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Walking around this unnecessary argument, Id like to return back to the topic at hand. :) 


I have much to say about this, I could get into how this suggestion suggests a weapon that would have quite possibly more features than the recently added Revolver, which is a weapon that has been on the development shelf since alpha (the files existed for it since long before Story mode). While I agree the feature of wind-dependent weapon is very interesting, I don't believe it is worth the great amount of work it would have to be put into it to see it added. Because, lets take a look at what is actualy important - game relevance:

This weapon game-wise is almost entirely identical to Distress pistol in what it does. It is a mid-to-close defensive weapon which is light to carry, designed to scare the animal away instead of actually killing it (before you argument that Distress pistol can kill, I think its safe to say it is not intended to, only as a "one in a thousand" kinda shot, sadly most people are so proficient with the gun that they developed hunting techniques to use distress pistol. If anything, I would rather the devs removed this feature from the Distress pistol instead, make it 100% non-lethal, because it would make the game more challenging). The only "relevant difference" I would see in this Bear spray and the Distress Pistol is that Bear Spray comes in pre-loaded with 2 shots, and the wind feature with added conditions (condition pain is fine cause it is already in the game, I imagine the added visual blur would be treated by potable water, to wash out the irritant from the eyes). The loper argument is moot because Distress Pistol spawns in Interloper as well.

I also suspect that most of you have realized this weapon idea is basically a copy of Distress Pistol but no one said anything out of fear. Pity what this place has become. 

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Let us please try to be polite to each other. You don’t need to agree but let’s at least treat each other with empathy and kindness. 

It is entirely appropriate to say “I would rather see X than Y” however in general let’s keep this focused on the original topic of Bear Spray. 

Than you. 

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I'm liking pepper spray, especially if it would also work on the moose.  Not being able to line-of-sight that guy was a majorly difficult lesson for me in a recent HRV spawn.  If LOS'ing with trees and seemingly inaccessible terrain are ineffectual  strategies, seems appropriate that there might be another option for times when we don't want to put either of the heavy hitters down but we don't want to get hammered by them either.

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I think I have the same opinion on this as I expressed on the other thread.  It's just something else to carry at this point.  If I didn't have a distress pistol, I might use it; but once I acquire the distress pistol, I would probably just not bother carrying it any more since the distress pistol does the same job and is more versatile (can kill) and would have a longer range for scaring off predators of different types than bear spray would.

In addition, Raphael indicated that additional spawns for the revolver were added in at the expense of some rifle spawns.  This would probably mean that bear spray, if added in, would mean less spawns of flare shells, which would nerf that weapon and I'd rather continue to use the distress pistol.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, FrozenCorpse said:

I'm liking pepper spray, especially if it would also work on the moose.  Not being able to line-of-sight that guy was a majorly difficult lesson for me in a recent HRV spawn.  If LOS'ing with trees and seemingly inaccessible terrain are ineffectual  strategies, seems appropriate that there might be another option for times when we don't want to put either of the heavy hitters down but we don't want to get hammered by them either.

Looking into it before I posted the thread, I saw adverts that said that their bear Spray would work on Moose, and other blogs, forums, and Fish & Wildlife type sites that said it *might* work on a moose.  Situational, I am guessing, same as with a bear, or wolf, or cougar. You need to aim it, take into account any wind or other weather effects, and make sure the large cone spray envelops the animal's face, to effectively make them get it in their eyes, mouth and nose. I kind of see it like using a flare or torch with a wolf. Timing and placement effects whether the animal is stopped by it or not. the chance of failure, if not used *properly*. If they are already in full attack charge, should it stop the charge, or does it need to be used in that momentary pause, just before the animal comes for you? (I think it should be the second, more than the first.)

5 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

In addition, Raphael indicated that additional spawns for the revolver were added in at the expense of some rifle spawns.  This would probably mean that bear spray, if added in, would mean less spawns of flare shells, which would nerf that weapon and I'd rather continue to use the distress pistol.

That is true, but he also said the rifle and revolver spawns are tied together in the settings. If they can separate the revolver spawn settings, and make them not tied to rifle spawns, it could be possible that bear spray could have its own settings. And who's to say it would affect flare shells? Maybe it would be tied into BRA more loosely, and mean you find a few less cans of sardines, flares, chocolate bars or such, with no effect on the distress pistol or flare shell spawns. People want other weapons added. Would adding any other weapon, like a slingshot, affect only the availability of flare shells? 

Edited by ThePancakeLady

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4 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

"..and Fish & Wildlife type sites that said it *might* work on a moose.  Situational, I am guessing, same as with a bear, or wolf, or cougar."

