stalker Mode: Predators realism


Ms Nutcracker

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Well I think we agree on a lot of those other elements to enhancing realism, I think we're discussing them in that thread about running in the suggestions board.

That being said, while I am a big fan of enhancing realism, I'm a realist myself. I think asking a game to deliver intense realism in every aspect (which is what this is starting to become it seems like) is too much. I think not only is it too much for the developers to create, but I think it's too much for people to play.

I mean I've said it before but it bears repeating, a large number of people see wolves as too strong in fighting situations as it is, and honestly while your recommendations would make wolves more realistic as to how they act in the world now (even though hinterland says they aren't trying to do that), I think they would also make wolf fights into basically guaranteed deaths. If that's what you want then I can understand that out of a desire for realism, but I think all those players who already complain about wolf attacks are gonna be out of here if you make wolf attacks even more difficult to survive, which it sounds like your recommendations would do.

They are poorly implemented. They are the villain. They are the entity to be avoided but really they are only dangerous because they are cheap. Don't be fooled into thinking asking for some more code on AI for one of the 4 animals in the game is asking too much because it isn't. I have argued that the attacks when you get ganged up or end up in a surprise situation at full health that you have less of a chance than you should is also cheap, not hard, CHEAP!

If you desire realism, and I desire realism and more of the player-base does too not at the expense of gameplay but in supplement and compliment to it, then seeing it improved and deepened will only add to the value of the product. If it takes time and resources away from features such as "tutorials" which can be done way better by youtube, or "the leaderboards" which on a single player game, serve no real purpose, have already been exploited and are unmanageable to the point they actually have to post on these very forums saying they won't support baked/hammered/ cracked/hacked/modded/re-imagined game... oh me oh my apple pie,

THEN SO BE IT! BE IT BE IT BE IT :mrgreen:

Being that we are in Alpha, and we are now in a "managed community" We might see the employee responsible for that particular duty and only that particular duty organizing some "community surveys" in order to help understand what characteristics of the product (game) the consumers (players) place highest value vs lowest value.

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They are poorly implemented. They are the villain. They are the entity to be avoided but really they are only dangerous because they are cheap. Don't be fooled into thinking asking for some more code on AI for one of the 4 animals in the game is asking too much because it isn't. I have argued that the attacks when you get ganged up or end up in a surprise situation at full health that you have less of a chance than you should is also cheap, not hard, CHEAP!

If you desire realism, and I desire realism and more of the player-base does too not at the expense of gameplay but in supplement and compliment to it, then seeing it improved and deepened will only add to the value of the product. If it takes time and resources away from features such as "tutorials" which can be done way better by youtube, or "the leaderboards" which on a single player game, serve no real purpose, have already been exploited and are unmanageable to the point they actually have to post on these very forums saying they won't support baked/hammered/ cracked/hacked/modded/re-imagined game... oh me oh my apple pie,

THEN SO BE IT! BE IT BE IT BE IT :mrgreen:

Being that we are in Alpha, and we are now in a "managed community" We might see the employee responsible for that particular duty and only that particular duty organizing some "community surveys" in order to help understand what characteristics of the product (game) the consumers (players) place highest value vs lowest value.

I think one of the problems we have here is that we are not going to see eye to eye on the wolves being cheap. I've never been one shotted, and the examples that players have given that I've read of the 1 or 2 times they have been one shotted, what they describe sound like bugs or errors. I have been snuck up on by wolves, attacked by two, and I honestly, in over 100 hours playing, don't think I've ever been killed by a single wolf attack when I've had 100% condition.

I know others have played more, and there appears to be people claiming they get one shotted, but they can't give examples, I've never seen video footage of it happening, it doesn't sound like it's actually a part of the mechanic to have a wolf come and insta-kill you. I wish the developers would clear this up for us at this point honestly.

I agree with you that some more wolf realism would be cool, but I still think that you are making an assumption based on what you want, when you say that the majority of players want wolves the way you describe them. Even though I think it would be cool, I think a lot of players think fighting four wolves at once would be "Too hard so cheap!". An official poll on the topic would be interesting so we could stop operating under assumptions.

Like I think if you want realism, one human isn't going to do well against a single 80-120 pound grey wolf with only a knife. Might walk away with 15-30% condition left, and you're going to have to spend a lot more than one bandage, a little hydrogen peroxide (which slows healing) and a night of sleep to recover. You put four against one human? That's death. While it's realistic, I don't think the people complaining about wolf strength are going to like those changes.

Plus I think the whole "One wolf shouldn't attack people" Suggestion has to be let go of for now. Hinterland makes it clear that they are aware of this fact, and don't care.

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It would be nice to see some varied, more wolf-like behavior--even apart from interacting with the player. Currently they mostly just plod around, howl occasionally, and chase other animals if they come near. I like all these, but I would also like to see them exhibit some other things - e.g. sniffing the ground, just sitting/standing and watching, digging, (rarely) lift a leg, etc. Maybe this something the developers already have in mind, and I can understand aesthetic things not being a priority at this point.

