Ruslan

A few things. (in detail.) Shotguns, crossbows, compass and more.

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So, this is gonna be a bit of a repost from a while ago when i threw some ideas up onto the steam wishlist- but i'm not sure if that one's even still read. Either way it's a good idea to broaden audiences.

I've tried to think of ideas that could be balanced out well. For example, not talking combat shotguns or extremely OP things, but stuff that would fit both thematically and for difficulty. Plus, having at least one "reloadable" ammunition type sounds like a good idea. Easy to implement too, I've done all the thinking for it.


That said, here's an edited repost:

Weapons:
The Shotguns

There's several types, but the one i'm thinking of is an over-under, or double barrel version. This would be the best balanced, as;

- a pump action, tube-fed 8 round rapid fire magazine would likely be way too overpowered for balance, while similarily a single-shot pipe gun (which can really be made out of hardware store materials) is a little too weak, but it is an option if you'd like to have two kinds.

Now, on the other hand, a long-barrel, two-shot shotgun has been a staple for both hunting and survival for a number of years now, but; 

1. It's limited. Two rounds, while each is three or more times as powerful as a single rifle round, is best off limited to only two in order to best keep within offensive, and it's downsides extend further, namely the fact that it'll weigh DOUBLE that of a rifle, possibly even more.

2. It's the most common type you will find, personally though i like the over-under configuration because it rarely gets recognition in games and movies, but is virtually identical no matter which barrel

layout you go for.
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3. Shotgun shells are often reloadable, of course not forever, but it's fairly easy to do this. All one needs is some hard, pellet-form item, or even sometimes any item that will fit into the shell. though for our purposes, i could see it being filled with crushed stone, an item attainable with any stone and a heavy hammer at a workbench, would give the hammer more purpose too! Though, of course you can't be allowed to simply MAKE shells, you have to find shells or their casings, a flare shell could possibly work but be significantly less potent due to small space for both the propellant and the projectile. Could be used for making slugs (a shell with a single large round instead of pellets.)

For pellets, the process is simple, rocks and a heavy hammer. For propellant though, well it's not as commonly seen today, and it's a little weaker than that which we now use, but black powder is fairly simple to be made, just need a little saltpeter (which can be derived from literally salt, found in plants such as sunflower sap, as well as cabbage and celery, or found in bird/bat dung, and the like.) and some sulfur, which i can see as naturally occuring in a cave in the new HRV section, big yellow rock that smells not great, and a hatchet to fracture off pieces (but damaging the hatchet significantly in the process) or a heavy hammer. Crush, mix the two together and you have your propellant.


2. the shot-pistol
I mentioned earlier could be an earlier-game holdout weapon (like comparing the flare pistol to the revolver, where this acts as the early weapon.), basically something to use if a bear charges at you and you don't have a spear, the wide spread also means wolves can't dodge as effectively. Not very pretty, but functional. I'm sure Will could do better, though!
 

hangford-gun.jpg


This is, in effect similar to a modified flare gun, but more resilient. To build it one requires some new items:
1x Gun parts (generic, just a firing pin, trigger, some springs and a grip.)

2x scrap metal
crafting time: 2 days (reasonable amount, with the right tools, check out the home-made weaponry people have built, usually someone more experienced with such would probably take this amount of time.)

there is also the option of making it a slam-fire shotgun, which is merely two pipes that slot into one another, one that sits over the shell, and a screw at the bottom to act as the firing pin. This however would require a lot of new animations for firing, while the other can act as more like a flare pistol or revolver.

all in all, this uses some features already implemented, and gives even more purpose to ones that have either no, or limited purpose.



3. The Hunting Crossbow.

With essentially flak-style ironsights, a crossbow could be another potential "upgrade" to the typical bow and arrow we use currently, it would have to be much more rare than any other type of weapon (in survival runs, spawning in any region, but only in a single spot in the whole run.) maintenance would require the use of an existing bow and arrow, so you'd basically have to craft that. However, what you get is more accurate than either a rifle, or a bow would be, and the range would be drastically increased.

Essentially, it's easier to use, heavier, more precise and has a longer range.

________________________

Scripted vehicle use (aurora only)

1. Blockage removal. 
I've noticed the use of road-rail trucks in sections such as the outside of the carter dam and the maintenance yard. I could see a scripted event where one is used to push a traincar out of a tunnel in order to allow passage, or otherwise use it to push the thing like a battering ram into a blockage, or create a bridge by filling in a large gap with a discarded railway car.

