeks without food, 3 days without water, 3 hours without shelter from dangerous temps, and 3 minutes without oxygen.

I would argue the short term effects of hypothermia are more dramatic in terms of fatigue and how fucked you are than starvation. Yes you have a lack of motivation and lack of energy without food intake but you literally get into trouble faster in TLD than real world with starvation. You could go a week without food and only drop some weight but otherwise be fine. Soaking wet real world at 20 above you are dead in 2-3 hours without getting indoors and warming up. For sure getting inside and being by a roaring fire you'll survive but it will slow you down that day and you can only go out again if you have dry clothes.

[ChillPlayer]

Well unless you drop into the Thin Ice (by which the game respawns you) I don't see why you should get wet anywhere in TLD. Snow != wet, especially with Wolf Coat and Deer Boots we are well protected. The only way I see where we could get hypothermia due to being wet is from sweating, which indeed could be dangerous. But this would add a whole new layer of complexity if it should be manageable, which basically would result in constantly having to take cloths off and on when running outside, not sure if this would really improve gameplay experience

So, as long as every water in the game is frozen and you keep your "feels like" over 0 you are golden, no reason to fear hypothermia.

[elloco999]

Falling through the thin ice doesn't result in death anymore:

* Falling Through Ice will now result in clothing getting wet and immediate Freezing state. Wet clothing will Freeze if not dried near a fire.

So that's one way of getting wet. And the only way atm.

But there are other ways you might get wet if they implement it. They could of course add falling through ice in more locations. Maybe they will add some of your water bottles getting broken in a wolf attack. Sweating would be an obvious option. May also limit the amount of running people do. Fishing might have a slight chance of getting you wet (fish splashing wildly while you pull it up?). Then there is the waterfall at the bridge near the railway tunnel to ML, it's spray may make you wet if the wind is blowing. And who knows what other options the devs might add in future updates?

[ChillPlayer]

Yes I agree once the devs implement any of this there should be some consequense for being wet, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to add it to the game in the first place. Sweating and falling into ice I see as a danger to get wet, fishing or spray from a waterfall couldn't soak you so much that you'd have to fear hypothermia, especially with thick crafted clothes. You rather'd have to be completely submerged at least to the waist.

Though getting into freezing state is already quite severe, I'm not sure I want more consequences with one exception: when one falls into the thin ice in CH he should die immediately, don't know why the devs decided to respawn the character. The screen already warns you of thin ice and if someone ignores this, he literally asks to die.

[TLDFAN]

Well unless you drop into the Thin Ice (by which the game respawns you) I don't see why you should get wet anywhere in TLD. Snow != wet, especially with Wolf Coat and Deer Boots we are well protected. The only way I see where we could get hypothermia due to being wet is from sweating, which indeed could be dangerous. But this would add a whole new layer of complexity if it should be manageable, which basically would result in constantly having to take cloths off and on when running outside, not sure if this would really improve gameplay experience

So, as long as every water in the game is frozen and you keep your "feels like" over 0 you are golden, no reason to fear hypothermia.

Sweating, if it rains at 34 degrees or snows at 32 while you are sweating, that can be disastrous. A soggy downpour and then a windy high pressure system blowing in dropping the temperature ten degrees in an hour can be lethal without shelter against that. As it is modeled you don't actually get wet at all. There is no water mechanic in the game, you just get cold. That is similar but not the same. There should be a sweating penalty for all this running. Again realism vs gameplay. I think the devs should modify the walk rate to be faster when you are lighter, but make running a temporary thing you cant maintain. Maybe give us a breath meter too. Once you run out of breath the best you can do is walk at the faster rate. This would make the interactions with the environment and entities more realistic also.

Nobody walks in the game right now anyway, there is no point at present. You burn calories faster but you also move farther, in a game where uncovering as many areas as possible and upping your chances of finding stuff by searching instead of locating things in the woods by observation, it is to your advantage to move as fast as possible.

[TLDFAN]

Falling through the thin ice doesn't result in death anymore:

* Falling Through Ice will now result in clothing getting wet and immediate Freezing state. Wet clothing will Freeze if not dried near a fire.

So that's one way of getting wet. And the only way atm.

But there are other ways you might get wet if they implement it. They could of course add falling through ice in more locations. Maybe they will add some of your water bottles getting broken in a wolf attack. Sweating would be an obvious option. May also limit the amount of running people do. Fishing might have a slight chance of getting you wet (fish splashing wildly while you pull it up?). Then there is the waterfall at the bridge near the railway tunnel to ML, it's spray may make you wet if the wind is blowing. And who knows what other options the devs might add in future updates?

