TLD WISHLIST FOR 2015

[TLDFAN]

1. Recurve Bow & Arrow set. Make it damageable, make it broken upon find and need items to be crafted, make it so there is only one in the game, make it whatever but give us an alternative to gun hunting that will not scare off an animal when you miss or misfire.

2. Alternative renewable fire starting methods. Right now one of the biggest weaknesses of sustainability game is lack of fire starting beyond matches. Look all you need is to generate heat in a confined space. The polar magnetic shift did not change the laws of friction physics so you aren't getting out of this one. This should fail a lot in the open outdoors, your success rate with this method should be only like 10-20% base but you should be able to start a fire with fire plough, hand drill or the best method, the bow drill! Indoors you base success rate with this should be about that of matches without accelerant. All you need with these is wood, a stone or knife or some cloth string you can make from cloth. The fire plough could cost a lot of fatigue and the bow drill could break frequently but the bottom line is after the matches run out, this needs to be how we endure.

3. More tree types and shrubbery. Not so much around the trees in the forest, but near the shorelines, and near clearings.

4. More animal varieties.

5. Better animal AI, especially wolves, their behavior is pretty predictable. Their behavior should be anything but predictable. Wolf AI needs the most work they should stalk you for a great distance. They should be more likely to attack if threatened. They should be more skittish if you adopt a more defensive posture. If you don't run they should be very skittish but if you run that should activate a very intense drive to attack in them.

6. More accurate water states. If and when the devs decide to make a more physical-virtual inventory system instead of the virtual-virtual inventory system for water, I am hoping they will at least allow a certain maximum water supply instead of the semi-ridiculous water modeling that exists at present.

7. Snow foraging. If you make us forage for wood, why not forage for snow? At least as exciting a task as wood foraging.

8.

[EternityTide]

A bow, once broken, cannot be used again. perhaps the bow string is broken, but if the body of the bow is broken, it cannot be used, whatsoever.

As it stands, there is already an alternative to matches in the game, namely the magnifying lens found at the trapper's homestead, which can be used outdoors to light fires. As well as that, you have the firestriker which also acts as an alternative to matches. I would like to see the opportunity to find shards of flint or similar alongside the coast, which can be used in combination with the hunting knife as an emergency fire-lighter, at the detriment to the knife's condition.

would you like to expand on your suggestion in point 3?

[elloco999]

3.

Completely agree with this!

...As it stands, there is already an alternative to matches in the game, namely the magnifying lens found at the trapper's homestead, which can be used outdoors to light fires. As well as that, you have the firestriker which also acts as an alternative to matches. I would like to see the opportunity to find shards of flint or similar alongside the coast, which can be used in combination with the hunting knife as an emergency fire-lighter, at the detriment to the knife's condition...

True, but the magnifying glass is a rare find and if it's not in your game it's of little use. I would like some other way of starting fires that won't run out or can be replaced with stuff that I can forage/ harvest. Firestrikers are not for as far as I know. They used to last 10 fires, but this has been changed with the last updates. Since I haven'd found any firestrikers in my current game I wouldn't know how long they last now, but I'm sure they still run out at some point.

Flint and the hunting knife is a good one option, but should also require a high fire starting skill (it's not easy I can tell you and you need excellent tinder for this to work). Another option would be a fire bow/ fire drill, also requiring a high skill.

[FoneBoneJay]

You dont need tools to start a fire in the real world, and a magnifying glass does you no good for starting fires indoors, it also does you no good that you cant move fire like you can in the real world.

The kind of bow I think TLD means is not the kind you guys have explained abount 1 millions times wont work in the winter its this kind. This kind which is largely unaffected by the weather.

SOURCE: http://www.crossbowcritic.com/best-comp ... ting-bows/

Yes its not native and no you craft it, and when the string breaks you are going to have to make due and try to make a new one, eventually you'd get it if you worked on it long enough. Same with crafting arrows. You'd eventually get it. You might not have the range of synthetic but you'd get 5-15m.

[ErickRedfieldh]

A bow, once broken, cannot be used again. perhaps the bow string is broken, but if the body of the bow is broken, it cannot be used, whatsoever.

Not entirely accurate.....you could theoretically replace the arms on a take-down recurve, which would fall under repair in TLD.