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I think one of the problems we have here is that we are not going to see eye to eye on the wolves being cheap. I've never been one shotted, and the examples that players have given that I've read of the 1 or 2 times they have been one shotted, what they describe sound like bugs or errors. I have been snuck up on by wolves, attacked by two, and I honestly, in over 100 hours playing, don't think I've ever been killed by a single wolf attack when I've had 100% condition.

I know others have played more, and there appears to be people claiming they get one shotted, but they can't give examples, I've never seen video footage of it happening, it doesn't sound like it's actually a part of the mechanic to have a wolf come and insta-kill you. I wish the developers would clear this up for us at this point honestly.

I agree with you that some more wolf realism would be cool, but I still think that you are making an assumption based on what you want, when you say that the majority of players want wolves the way you describe them. Even though I think it would be cool, I think a lot of players think fighting four wolves at once would be "Too hard so cheap!". An official poll on the topic would be interesting so we could stop operating under assumptions.

Like I think if you want realism, one human isn't going to do well against a single 80-120 pound grey wolf with only a knife. Might walk away with 15-30% condition left, and you're going to have to spend a lot more than one bandage, a little hydrogen peroxide (which slows healing) and a night of sleep to recover. You put four against one human? That's death. While it's realistic, I don't think the people complaining about wolf strength are going to like those changes.

Plus I think the whole "One wolf shouldn't attack people" Suggestion has to be let go of for now. Hinterland makes it clear that they are aware of this fact, and don't care.

Omfg, dude, the problem is not one shotting wolves, it is HOW the act and how you only have very few things to control them. The point of survival is to conserve your resources so you can last a long time.Now in this instance you are pushed into cheap attacks.I don´t want to waste bullets, my knife or first aid on a random attack, that I could have avoided by making decisions based on how wolves in reality behave.In this game I am punished for that.Conforming to that means(for me) that I am a sheep.

All those deaths because of low conditions are justified.Every experienced player knows how to avoid them.I´m tired of seeing people explain how not to get into a fight with a wolf(use a knife or hatchet, 100%, building attacks, blablaba.

That´s literally the most obvious part of fighting them.There is literal info on that)

You yourself are making an assumption based on what you want.You are not a badass for avoiding wolves or not getting oneshotted.

Everything you do to currently avoid them makes no sense - you shouldn´t outrun them, they act like homing missiles, they don´t have a condition level themselves.

I realize I´m replying a bit late as a new update just went live, but I just could not let this go.

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I believe I was talking to someone else, someone who has mentioned one shotting wolves and what not, and who has called the wolf mechanics "Cheap" which is what I was disagreeing with. If you have your own opinion on the topic I'm glad to discuss it, but I do not appreciate the hostility in you addressing me, considering I wasn't even directing my comment on you, and you were not at all involved in this conversation and clearly missed part of it.

I have agreed numerous times in this thread, that the wolf mechanics aren't realistic, that it would be cool to have more realistic wolf mechanics, so again I don't understand why you're coming off so hostile considering the fact that we seem to agree that realistic wolf mechanics would be cool.

And as you said, you are late, the update has dramatically changed how the wolves act.

I for one, love the changes. They are significantly more dangerous, the chances of having to fight more than once at a time are dramatically higher now that they acquire targets from farther distances (Although I doubt any of us want true realism considering grey wolves can smell from an upper limit of 1.2-1.5 miles away in good conditions, aka most of the map if you're on ML or CH), you can now use the wind direction to avoid wolves smelling you as easily. The changes made add a lot of depth to the wolves and completely changes the mechanics when it comes to avoiding them. They also detect you easier now when you have open wounds or raw meat on you. I think the changes have made the wolves a much more viable threat, which I am quite welcome to have.

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I believe I was talking to someone else, someone who has mentioned one shotting wolves and what not, and who has called the wolf mechanics "Cheap" which is what I was disagreeing with. If you have your own opinion on the topic I'm glad to discuss it, but I do not appreciate the hostility in you addressing me, considering I wasn't even directing my comment on you, and you were not at all involved in this conversation and clearly missed part of it.

I have agreed numerous times in this thread, that the wolf mechanics aren't realistic, that it would be cool to have more realistic wolf mechanics, so again I don't understand why you're coming off so hostile considering the fact that we seem to agree that realistic wolf mechanics would be cool.

And as you said, you are late, the update has dramatically changed how the wolves act.

I for one, love the changes. They are significantly more dangerous, the chances of having to fight more than once at a time are dramatically higher now that they acquire targets from farther distances (Although I doubt any of us want true realism considering grey wolves can smell from an upper limit of 1.2-1.5 miles away in good conditions, aka most of the map if you're on ML or CH), you can now use the wind direction to avoid wolves smelling you as easily. The changes made add a lot of depth to the wolves and completely changes the mechanics when it comes to avoiding them. They also detect you easier now when you have open wounds or raw meat on you. I think the changes have made the wolves a much more viable threat, which I am quite welcome to have.