I think, somewhere down the line, you might see some kind of spray.  I remember Raphael van Lierop commented something about cougars.. Maybe in the Milton Mailbag? Cute and cuddly and like to be petted maybe?  Oh, I can't remember.  But he seemed somewhat intrigued by all the fun possibilities of adding them to the game (that was my take-away from it more or less..).  If they were to be added, a multi-purpose spray would be useful...  I could totally see myself getting jacked up trying to use it though, then having to walk around half blind for a half hour game-time waiting for my vision to clear...

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25 minutes ago, FrozenCorpse said:

I think, somewhere down the line, you might see some kind of spray.  I remember Raphael van Lierop commented something about cougars.. Maybe in the Milton Mailbag? Cute and cuddly and like to be petted maybe?  Oh, I can't remember.  But he seemed somewhat intrigued by all the fun possibilities of adding them to the game (that was my take-away from it more or less..).  If they were to be added, a multi-purpose spray would be useful...  I could totally see myself getting jacked up trying to use it though, then having to walk around half blind for a half hour game-time waiting for my vision to clear...

We do have the Pain affliction, and the blurred vision camera effect already. The only thing they would need to add is a "breathing difficulty" affliction, since it will make your nose and throat irritated. Even the lower potency pepper spray used on human for self defense makes you cry and have trouble breathing for a while. Used to hate getting calls as a medic where the dispatcher said "pepper spray deployed", made the back of the bus feel much smaller and less well ventilated, lol. 

my only concern would be people using it to spray bunnies... maybe it should make them give you the negative effects as well, if you picked up a sprayed rabbit carcass, or a stunned bunny you sprayed. It should not make the bunnies easier to stun with stones though... that would be a bit OP. Stunning an entire fluffle with one shot would make rabbits even easier to catch than they already are.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

My only concern would be people using it to spray bunnies... maybe it should make them give you the negative effects as well, if you picked up a sprayed rabbit carcass, or a stunned bunny you sprayed. It should not make the bunnies easier to stun with stones though... that would be a bit OP. Stunning an entire fluffle with one shot would make rabbits even easier to catch than they already are.

Well, rabbits need to be much harder to get close to in general, I think. I play with animal detection distances maxed out, and I can get within about 6 yards of a rabbit if I'm crouched. I don't think this is right, or good for the gameplay.

If they introduced a bear spray, they could also adjust the animal behaviour a bit so that you simply can't get into range of a bunny in order to do that.

 

Edit: The other thing is, I would expect bear spray to be pretty rare (at least as rare as stims, for example), so are you really going to want to use something that's in relatively short supply and finite just for the sake of 400-500 calories?

Edited by Pillock
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Looking into it before I posted the thread, I saw adverts that said that their bear Spray would work on Moose, and other blogs, forums, and Fish & Wildlife type sites that said it *might* work on a moose.  Situational, I am guessing, same as with a bear, or wolf, or cougar. You need to aim it, take into account any wind or other weather effects, and make sure the large cone spray envelops the animal's face, to effectively make them get it in their eyes, mouth and nose. I kind of see it like using a flare or torch with a wolf. Timing and placement effects whether the animal is stopped by it or not. the chance of failure, if not used *properly*. If they are already in full attack charge, should it stop the charge, or does it need to be used in that momentary pause, just before the animal comes for you? (I think it should be the second, more than the first.)

That is true, but he also said the rifle and revolver spawns are tied together in the settings. If they can separate the revolver spawn settings, and make them not tied to rifle spawns, it could be possible that bear spray could have its own settings. And who's to say it would affect flare shells? Maybe it would be tied into BRA more loosely, and mean you find a few less cans of sardines, flares, chocolate bars or such, with no effect on the distress pistol or flare shell spawns. People want other weapons added. Would adding any other weapon, like a slingshot, affect only the availability of flare shells? 

Of course, the settings don't have to be  tied together,  but that they tied to the two (rifle and revolved) together could be a result of a balancing philosophy.   Since bear spray and the flare gun would serve such a similar purpose, a reduction in flare shells to add shots of bear spray would ultimately leave the player with about the same number of total shots for dealing with bears and the other larger predators in the game (if they make it effective on moose); particularly on Interloper difficulty where neither rifle or revolver spawn.  My preference is just to stick to the one weapon

Edited by UpUpAway95

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1 hour ago, ThePancakeLady said:

"..my only concern would be people using it to spray bunnies..."

It's possible the effects would blow around just above the bunnies heads so it would prove useless on them...  In terms of code, deploying spray in proximity to bunnies could result in all rabbits in the area just scattering quickly and not returning for a long time...