The kind of bow I think TLD means is not the kind you guys have explained abount 1 millions times wont work in the winter its this kind. This kind which is largely unaffected by the weather.

SOURCE: http://www.crossbowcritic.com/best-comp ... ting-bows/

Yes its not native and no you craft it, and when the string breaks you are going to have to make due and try to make a new one, eventually you'd get it if you worked on it long enough. Same with crafting arrows. You'd eventually get it. You might not have the range of synthetic but you'd get 5-15m.

Compounds need to be restrung by professionals or experienced individuals due to the high amount of force on the strings. You NEED a bowpress for this. It's not something you can just unscrew a few screws and off the string comes. Well, yes the string will come off.......and take off or break your fingers, too. And possibly the bow. But mostly your fingers.

I find all the fuss over recurves in the winter to be amusing. Our ancestors used recurve type bows in the winter for centuries. But that argument has it's own thread.....I just wanted to point out here that an amateur who has never restrung a compound bow should not attempt it unsupervised, unless s/he is being trained by an experienced person. Ever. Even in a survival situation. Make a pointy stick, it'll be safer.

I am not opposed to a bow drill. Honestly, if I were in a survival situation where I need fire it is the first thing I'd make instead of wasting my time hunting down matches. Once you've practiced a bit you can make a fire very quickly.

[FoneBoneJay]

Bow drill, instead of matches exactly. You can get a fire going with a bow drill or fire plough reliably indoors, and with matches you are limited to the number of them you have. If Tom Hanks in Castaway who worked as a Fed Ex guy could get a fire going simply from knowing about friction and guessing how to start a fire it can't be that hard to figure out. If the smartest cave man tens of thousands of years ago figured it out before there was language then a guy who survived long enough to get into an airplane and fly it can definitely figure it out if he or she had to, in order to live.

[EternityTide]

When I said a bow, once broken, couldn't be used again, I was talking mainly about self bows and solid recurves. If it's a modular bow that has detachable limbs, fine, that can be repaired, but a self bow or a solid recurve cannot be used once it has been damaged. Otherwise it will most likely explode in your face.

And yes, our ancestors did indeed use recurves in winter for centuries, millenia even, however they likely kept their bows in thick, insulated buckskin (or similar material) tubes. If you leave a bow out in the cold for any length of time, the fibres in the bow will begin to separate, resulting in an overall loss of power, as the bow can no longer store as much potential energy when pulled back due to loss of elasticity.

[elloco999]

You dont need tools to start a fire in the real world, and a magnifying glass does you no good for starting fires indoors, it also does you no good that you cant move fire like you can in the real world.

How do you start a fire without a tool?

[wynarator]

Ever saw Cast Away?

Anyway I hate the idea of bow, since 2012 it feels like almost every game HAS TO HAVE a bow, it's really boring now.

[FoneBoneJay]

You dont need tools to start a fire in the real world, and a magnifying glass does you no good for starting fires indoors, it also does you no good that you cant move fire like you can in the real world.

How do you start a fire without a tool?

Use your imagination. Do you think they invented language without the internet? How about the pyramids. They put their heads together and they said lets fucking do this. How do you start a fire without a tool? You make tools. There are only a few simple machines and you dont need tools to make any of them.

You use a rock as a tool.

This is a drill type fire here. Not even as good as a bow drill but you could do this indoors without too much trouble. Bet as you did these kind of fires you could get one going in 20 or 30 min the majority of the time. Doing this kind of fire outside would be trickier which is why you'd have to have lower rates of success for balance. NO KNIFE NEEDED

Guy doing this in summer

Now if you have a knife make this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiJoZZtU5YE Skip to 9:15 for advanced demonstration. Guy doing this in summer

Probably my favorite video of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBBL3XkfFzA GUY DOING THIS IN WINTER, HES SO GOOD HE GETS IT ON FIRST TRY! Combine this with some char cloth in burn nest, and then birchbark and your success rates would be 60/70/80 outdoors with no wind. In the wind say 20-50% less depending on how shielded your spot was. Point being there are some really good ways and these bow drill ways would be craft able with materials in the world, wood, and a string you could make from cloth or cloth fibers.

Not only this but the drill is re-usable. Not only that but with a crafting workbench we could make this kind of thing with materials already in the game!

The Fire plough is this...

Even simpler friction device. I know they filmed this on the side of a godamn interstate it seems like but you get the idea from this guy from Samoa.