Additionally, in the case of snow-banked vehicles that are locked in place, possibly even having had the rear half crushed under a fallen tree, assuming such is a vehicle with a winch, I could see the potential usage of that winch in order to retrieve items on a cliff, or lower down a cable line without having to carry a mountaineering rope. It's a convenient setpiece for locking down the player's progress, similar to the elevator's breaking in the carter dam. This time you have to wait for the aurora to lower a line.

 

New Clothing:

Maintenance Jumpsuit

During the winter, I used a jumpsuit i found and realized that it works surprisingly well as a windbreaker, it's also a full-body piece of clothing, able to take up both leg and shirt slots, while being relatively warm, though.

New Equipment:

Compass:
Exactly as it sounds. Sometimes it's just good to know which way you're facing, and you can do it with a magnet, needle, cork and a cup.

Binoculars:
It's sometimes hard to tell if that's a rock or a wolf, or a bear.

or a dead wolf or bear.

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Posted (edited)

@Ruslan
All much discussed ideas.  If you use the forum search feature you will find quite a few.  (though it never hurts to refresh an idea or suggestion) :) 

However, I will comment on my feelings on each here as well.

Compass... would likely never work because of the geo-magnetic event that kicked off this quiet apocalypse.  Story mode explains this quite a bit, so check that out if you haven't yet.

Binoculars: I don't really see much need for them in this game... I always try to express that a sense of vulnerability is part of the flavor of this game.  I would hate to ever feel like I was really safe.  I rather like it as it is... you have to travel cautiously and move deliberately.  Being able to spot danger easier, instead of keeping your wits about you would take something away from this game that I would very much like to keep.

...More and more weapons: Frankly with the addition of the Revolver (and the Bear Spear, as soon as they are done reworking it), we already have all the weapons/defenses we need.  Once again, I am concerned that if there are too many weapons in this game that it will undermine what the game is.  We already have: Rocks, knives, hatches, heavy hammers, pry bars, Snares, Decoys, Torches, Flairs, Bow/Arrows, Flair Gun, Rifle, and Revolver...(and as I mention before we will eventually have the Bear Spear too!)

Edited by ManicManiac
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12 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@Ruslan
All much discussed ideas.  If you use the forum search feature you will find quite a few.  (though it never hurts to refresh an idea or suggestion) :) 

However, I will comment on my feelings on each here as well.

Compass... would likely never work because of the geo-magnetic event that kicked off this quiet apocalypse.  Story mode explains this quite a bit, so check that out if you haven't yet.

Binoculars: I don't really see much need for them in this game... I always try to express that a sense of vulnerability is part of the flavor of this game.  I would hate to ever feel like I was really safe.  I rather like it as it is... you have to travel cautiously and move deliberately.  Being able to spot danger easier, instead of keeping your wits about you would take something away from this game that I would very much like to keep.

...More and more weapons: Frankly with the addition of the Revolver (and the Bear Spear, as soon as they are done reworking it), we already have all the weapons/defenses we need.  Once again, I am concerned that if there are too many weapons in this game that it will undermine what the game is.  We already have: Rocks, knives, hatches, heavy hammers, pry bars, Snares, Decoys, Torches, Flairs, Bow/Arrows, Flair Gun, Rifle, and Revolver...(and as I mention before we will eventually have the Bear Spear too!)

D'aw sorry, I kinda figured it had to be discussed, i just wasn't sure in how much detail. If anything though, i'd like to see a double-barreled bear banger. It's unique enough being the only thing you can reload yourself, as a normal bullet has to be forged in a press, stamped and machined to a perfect shape. As for the list given- Well, we really only have the flare gun, revolver, rifle, and a bow and arrow, as well as stones for offence/defence, the bear spear as far as i know works ONLY on bears. Otherwise, the things listed are more circumstantial for when you're already in the process of being mauled, you can't equip them for use as weapons otherwise, or use them to tear open crates like gordon freeman.  I don't want to see too many added either, but a double-barrel would be the most sensible, and probably balanced solution.

it's why i specifically stated a double-barrel as opposed to a pump-action. Shotguns are something you would find too, as they were one of the first types of firearm used for it. Historically, we had the elephant gun- which was a really large bore rifle, that turned into the shotgun, and shells were made of birdshot, buckshot, and varying pellet sizes for whatever you were hunting. 