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1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Of course, the settings don't have to be  tied together,  but that they tied to the two (rifle and revolved) together could be a result of a balancing philosophy.   Since bear spray and the flare gun would serve such a similar purpose, a reduction in flare shells to add shots of bear spray would ultimately leave the player with about the same number of total shots for dealing with bears and the other larger predators in the game (if they make it effective on moose); particularly on Interloper difficulty where neither rifle or revolver spawn.  My preference is just to stick to the one weapon

I think of it more like a flare, not the distress pistol. Distress pistol does harm, can kill. Flares and Bear Spray do not. Of course, that could mean less flares found, which in Stalker and below is not too big of a deal. i tend to have so many that I leave them stashed all over the place, don;t use them very often. For a Loper, it could well be a bigger deal. If their spawn rate is tied to BRA, that could be overcome by adjusting that setting in the Custom Settings toolbox. I would not want to see bear Spray be a terribly common item anyway, it should not be commonplace in any mode. Not as uncommon as the distress pistol (only 2 in the entire world), but not as common as the rifle in Stalker and below, or as common as flares in any mode. but... Loper is supposed to be the "extreme" mode, more difficult than any other mode. The balancing would not be easy to make pleasing for everyone, for sure. But, what is, in any vanilla mode in this game? And no one could or would force you to carry or use it, if you preferred to carry the distress pistol instead. Still not sure why you think it can only be tied to flare shell spawn numbers, it does not have to be. Comparing it to the distress pistol and declaring it to be "the same' feels off as well. It isn't the same, it cannot kill or injure beyond a temporary affliction, resolved by itself over time.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

I think of it more like a flare, not the distress pistol. Distress pistol does harm, can kill. Flares and Bear Spray do not. Of course, that could mean less flares found, which in Stalker and below is not too big of a deal. i tend to have so many that I leave them stashed all over the place, don;t use them very often. For a Loper, it could well be a bigger deal. If their spawn rate is tied to BRA, that could be overcome by adjusting that setting in the Custom Settings toolbox. I would not want to see bear Spray be a terribly common item anyway, it should not be commonplace in any mode. Not as uncommon as the distress pistol (only 2 in the entire world), but not as common as the rifle in Stalker and below, or as common as flares in any mode. but... Loper is supposed to be the "extreme" mode, more difficult than any other mode. The balancing would not be easy to make pleasing for everyone, for sure. But, what is, in any vanilla mode in this game? And no one could or would force you to carry or use it, if you preferred to carry the distress pistol instead. Still not sure why you think it can only be tied to flare shell spawn numbers, it does not have to be. Comparing it to the distress pistol and declaring it to be "the same' feels off as well. It isn't the same, it cannot kill or injure beyond a temporary affliction, resolved by itself over time.

If the effectiveness of bear spray is equivalent to the flare in game, it's not even worth picking up.  Starting up a camp fire works better.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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Posted (edited)

Another interesting aspect to this might be whether or not you would be able to use the bear spray in a struggle. It might seem odd if you couldn't, but it would probably present a bunch of knock-on issues of you could?

Edited by Pillock
My phone can't spell

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48 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

If the effectiveness of bear spray is equivalent to the flare in game, it's not even worth picking up.  Starting up a camp fire works better.

bears are honey badgers when it comes to fire, have you forgotten? They just don't care about it, and will charge right through a burning campfire. Campfires are effective only on wolf and moose (i think), and only if they have direct LoS on it. Bears are deterred by distress pistol shots. Revolver or rifle shots only have a chance of scaring wolves, deer and bears, not sure if the moose even cares about a warning shot, not 100% sure bears care about them either. Flares and torches only scare wolves, *sometimes* if used properly, with the right timing.

 

Bear Spray would be an effective deterrent against all 3, if used properly. Rather than needing a specialized tool or weapon that works on one but not the other(s). Meaning 1 tool/weapon to carry, instead of 2 or 3, and no time waiting to see if your fire starting succeeds or fails at the worst possible time. And no wasted matches or condition loss on a firestriker.

16 minutes ago, Pillock said:

Another interesting aspect to this might be whether or not you would be able to use the bear spray in a struggle. It might seem odd if you couldn't, but it would probably present a bunch of knock-on issues of you could?

Not sure about that. Revolver *sometimes* can be shot during a struggle, but haven't played with it enough to see what the trigger for using it is. I would say trying to use Bear Spray during a struggle may hurt you more than it hurts them, since it would not likely stop the attack if they already have teeth in you, and you would get a full dose at close range like that. I see Bear Spray as a deterrent, to prevent the attack ever happening, not as a weapon to be used during an attack or mauling. A chance to stop the charge from happening, and give you a few seconds to run for your life, or grab an assault weapon instead, if you decide you *must* kill the animal as it flees.