Nothing gets wet, nothing needs to be dried. They don't have a wet meter... While the current mechanic is better than nothing and somewhat effectively penalizes you for falling through the ice, you only instantly freeze. This lowers your condition at a rate that will kill you from full health in about 3 hours or so. You also burn calories at double the rate.

This however while far superior to the instant cheap death of the prior version implementation, isn't nearly as how fucked you'd be real world. You have about 3 game hours to find shelter. At any point in the game you can locate shelter heading in any direction in any weather condition and from 100% you might lose 50% health before you've found a familiar location and can reference shelter. In most cases in under 30 game min, in the worst case, in 90 game minutes.

[TLDFAN]

Yes I agree once the devs implement any of this there should be some consequense for being wet, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to add it to the game in the first place. Sweating and falling into ice I see as a danger to get wet, fishing or spray from a waterfall couldn't soak you so much that you'd have to fear hypothermia, especially with thick crafted clothes. You rather'd have to be completely submerged at least to the waist.

Though getting into freezing state is already quite severe, I'm not sure I want more consequences with one exception: when one falls into the thin ice in CH he should die immediately, don't know why the devs decided to respawn the character. The screen already warns you of thin ice and if someone ignores this, he literally asks to die.

You don't die from getting wet, it is cold water not lava. It sucks and will take your breath away but it is possible to survive, you also if falling into water in a shallow area may not even fall into it waist deep. There are always ways of surviving. Running as fast and hard as you can in the real world generates heat which as your body becomes overheated is responded to by sweating, which with a wind chill cools the body 25 times as fast as dry skin. If your warm meter were real world you'd see it go from blank to full in seconds due to wet skin.

You can only maintain maximum exercise output for a limited time, at most a few hours, probably less than a few hours.

[The_Hawk35]

In cold climates sweating is deadly! You don't want to run or really exert yourself in anyway that will make you sweat.

However when I'm outside in the game even in the best possible clothes the perceived temp is rarely over 10c. Other than consistent running or chopping wood for several hours at that perceived temp you aren't likely to sweat.

[Cosmoline]

I bike year round in Anchorage and I agree sweat is an increasingly important issue when it starts getting lower than around 10 f. I use wicking fabric to help, but the body is constantly at odds between heating up muscles (triggering sweat) and warming up exposed parts. When you stop for awhile you really start to feel it. My worst experience was on a particularly cold day (for Anchorage ) of -15 f. I decided to put on my multi-fabric uber ultimate union suit of long underwear. It worked! Unfortunately I was drenched in sweat after a half hour ride, and if I didn't have shelter to get into I would have been in real trouble as it was already starting to freeze stiff. Some clothes are made for passive riding on a snow machine.

If you examine the traditional garments of the Inuit, Aleut, Alutiiq and others, you'll notice they paid very, very close attention to this issue. They tend to be rather puffy, giving the illusion of "fat" people when the reality is very different. The puffy profile is because the garments rely on warm air trapped around the body. Warm air won't cause sweat like heavy clinging fabrics.

When you start getting into deep cold below -20 or -30 f. things start to get really weird, and really dangerous. You don't typically run at those temps. You move slowly and deliberately. And since your body can no longer register the temperature you have to be extra careful about exposed skin.

[TLDFAN]

I bike year round in Anchorage and I agree sweat is an increasingly important issue when it starts getting lower than around 10 f. I use wicking fabric to help, but the body is constantly at odds between heating up muscles (triggering sweat) and warming up exposed parts. When you stop for awhile you really start to feel it. My worst experience was on a particularly cold day (for Anchorage ) of -15 f. I decided to put on my multi-fabric uber ultimate union suit of long underwear. It worked! Unfortunately I was drenched in sweat after a half hour ride, and if I didn't have shelter to get into I would have been in real trouble as it was already starting to freeze stiff. Some clothes are made for passive riding on a snow machine.

If you examine the traditional garments of the Inuit, Aleut, Alutiiq and others, you'll notice they paid very, very close attention to this issue. They tend to be rather puffy, giving the illusion of "fat" people when the reality is very different. The puffy profile is because the garments rely on warm air trapped around the body. Warm air won't cause sweat like heavy clinging fabrics.

When you start getting into deep cold below -20 or -30 f. things start to get really weird, and really dangerous. You don't typically run at those temps. You move slowly and deliberately. And since your body can no longer register the temperature you have to be extra careful about exposed skin.

You really sound like you know what you are talking about when it comes to extreme cold temps. Yeah once you get down into that range the you can't breathe as hard because the air is so cold and so dry, running even in stagnant air brings you a wind chill effect so any moisture on the skin instantly freezes or evaporates even sub-liminates on exposed skin. With that evaporation heat is rapidly lost.