As for the compass bit... Actually i hadn't considered that it might mess with an analog compass, now that you mention it I do understand that though.  Shame, but some form of direction-finding would have been nice. While I reference the environment, as a new player, or when in a big white field i find myself often at a loss for where i'm facing. Binoculars could mitigate this by allowing one to see distant landmarks.

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@Ruslan
Well like I said, it's never bad to revisit an idea.  Especially if you notice that it's one that hasn't been discussed in a while.  So there's no issue there.  :) 

4 minutes ago, Ruslan said:

As for the list given- Well, we really only have the flare gun, revolver, rifle, and a bow and arrow, as well as stones for offence/defence, the bear spear as far as i know works ONLY on bears. Otherwise, the things listed are more circumstantial for when you're already in the process of being mauled, you can't equip them for use as weapons otherwise, or use them to tear open crates like gordon freeman.

Which is why I say, that I am concerned about having too many weapons in the game... I don't think we really want to run around feeling like Gordon Freeman in this game, because it's not that kind of game.  :) 

Also, it goes back again to that feeling of vulnerability.  If you have too many weapons, you end up feeling like you are safe...on top of the food chain again.  I'd argue that the heart of this game is feeling isolated and vulnerable.  That we don't have everything we need to be on top... that we have to struggle, move carefully, and gauge risk and reward.  I tend to think that adding a more and more weapons will take away from that.  Which is why I don't think we need any more of them.

The reason why we haven't gotten the bear spear in survival yet... I suspect is because they are trying to figure out a way for it to work and be useful on other hostile wild life as well as bears... but honestly I wouldn't mind if it was only for bear, because we have more than enough to deal with everything else already anyways.

As for your reducing the list, keep in mind that I listed everything that can be used as a weapon both active and defensive to help illustrate the point that we already have a fairly large number of options for our survivor.  I think most of this community does not want this game to turn into a shooter.  There are other games for that.  :)

I personally like feeling the struggle of not having what I need to survive, and having to get creative with what I do have to get the most out of it... I like that touch of anxiety going up over a hill or going around a blind corner.  I don't want to be able to just run around the world with impunity... I just think it would take away from the game.

So then back to Binoculars... once again that feeling of vulnerability, I think is part of the heart of this game... and getting turned around and lost is a part of that.  Now those of us who have play enough on each map - it's nearly impossible for them to get lost nowadays. But still, some of the best moments in the game for me were getting lost and having to get creative in how to orient myself and get my bearings.  We don't need binoculars for that :)  Use sun rise and sun set... you can see pretty much any land mark from most distances as long as you have a line of sight.  Binoculars won't really help with any of that.  A lot of the fun for me has always been exploring... and being able to scout from a distance... while perhaps handy, would take away from some of the danger of traveling and I wouldn't be in favor of that.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your ideas... I'm just trying to give you my perspective on them.  It's your wish list post after all.  All ideas are welcomed, but all ideas will get discussed :D 

 

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7 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@RuslanAlso, it goes back again to that feeling of vulnerability.  If you have too many weapons, you end up feeling like you are safe...on top of the food chain again.  I'd argue that the heart of this game is feeling isolated and vulnerable.  That we don't have everything we need to be on top... that we have to struggle, move carefully, and gauge risk and reward.  I tend to think that adding a more and more weapons will take away from that.  Which is why I don't think we need any more of them.

 

I agree, sorta. Think of it this way. Carrying all equippable, offensive weaponry would seriously limit your carrying capacity. This is also why i said the shotgun would be roughly twice as heavy. I find myself leaving behind my weapons except when i need them. All I take with me is the revolver, the rifle (or shotgun...) for hunting. This lets me explore more and carry anything i find back, so I'd argue the main limiting factor in this is perhaps the carry weight. Nobody will carry every single kind, i don't want it to be a shooter either, but everyone will choose their favorite. For me it'd be a crossbow. I quite enjoy sniping. even when i go hunting i'm still never entirely safe... I've had bears sneak up on me while stalking a wolf. It's not fun.

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3 minutes ago, Ruslan said:

Nobody will carry every single kind (of weapon)...

:D Don't be so sure... players in this community would find away, they always find away. :D 

Ultimately though, I trust Hinterland...  I trust they will keep the spirit of the game intact.  If they do add more weapons, then fine... then like I always say, it will come down to player choice.  In that if I don't like a particular thing, I just choose not to use it. 