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1 hour ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Revolver *sometimes* can be shot during a struggle, but haven't played with it enough to see what the trigger for using it is.

Get the struggle meter about 3/4 full, and the "Take Shot" option appears for RMB.  Or you can keep banging on the pooch with the butt of your gun until the meter is maxed, and win the struggle that way.  Like if you don't want to use ammo.

Although frankly that seems a little unrealistic if you ask me.  I wouldn't lead in with hammering it in the noodle for a while, then shoot.  I'd lead off with shooting, and bang on it if I ran out of ammo.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ThePancakeLady said:

bears are honey badgers when it comes to fire, have you forgotten? They just don't care about it, and will charge right through a burning campfire. Campfires are effective only on wolf and moose (i think), and only if they have direct LoS on it. Bears are deterred by distress pistol shots. Revolver or rifle shots only have a chance of scaring wolves, deer and bears, not sure if the moose even cares about a warning shot, not 100% sure bears care about them either. Flares and torches only scare wolves, *sometimes* if used properly, with the right timing.

 

Bear Spray would be an effective deterrent against all 3, if used properly. Rather than needing a specialized tool or weapon that works on one but not the other(s). Meaning 1 tool/weapon to carry, instead of 2 or 3, and no time waiting to see if your fire starting succeeds or fails at the worst possible time. And no wasted matches or condition loss on a firestriker.

Not sure about that. Revolver *sometimes* can be shot during a struggle, but haven't played with it enough to see what the trigger for using it is. I would say trying to use Bear Spray during a struggle may hurt you more than it hurts them, since it would not likely stop the attack if they already have teeth in you, and you would get a full dose at close range like that. I see Bear Spray as a deterrent, to prevent the attack ever happening, not as a weapon to be used during an attack or mauling. A chance to stop the charge from happening, and give you a few seconds to run for your life, or grab an assault weapon instead, if you decide you *must* kill the animal as it flees.

Bears aren't overtly detered by flares either as I recall... that's why I said if bear spray is an equivalent to a flare, it's not worth picking up, since flares don't work that well on wolves or moose either.  Starting a campfire at least works well on wolves and can be effective on moose.  Bear spray would be more equivalent to the distress pistol... and the distress pistol would have a better range and can kill.  That's why I think they might balance bear spray with flare shells rather than flares (which is the alternative balancer you suggested, not I).  My preference is still to stick with just the distress pistol.  If shells are too rare, they should add more flare shells rather than add shots of bear spray.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Bears aren't overtly detered by flares either as I recall... that's why I said if bear spray is an equivalent to a flare, it's not worth picking up, since flares don't work that well on wolves or moose either.  Starting a campfire at least works well on wolves and can be effective on moose.  Bear spray would be more equivalent to the distress pistol... and the distress pistol would have a better range and can kill.  That's why I think they might balance bear spray with flare shells rather than flares (which is the alternative balancer you suggested, not I).  My preference is still to stick with just the distress pistol.  If shells are too rare, they should add more flare shells rather than add shots of bear spray.

Lol. Okay, we can agree to disagree. I rarely, if ever use the distress pistol, even after going through lengths to get the dang thing. Bear Spray would be my preferred deterrent, a non-lethal one, like I expressed in my original topic post. And how they would balance out spawns is up to them, if they decide to add it someday. :)

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Lol. Okay, we can agree to disagree. I rarely, if ever use the distress pistol, even after going through lengths to get the dang thing. Bear Spray would be my preferred deterrent, a non-lethal one, like I expressed in my original topic post. And how they would balance out spawns is up to them, if they decide to add it someday. :)

Lol.  It's not an argument.  I'm just stating my own personal preference and my perrsonal reasons for having that preference.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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37 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Lol.  It's not an argument.  I'm just stating my own personal preference and my perrsonal reasons for having that preference.

And that is a good thing. Devs need to get input from as many people, with as many opinions as possible. I do wish some new voices would come in and give theirs though. Fairly small group here, the "usuals" among us, who tend to be most vocal. And who said anything about an argument (besides you)? Not I. I just said we can agree to disagree. Differing opinions does not an argument make. We are discussing. My idea, so of course I will defend it, since it is... my idea and opinions in the original topic post. :)

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1 minute ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Lol! I obviously did not search back far enough. :)

It's okay ☺️😊

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Talking to my friend MacGayver about this pepper spray idea.  

Cayenne.thumb.png.df9d285a75c6e067ffcf1865a8dfceba.png

He said all we need is a fire extinguisher hundred packs of beef jerky and some bubble gum.

 

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2 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Lol! The bubble gum would be the hardest thing to find... ;)

It's in the accessory pack of every MRE ;)

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