Hardcore mode!

[FluffyGotKilled]

Hello everyone !

Anyone who lived + ~30 days in stalker is soon stuck in a routine. Wake up, hunt/fish/rabbits, forage, eat, repeat.

The difficulty level keeps decreasing longer we play. With +20 warmth & all the map looted, we can go on surviving for months & months. Sometimes without even leaving the house for days.

I would propose & love to see a new mode in the (hopefully) near future: the Hardcore mode.

Let me explain in what it could consist (any other ideas are welcome, i may edit this post to add some):

• Resources: Less, WAY less resources on the map (I actually have 60 cloths, 25 leather, 10kg of meat, 11 bullets, +19°C warmth, 60 matches, and all that after ~40 days).
  For example, clothing should be at least as rare as antibiotic: we now have nearly infinite repair resources to keep us at least +15°.
  
• Hunting: there are too many deer, rabbits, and wolves. Any one who has hunted before knows that it's impossible to find 2 deer in a 30 minutes walk, and twice as many fluffy dogs. Hunting should be a challenge: you have to pack up food, antibiotics, spare clothing to go find a pray that will yield enough food for 3-4 days. So: Less animals, but wolves should be way more aggressive. A hungry wolf is nearly inevitable.
  
• Temperature: Continuously decreasing temperatures, staying inside by blizzard & having stove-like cloths make the "cold bar" become useless.
  
• Eating: As mentioned in other posts, there are many ways to "exploit" the system. One should constantly be well-fed in this very cold weather, since you need loads of fat. Starving for 6 days, then eating a burger & sleep to full condition shouldn't be viable. Instead, increasing the amount of calories needed when the bar is low(instead of 2'500kcal, we would need to eat 4'000kcal) in order to "get some good ol' fat and full replenish the 2'500kcal bar can be a nice way to fix this issue. Also, the general health condition would ONLY increase when you have +90% of the food bar.
  
• Events: I think that if we introduce random events (Hail storms, wolves migrations, forest fires, sudden cold or even better decreasing temperatures for 2 days, and then a massive 3-4 days blizzard), it would increase the "repeatability" of the game by 300%. Many of us stopped playing just "waitin' for the next Update", because we had simply nothing to be careful about.

Here you go guys, i would love to have your feedback to maybe add some things to the list. However, i'm here talking about game "mechanics" (don't know the actual term), not about additional items like bears or candles.

Thanks for reading !

[pikkue]

+1

[Myshaak]

+1

Many of us stopped playing just "waitin' for the next Update", because we had simply nothing to be careful about.

+1 as well.

[Oceris]

+1 I hope that designers of the long dark are reading their own forum and will see your post. Making this game more challenging is in my opinion something that will make you keep playing it. I especially like the part about 3-4 days lasting blizzards. The point you made about hunting is also very good.

-In my opinion there should be nights when the temperature goes down so much that sitting in house wouldn't be enough to survive. You would have to make a fire to survive.

[tsotha]

I don't dislike the idea, but I'd rather the devs didn't put a lot of effort into adding features for 2% of players that have the skills and desire take advantage of them.

[Cosmoline]

I agree with the idea of ending the starvation exploits and making game more realistic (ie wolves in packs, deer that stay clear after you make a kill). But I wouldn't want to see a mode that was just absurdly difficult for the sake of ensuring enough excitement. Part of the fun playing long games in sandbox is the metaphysical questions. At what point do you just head out to face your death in the woods? How long do you keep going, and for what?

And keep in mind that the actual GAME has yet to appear, and will no doubt include many missions and challenges that increase as the game proceeds.

[EmperorZeb]

I can dig this.

[FluffyGotKilled]

And keep in mind that the actual GAME has yet to appear, and will no doubt include many missions and challenges that increase as the game proceeds.

I know that the actual GAME has yet to appear, and in order to have a better "GAME", i think that suggestions from the community are important. Don't you think Cosmoline?

They sure have a lot of ideas to develop, and adding some more excitement (Loads of the ideas on the list are fully applicable to other modes, even voyageur (-> 2 full days blizzard, less dear...)) is always, always well appreciated.

[Oceris]

But I wouldn't want to see a mode that was just absurdly difficult for the sake of ensuring enough excitement. Part of the fun playing long games in sandbox is the metaphysical questions. At what point do you just head out to face your death in the woods? How long do you keep going, and for what?

You know, i think this is kind of game that you shouldn't be able to gather as much stuff as you can do now, while playing on the highest difficulty. Right now i am able to gather so much food and equipment that i could literally sit on my ass for like a week and just sleep and eat.

[FluffyGotKilled]

I'm making a run to try out the survibility just by looting. ON STALKER.

It's now day 2, and i have loads of cloth (harvested EVERY cloth, repaired NOTHING), scrap metal, ate ONLY looted food, NEVER made water, NEVER hunter nor took some meat from a dead body, NEVER SLEPT IN HOUSES. I stayed inside just the time of looting (~1h).

