Variable search speed


ArrayKnight

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Currently there is a container search progress bar that is consistent in the amount of time it takes no matter the container size or the end result (num of items). I feel like smaller containers and empty containers should take less time.

It could easily be argued that containers that are "empty" are not actually empty but rather empty of anything useful/playable which would take time to determine...

Thoughts?

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We actually have support for a per-container search time, but it's the same value across all container types (except for corpses, which are technically containers under-the-hood). I like the idea of having the search time reflect the container type and contents.

There is another thread going about the level of darkness affecting search times too. I personally like the idea, as it adds one more layer of depth to the act of searching.

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I agree with the containerSearchTime Alan. There has to be a mix up, because not ALL empty containers are going to have something in them, but not usable, some of them should be empty, empty !!

And when it comes to having the "unusable" is it possible to discard that item ??

ATM, I'm searching and just grabbing everything in the container, and there is no thought at the moment for what I'm taking, and there is nothing to discard or not choose to take. This to me is a little unrealistic, as I get the idea of racing into a room, open a drawer and go through it grabbing franticly looking at each item, and throwing the stuff I don't want over my shoulder in desperation to get to the next item in the drawer look and make that split decision . . . .

As it stands, if there is something there, I transfer everything, and that has no . . . . . feel to it, if you know what I mean.

EDIT : And yes variable search speed for the size of container, whats in it, and what it is. Some things take longer to open, like a drawer is quick, but metal container with a latch a little longer . . . . .

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ATM, I'm searching and just grabbing everything in the container, and there is no thought at the moment for what I'm taking, and there is nothing to discard or not choose to take. This to me is a little unrealistic, as I get the idea of racing into a room, open a drawer and go through it grabbing franticly looking at each item, and throwing the stuff I don't want over my shoulder in desperation to get to the next item in the drawer look and make that split decision . . .

As it stands, if there is something there, I transfer everything, and that has no . . . . . feel to it, if you know what I mean.

I disagree -- mainly as I'm assuming (quite possibly wrongly) that the search time would include tossing away unnecessary odds and ends, drawer fluff, etc.


Still -- a couple of red herring objects [things that may seem to serve a purpose, but actually don't in the sandbox mode] might be interesting... taking up weight, but the player doesn't want to leave it behind because they figure there must be an important use for it [which there isn't].

e.g. a fully loaded semi-automatic magazine clip... but there's actually no gun for it to really go with [toss the clips in the fire, and might blast yourself]... there are other uses for the components, but basically in this case the clip is a red herring. Heck, you could take it a step further by having another red herring be an automatic rifle -- but those clips don't fit [and there aren't any that do].

Carry food and survival stuff? Or are you sure there has to be a use for these things...

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Brent -- the choice of what to take and what to leave behind should be based on inventory capacity and what you think you might need. At some point you'll have access to far more stuff than you can comfortably carry -- so you make a choice. Leave it? Gather things into caches you've created so you can find them easily when you need them? Carry more than you should and deal with the Encumbrance penalty?

Search time representing the "value" of what is in the container -- this is already accounted for in things like locked containers (currently only lockers); there is an extra "step" and pre-requisite required to open them, and they have a more lucrative loot table than a standard container.

Putting things in the world that have no real use or value, and opening the possibility that the player may burden themselves with these things because they "trust" the game (and us) to only give them things that have a purpose...not only is this bad design, but it's deceitful. :(

Ideally, everything you can find in the game should have a purpose. If you know that and believe it, then when you find things that don't have an obvious purpose, you try to figure out what they could be used for, thereby discovering new gameplay.

In fact, if we had red herring objects in the game, the player behaviour will quickly become the opposite if what you guys are looking for -- people will learn to only trust the things they can easily use, so you won't bother with anything but food, water, first aid supplies, and any tools you can use. Anything else carries too high a penalty, because you may be sacrificing something usable for something completely useless.

So yeah...don't expect to find stuff in the game that has no use. Everything will have a use, but the use may not always be obvious...

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utting things in the world that have no real use or value, and opening the possibility that the player may burden themselves with these things because they "trust" the game (and us) to only give them things that have a purpose...not only is this bad design, but it's deceitful. :(

Very good point, and I can see why you wouldn't use this approach now. :)

[Old habit -- I still tend to think back to the days of Infocom red herrings that I enjoyed so much -- but can see why that wouldn't work here]

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah -- the idea was to address two issues:

- The sense of "hoovering" gear from the world and never really seeing it or feeling a sense of "putting your hands on it"; this is why we created the Inspection mode to begin with, because we felt without it, picking up gear was a very intangible, unrewarding experience

- Creating a bit of a sense of anticipation during the search process: "Am I going to find something? What's it going to be?"

For me, it works wonderfully to deliver on these goals. After all, retrieving gear should be one of the most interesting parts of the game since it's so fundamental to the core game loop.

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I understand.

I think the one thing that is more difficult to determine is if the value/weight/capacity/quantity ratio is justifiable to warrant taking the item, since we no longer have the context of what we're currently carrying.

Am I close to my capacity limit? (Turns out if I wait a second that info fades in) Do I need this in the immediate future? Do I already have six of these?

I do enjoy the anticipation though.

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Personally I'm loving seeing an image of each item as I go through the search:

1) I can immediately decide [when room is tight] what to skip or what to keep

2) Kinda exciting when something is found, and I know there's still time left on the search timer... kinda builds anticipation yelling "more more more Big Money!" in the background as each search time continues

3) Feels so much more interactive now because it's like searching and discovering the items and pulling them out one at at time -- just like real life. You wouldn't find everything in one grab, so I find this has a slightly more immersive feeling.

I like it :)

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I understand.

I think the one thing that is more difficult to determine is if the value/weight/capacity/quantity ratio is justifiable to warrant taking the item, since we no longer have the context of what we're currently carrying.

Am I close to my capacity limit? (Turns out if I wait a second that info fades in) Do I need this in the immediate future? Do I already have six of these?

I do enjoy the anticipation though.

Ray -- I could see an iteration on this in the future where we display any identical items you have in your inventory.

That said, some degree of inventory management should be handled in the inventory itself. That said, there are a lot of games that involve picking up gear items in the world, where you still have to go through the process of sorting your inventory, discarding things, etc. every once in a while because you end up with a whole bunch of stuff.

General inventory UI improvements should make this process a little more enjoyable.

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Just noticed that the last item in a draw invoked the inventory screen. Is this because there is no art for a wool hat, yet?

Yeah, anything that currently doesn't have a proper mesh in the world and can't be displayed in Inspection mode invokes the Inventory interface. It's a workaround.

We'll get the rest of the meshes done, eventually. It's all about weighing priorities.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Personally I'm loving seeing an image of each item as I go through the search:

1) I can immediately decide [when room is tight] what to skip or what to keep

2) Kinda exciting when something is found, and I know there's still time left on the search timer... kinda builds anticipation yelling "more more more Big Money!" in the background as each search time continues

3) Feels so much more interactive now because it's like searching and discovering the items and pulling them out one at at time -- just like real life. You wouldn't find everything in one grab, so I find this has a slightly more immersive feeling.

I like it :)

I am really coming around on this. I'm liking it more and more as I play. Raph/Alan, I think you really are headed in the right direction with this. :D

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