Have to agree. Screaming mayday by mid-evening is how I always wanted it. Now you can't travel at night at all. Wolves are deadly and dangerous. They also are much more likely to come at you. You can defend them slightly better but that is offset but the number of attacks, the size of the map that is not under danger of threat. the AI seems to be better however it still isn't as varied or random as I'd like. Even in Voyager the game is more difficult but it is actually playable in Voyager. Stalker is a joke right now. If you make it to day 5 then you probably have the tools to continue to endure against the environmental but are still highly likely to die by Wolf. Maybe 90%+ every few days.

Stalker goes like this right now.

Days 1-3

Chance to die by wolf attack 95%

Chance to die by combination of below 50%

Chance to die from Exposure 40%

Chance to die from Thirst 25%

Chance to die from Starvation 10%

Food Poisoning 20%

Ankle Sprain 20%

Days 4-10

Chance to die by wolf attack 85%

Chance to die by combination of below 75%

Chance to die from Exposure 50%

Chance to die from Thirst 15%

Chance to die from Starvation 5%

Food Poisoning 30%

Ankle Sprain 20%

Days 10-40

Chance to die by wolf attack 80%

Chance to die by combination of below 50%

Chance to die from Exposure 35%

Chance to die from Thirst 5%

Chance to die from Starvation 5%

Food Poisoning 40%

Ankle Sprain 20%

Days 40-120

Blah blah blah

Your cumulative chance to die by a wolf attack puts your certainty of dying by a wolf attack at nearly 100% the longer you live. I could live to 500 days just hunting and making snares, and without wolves, my greatest danger would be running out of matches in the endgame or dying from exposure getting caught in a storm without any way of keeping a fire going.

=== Which is why I am simply done with Stalker. ===

Until we have more tools to combat wolves and they reduce the number of active predators. I've been playing Stalkker for a few weeks non-stop last night I decided to stop pissing on my campfire and play a round of Voyager. Not only was it more engaging and fun but I remember what it is like to not be traveling by constant snowstorm and dying every hour or two real world. It was much much more enjoyable.

Call me softcore if you want but I don't want to waste resources in order to leverage my other conditions simply to keep myself alive to become wolf bait in the end. If this is to be the development path of TLD they should remove the disclaimer and rename the game Wolf Avoider. Since the game is not dark half of the time but you have to constantly avoid the wolves in order to keep playing.

I'm done putting in quarters guys on Stalker guys.

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Well I don't wanna say told you so butttttt...................

I mean in all honesty, the wolves are more realistic, which is what everyone was wanting. They seem to be slightly more in packs than just wandering by themselves, they detect from further range, they look for blood/raw meat. It's what all the people asking for changes and wanting more realism from the wolves were asking for, and it has made them significantly more challenging, and now one of the big advocates for more realistic wolves is quitting Stalker.

The wolves are harder, Stalker is no joke. My first 5 lives playing after the update had me struggling to figure out the new mechanics, range, etc. I'm currently about 20+ days into my stalker run, living in the coastal townsite after having swept and cleared Mystery Lake. I'm working on sweeping and clearing CH so I can move on to PV.

In stalker, a few things are abundantly clear now.

Don't go out under 100% unless absolutely necessary. Walking around at 60% is a recipe for death now that you're significantly more likely to run into a second wolf after an attack than ever before thanks to them being attracted to your fresh bleeding wounds.

Use Decoys. I never really use to use them, saw them as a waste back in the day. In this new update, due to the increased detection range (still not realistic btw) I've found myself using it a bit, especially after a kill. Trying to get somewhere safe to cook raw meat is quite dangerous now, but sacrificing 1 of my 5 chunks of raw wolf meat is worth it to stay alive and get the rest cooked and stored.

Torches, how do you work!? I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the torch is all about. Does it work as well as a flare if you throw it at a wolf? Does swiping it actually do something? I've tried a torch once and it got my face eaten. I've been wary of them ever since.

Getting yourself some gear to stay warm and keeping other vitals up is even more important than before. Before update walking around with 60-80% condition wasn't too big of deal, but now it's basically a death wish.

This all being said, Stalker IS playable, but you truly must be on point. You have to be quick with decisions, know where you are on the map, and of course understanding the mechanics and the pull range for wolves. I certainly struggled the first few playthroughs, just trying to figure out what I can still get away with etc. Now that I have more comfort and a better understanding of that range, I'm feeling good. Bedrolls break down to a ton of cloth so bandages aren't quite as scarce as before, and I know that once I reach PV I can craft my own bandages. It's a great update and I can't wait to see what Hinterland brings for us next.

Please keep Stalker hard. I basically quit Dying Light for being too easy and am continuing to be thoroughly satisfied with the experience you have created, and seem to be trying to create here.

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