From the food i looted so far, i can live for 4 more days (with nearly all costal highway looted).

[tsotha]

But I wouldn't want to see a mode that was just absurdly difficult for the sake of ensuring enough excitement. Part of the fun playing long games in sandbox is the metaphysical questions. At what point do you just head out to face your death in the woods? How long do you keep going, and for what?

You know, i think this is kind of game that you shouldn't be able to gather as much stuff as you can do now, while playing on the highest difficulty. Right now i am able to gather so much food and equipment that i could literally sit on my ass for like a week and just sleep and eat.

Spare a thought for the new player, though. You're able to do that because you know where all the lootable buildings are and where the wolves spawn.

[Bill Tarling]

Spare a thought for the new player, though. You're able to do that because you know where all the lootable buildings are and where the wolves spawn.

But at the same time, that's why you start out in Voyageur [regular mode] or even Pilgrim mode... you learn the mechanics, layouts, how to navigate when you do or don't know and area, how to watch for wildlife patterns, how to stretch out supplies, etc.

Stalker mode should be intended for a lot less coddling (and yes you expect to die a lot)... If you're being killed too fast and frequently, then chances are there are some skills which you haven't quite worked out yet -- it either takes more time, trying different approaches, or even going down a mode to try getting more bearings first.

There will still be a lot of lucky and unlucky runs, as well as good/bad decisions - but a hardcore Stalker mode player knows that's the challenge... as long as there are a number of other players surviving, then you know there's a way to get through it, and a Stalker player drives on anxiously to discover those mystery techniques. 8-)

[Lux]

I think that a truly "hardcore" Stalker mode isn't possible without being very contrived and "just to be hard" and wouldn't be realistic in a game.

The reason is, it isn't hard. Your stomach doesn't actually ache like a bottomless pit, you don't feel frostbite, you feel a little cold but not like you would in game, your ankle is sprained but you can take painkillers and it doesn't really hurt. That wolf over there sees you limping and knows you're wounded but you're not actually scared for your life. Its not your real blood on the snow.

For them to make some of these things either more realistic or more difficult, it will feel forced the more they do towards that direction, to the point where people then start thinking the game isn't fair, they don't have a chance, etc. People do things because they're challenging and fun. How many people want to honestly do something that sucks to do. Well that sucks and its unfairly difficult...yeah lets do that. You cHOOSe to be in those situations in life because you wouldn't cHOOSe to be in one, they just happen and then you have no way out other than to fight for your life. That's hard to simulate in a game.

I don't know how many of you have played Medal of Honor or Call of Duty or any shooter on the most difficult setting but the AI don't give you a realistic chance because they're Ai Bots, they don't miss, and its hard to simulate that. Obviously TLD and either of those games are the polar opposites of each other but they're just to illustrate a point. The harder they make the game past the point of realism, the more unauthentic it will feel.

If they wanted to go the route of super-realism it still wouldn't be that hard of a game because of the things I said before. Its a game, you're not actually cold, you're not actually hungry, you're not actually tired, its not your blood, etc. and in an experience like this, those intangible factors are what makes the experience grueling and mentally challenging. They would have to add a ton of things to the game to approach that type of realism and I'm not sure there would be any end to the public comments and criticisms (as usual).

There will always be people posting maps on the internet of new areas (wish the didn't exist), where everything is located, Tutorials! Cheats! Guides! Exploits! blah blah blah. So the kiddies will survive 500 days in the new Hardcore Stalker mode and the purists out there will wonder how its possible because they're not using all the crutches. They'll have a much better experience with less complaints though, overall. Gathering your intel from the world and not the internet enriches the experience 10 fold and also reduces the complaints about the game being too easy.

I don't think Stalker mode is hard but I'm not to the late game yet. There are still some mechanics that need added for late game play to even be viable. I do think its pretty balanced as it is, but just needs some tweaks here and there. Let's hope the dev team can strike a better balance than any dev team in history thus far. People don't think that's a lot to ask but there is a lot involved and there are no "simple" solutions as many would portray.

I always play games on the most difficult setting and there are always ways to beat the game because...its a game.

I never played Voyager mode. I started on Stalker because I watched a couple "Let's Plays" which is where I discovered the game in the first place and there was way too much "loot". Stalker mode already feels unrealistic in the lack of loot but it feels pretty balanced, IMO. A little forced. There would be realistically, way more stuff, junk, crap laying around realistically, but I'm one of those kinds of people that cAn actually fix nearly anything in RL. Not just because I have a menu in-game telling me what my character is capable of in the game. I know there are others like that out there but I also know that by-and-large, people aren't that way in RL and would struggle in any kind of actual situation like the one portrayed in the game.

I think forcing yourself to play a certain way enables you to get any experience you want with the game, at present (right now). Some will argue, yeah but "that feels forced" or "doesn't feel realistic" but I don't think personally that those arguments are ever going to go away and if anything they're only going to get worse with more difficult modes and on top of that, having "LEADERBOARDS".... yeah I don't even want to comment on leaderboards...