[FoneBoneJay]

You dont need tools to start a fire in the real world, and a magnifying glass does you no good for starting fires indoors, it also does you no good that you cant move fire like you can in the real world.

How do you start a fire without a tool?

By tool I meant matches or firestriker or knife I meant man made tool. Yes you need materials to start a fire. I posted a few videos which may not even be the best demonstrating the two types of firemaking that THIS GAME NEEDS TO INCLUDE to be taken seriously when it comes to being a Survival simulator.

The Fire Plough

Materials

2 pieces of wood (One hardwood and one softwood if possible)

1 rock with edge, preferably with sharp edge

Tinder

Burning wood

Procedure

Use rock on wood to make a groove smaller than the 2nd piece of wood. Hardwood should be used should held and force applied at about a 45 degree angle into the groove made with the rock, a slow but steadily increasing back and forth motion should be made until smoke is present. Once smoke is present then the speed should be increased and the pressure applied to the wood slightly reduced to allow for more heat to build up tinder to ignite. Once a flame is going then add more tinder slowly and then burning wood. Remove the Fire Plough materials for re-use

Crafting Time, less than 10 minutes.

Light time could be 15 minutes per attempt.

Success rate could start at 15-25% per attempt and build to a reliability rate of say 75-85%

The Bow Drill

Basic Crafted (Using a rock to craft)

Should take longer to create and refine and not be quite as efficient as one created using a knife.

Materials

4 pieces of wood (One hardwood and one softwood if possible 3rd & 4th doesn't matter. Fourth must be slightly curved.)

1 String

1 rock with edge, preferably with sharp edge

Tinder

Burning wood

Procedure Select 4 pieces of wood: First is a slightly curves piece about 18-24 inches in length and sturdy enough to hold up to repeated use. Second is a cylindrical piece which is hardwood and will be used to drill into bottom piece. Third and Fourth pieces will be softwood and softwood or hardwood. The Softwood piece will be used on the bottom to generate the ember-ed tinder by enduring the heat generated by the friction of the rotating cylindrical piece and applied pressure.

Craft martial: Use rock to create a hole in softwood for cylindrical piece of hardwood to be inserted for bow drill action. Acceptable criteria of hole, must accommodate the piece of hardwood and prevent it from slipping out. Create a 2nd piece of wood which essentially matches the first piece of wood with a hole to accommodate the other end of the cylindrical piece of wood. Make this piece of wood easy to hold but sturdy enough to hold bear down pressure while holding.

Use rock to also try to make the edges of both ends of cylindrical wood into a cone shape to promote greatest friction at the tip.

Use the string to drive the cylindrical piece by tightly affixing the string on both ends of the slightly curved piece of wood and the cylindrical piece in the middle. Start by slowly rotating the cylindrical piece back and forth with the drill piece so as to heat both the rotating piece and bottom board. Apply gentle but firm pressure to top piece which will also get warm and then hot. Be sure this piece of wood is large enough to support the heat absorption and endure the pressure of the motion.

Crafting Time Could be about 1-2 hours.

Light time could be 10-15 minutes per attempt.

Success Rate Could start at 25-35% and top out at 85-95% per attempt.

Advanced Crafted (Using a knife to refine it)

Should take about one third of the time of using a rock to refine and work slightly better.

Materials

3 pieces of wood (One hardwood and one softwood if possible 3rd doesn't matter.)

1 Knife

Tinder

Burning wood

Crafting Time Could be about 30 min-1 hour.

Light time could be 10-15 minutes per attempt.

Success Rate Could start at 35-50% and top out at 90-100% per attempt.

[ErickRedfieldh]

Before this gets too far out of hand, what I think elloco meant was that once you use something to do something else or assist in as such it becomes a tool. I believe it was meant as sarcasm. I could be wrong though.

[elloco999]

No, not sarcasm. But you're right I do consider both the fire plough and the bow drill to be tools so I was honestly wondering if there are other methods of lighting a fire that would not require something you'd need to make.

I absolutely agree that at least on of these methods should be implemented in TLD, possibly both.