But, in the context of wish lists and brainstorming, I do tend to offer the perspective of caution in terms of the community clamoring for more of "X, Y, or Z" and keep in mind how that might affect the core / feel / heart & soul of a game that we love.  That's all. :) 

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Agreed. I'm not looking or hoping for 16 customizable variations of rifles or something fully automatic. A shotgun and crossbow are just two equally-common weapons one might find for hunting, each with their own unique strengths over a rifle or revolver. They give players who choose to use them the opportunity to do so. Personally i'd replace the rifle with either. Sure it's been handy, but a crossbow has reusable, craftable ammo, and a shotgun has a wider spread so wolves cannot dodge your shots as they seem to be doing, as well as being reloadable, but considerably more difficult. A shell would max get three uses, initial, and two loads after, before becoming completely unuseable.

But, yes. Options is all i'm looking at. The long dark has many, and that along with its story is what i love about it- You can go anywhere just about, so it's best to let you survive your way. 

I'm glad to see perspectives on the subject at hand though, sometimes we do need to take a step back and re-evaluate.

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11 minutes ago, Ruslan said:

But, yes. Options is all i'm looking at.

And I definitely agree that having more options is generally more fun than having too few. :)
You do pose some neat ideas, and thank you for outlining them in a thoughtful way so that the community can look at your ideas and discuss them.

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5 hours ago, Ruslan said:

New Equipment:

 

Compass:
Exactly as it sounds. Sometimes it's just good to know which way you're facing, and you can do it with a magnet, needle, cork and a cup.

Binoculars:
It's sometimes hard to tell if that's a rock or a wolf, or a bear.

or a dead wolf or bear.

i agree for ninoculars and compass but other weapons will not be too much? the crossboy will only be a better bow ( the bow already works great) and the pistol ... i dont think that its a grat idea we already have a revolver and a flare gun. you say that this is for the early game but how the devs will be able to set this weapon only for the ealry game?

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58 minutes ago, oplli said:

i agree for ninoculars and compass but other weapons will not be too much? the crossboy will only be a better bow ( the bow already works great) and the pistol ... i dont think that its a grat idea we already have a revolver and a flare gun. you say that this is for the early game but how the devs will be able to set this weapon only for the ealry game?

Simply put, it's not exactly "early" early. Think of it like the  progression from flare gun to rifle in story mode. Essentially, it would be maybe an early find in episode 3 (as an example, only) and would be more powerful than the revolver, but not nearly as much as a double-barrel. As well as having atrocious range (comparable to the flare gun, the spread would be so wide on a short barrel it would only  be instantly lethal within the first five to ten meters.)

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You get a LIKE from me! I have ALWAYS wanted a Shotgun and a Pistol! well okay and a Crossbow too! I would also like to see Binoculars and maybe a Compass as well! :D

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I would prefer to see the rifle and pistol removed from the game.  Having to make a weapon from resources in the wilds makes sense, guns and ammunition all over the place would be unlikely.  A bow and arrow is just as effective and considerably lighter.

I'd hate to see the game morph into a gun-game for fanboys.

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I would support shotgun as defence weapon. Especially when you can find only one type of long gun in your game (rifle or shotgun, not both) so it would affect your hunting strategy.

1 hour ago, peteloud said:

I would prefer to see the rifle and pistol removed from the game.  Having to make a weapon from resources in the wilds makes sense, guns and ammunition all over the place would be unlikely.  A bow and arrow is just as effective and considerably lighter.

I'd hate to see the game morph into a gun-game for fanboys.

Why? Guns are not unicorns, especially in rural areas. I am oppose to add military grade stuff, but decent hunting rifle, or shotgun isnt immersion breaking. MAybe i would make ammo even more scarce (probably only near the gun). I dont like standart Interloper for that. I preffer Interloper with enabled rifle. Depending only on crafted weapons like in Stone Age, thats boring. Or i would add as way to survive in wilderness, with no civilisation, but keep scarce fireamrs in "civilised" areas.

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Posted (edited)

In my opinion, we already have one more weapon in the game than we need. Personally I see no need for the revolver.

Edited by Hawk
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I see more use for revolver than for rifle. Because i use fireamrs as selfdefence tool. But i would preffer a shotgun with a few cartridges than revolver with 50 bullets.

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