I hope the devs push towards ultra realism as much as they can but we'll just have to wait and see what we get in the end.

[Oceris]

That's what i mean.

[Hylander]

I think forcing yourself to play a certain way enables you to get any experience you want with the game, at present (right now).

I agree completely, and this is how I play - I never let my character starve. I always try and keep her topped up to 2500 calories, because that is exactly what I would do in a real life situation. As soon as that calorie counter drops below 1700, I'm eating another chunk of venison.

You the player can impose restrictions on how you play, to make the game more challenging. You don't need to wait for the devs to force you to play a certain way. Yeah, you won't get on the leaderboards that way, but why are you playing? Me, I'm playing for the experience, the mood, the way the game makes me feel, which would be "icky" if I was constantly starving my character.

[pulkmees]

I still think Wolves are bad enemies in Stalker or in Voyager.Literally every single death is caused by them.And not because of a bad decisions, but bad AI and spawns.I don´t try to abuse the system, I roleplay in a way that expects them to be like wolves yet I´m always left dissappointed.

They are basically like heatseeking rockets untill you run behind something.

They can see and/or hear you when you´re behind buildings and immediately start following you.Buildings in general fuck up their AI, they start circling it and once you´re in their radius, the bounce without warning.It´s hard to avoid such a thing when you want to loot a certain building you are left freezing your nuts off because some wolf can spot you from behind a building.

They can´t go up stairs.

There are WAY too many of them.At least have them in one place, like their den, where they guard their pups, so it actually makes sense to attack you.And if they are hungry wolves, they should hunt in packs, which means actually avoiding them.In general they should be more of a rarity rather than some scale you can up to make the game harder.

Wolves attack you because they can magically sense you are encumbered or tired is bullshit.They immediately become homing missiles.

Hurt wolves are as fast as healthy wolves and they don´t always run away.OR if they do they run into walls.

They stop stalking you after you go behind something.WTF.Later I return to the place, only for it to patrol the EXACT same area.I´d rather not abuse the game and learn some stupid patrol patterns., which I actually cant abuse anyway because they can magically hear me from behind buildings.If I can´t lure them away, whats the point.

Now if anything I rather have all the animals be finite, so it doesn´t actually become a borefest after you´ve looted everything.If you´re going to do the same thing for 200 days, then whats the point really ? To use your loot in the most optimal way ? To abuse Rabbit Island for eternity ?

If in time you find a way to make new options available after all the loot is gather then do it, but in the mean time why let us do the same things for 200 days ?

If the animals will be finite, then that means you have to actively search them.Wolves attacking deer now means spoiled meat if you don´t have a knife/hatchet when it happens.

[Lux]

There are some wolf changes included in the next update and probably many updates to come. I'm sure the devs will arrive at a behavior model that is very good in the end. For me personally, I think they should be more of a threat than they are now, at least on Stalker.

Wolves are keen predators with excellent hearing and sense of smell. Sometimes times they'll fight tooth and nail till the end in an aggressive rage. Sometimes they'll high tail it fearing for their life. Sometimes they'll go get help from the pack.

It will be great to play against these mechanics in the finished game.

[EternityTide]

I would like to see new achievements added for the different modes. For example, if you kill 20 wolves in Stalker mode, you get the achievement "Hunting the hunters". Surviving 20 days in Hardcore "Live to die another day", 50 days "Canadian woodsman" and at the 100 days mark on Hardcore "At one with the cold".

If you find all the locations in both maps in Pilgrim mode you get "Frostbitten Tourist", and "Animal lover" if you survive 50 days without killing a single animal.

[Lux]

Haha, nice achievement names!

[FluffyGotKilled]

These achievements looks so cool! Would be awesome to have them.

[TheIncredibleHibby]

I would like to see new achievements added for the different modes. For example, if you kill 20 wolves in Stalker mode, you get the achievement "Hunting the hunters". Surviving 20 days in Hardcore "Live to die another day", 50 days "Canadian woodsman" and at the 100 days mark on Hardcore "At one with the cold".

If you find all the locations in both maps in Pilgrim mode you get "Frostbitten Tourist", and "Animal lover" if you survive 50 days without killing a single animal.

Yeeeeessss I'm an absolute sucker for achievements too, so adding more of them is always welcome in my book :mrgreen:

[Bill Tarling]

Although there would be a lot of furious players - hopefully at some point all the achievements will be blanked, and require starting from the absolute beginning again... otherwise it's simply a case of completing a lot of them while they can still be done during some early[easier] sessions, or using in-game exploits which haven't been fixed yet...

Myself I would rather wait until further towards completion before loading up a pile of new achievements - so at least everybody can earn them fairly (or simply make the current achievements an archival subset)

[TheIncredibleHibby]

I can totally understand that! And hey, if I got them once, there's nothing saying I can't get them again (and it would give me the chance to be smarter about getting the 3 night achievement, hehe). That being said, I would rather wait for more development completion being done before more achievements are added. Either way, I'm a pretty patient person.