[candytripn]

I agree with the fire making.. When I was younger I went to one of those last chance..er, survival camps, for about 8 months. Anyway.. within a week or so, could get a bow-drill fire going in about a minute and a half. Simple to make, but perhaps foraging for the parts (aside from the shoe/boot lace) have a decent failure rate, that improves. The trough or plow, is definitely a bit harder and takes some time.. while the hand drill.. well, there was a hefty food reward for making one, and I only did it once. Took two of us nearly an hour. Major pain. But I digress..

Noticed cattails in the game (at least I think) and these with some stringy bark, like juniper make awesome nests.. but not sure about what grows in Canada, as we were in the Wa Wa Mountains of Utah during the winter, so Juniper and Sage were a plenty..

dont judge me, I'm an adult now ;p

[FoneBoneJay]

Before this gets too far out of hand, what I think elloco meant was that once you use something to do something else or assist in as such it becomes a tool. I believe it was meant as sarcasm. I could be wrong though.

I guess our definition of tools in the game is different. In the game, a gun, knife, can opener are tools you can find, you can't make them from scratch. They are either in the game or not and they are man-made.

A piece of wood/a rock while used as a tool is essentially a raw material. Now you can of course refine a rock for sharpness and you need to do that to the wood but both of these raw materials are only a tool in the sense you can find them almost anywhere. Now on snow covered ground it would be difficult to find some rocks sure, but near the lakes, you can find rocks no problem at all, also by any of the rock faces you would be able to find rocks that are loose.

A gun, knife, or can opener you simply cannot find anywhere in the natural world only in the man made contamination just like matches. So they are an exhaustible resource. Rocks and wood are not exhaustible in the sense that one man in their lifetime can use all the wood and stone on the planet or in the local area to create fire.

[TLDFAN]

Starting a fire after matches run out is a necessity. Jay has some good real world ideas. I like the fact your can forage for the materials. I like the fact they have low success rates at first. Matches would be one of the first things scavenged had things in this environment been picked over. They are light and they make fire which has a lot of utility therefore fundamentally they have a variety of uses and are valuable.

It is pretty clear that this is missing from the game. If they keep the same scheme for foraging and fire making as exists this would be very easy to implement or mod in if necessary. I really hope the devs don't leave that to the moders.

[elloco999]

A piece of wood or a rock is not a tool. We can agree on that.

And yes, bow drills and fire ploughs should be added to the game pretty much as FoneBoneJay describes. And I agree with candytripn that fire ploughs should have a longer lighting time than a bow drill. I've never actually managed to get a fire going with a fire plough, unlike a bow drill. It's much easier to get enough friction going and to keep it going for long enough.

[brostoevsky]

A piece of wood or a rock is not a tool. We can agree on that.

Just to be pedantic, ANYTHING is a tool if it is used as a tool, including a rock or stick. But I realize we're discussing in the language of the game where Tool is a bit more specific of a meaning.

Fire ploughs and bow drills would be good - fire ploughs for early game (all you need is wood, with the assumption that your character finds a rock laying around) firestarting without matches and bow drills (which would require firewood and gut to craft perhaps?) for the late game.

[elloco999]

I should think that you could use gut for a bow drill, since it's strong enough to use for fishing line or snares. But it could also be possible to craft cordage from cloth, or from some natural material that you need to forage first.

[FoneBoneJay]

Yeah like root. Or one of the many cushion covers we keeping seeing on the beds all over the maps.

[TLDFAN]

A piece of wood or a rock is not a tool. We can agree on that.

Just to be pedantic, ANYTHING is a tool if it is used as a tool, including a rock or stick. But I realize we're discussing in the language of the game where Tool is a bit more specific of a meaning.

Fire ploughs and bow drills would be good - fire ploughs for early game (all you need is wood, with the assumption that your character finds a rock laying around) firestarting without matches and bow drills (which would require firewood and gut to craft perhaps?) for the late game.

I agree that is pedantic But you are right. :mrgreen:

[wynarator]

Oh gods, how much I hate the idea of bow in this game...

[tsotha]

Ever saw Cast Away?

Anyway I hate the idea of bow, since 2012 it feels like almost every game HAS TO HAVE a bow, it's really boring now.

Well, they could go with an atlatl. How many games have that?

[EternityTide]

Why hate the bow? you don't have to use it, and it is a type of weapon used by hunters and sportsman alike in Canada, as far as I am aware, so it's fine.

[wynarator]

I might start another thread about "Why I hate the bow idea" cause lots of people write about it