Sign in to follow this  
stratvox

Best video card

Recommended Posts

A brief conversation I had with @jeffpeng has led me to wonder... which video card is best for this game, esp. under linux? AMD or nVidia?

I found this article from today that intimates we linux players may see some relief in August wrt the supported shader set: 

Quote

For Mesa 19.1, the Intel driver (and Mesa OpenGL drivers at large) are still bound to OpenGL 4.5 compliance rather than OpenGL 4.6. But it's looking like for Mesa 19.2 in August we'll finally see OpenGL 4.6 officially exposed for the Intel open-source OpenGL driver.

Also jeffpeng, I've found that using the "workaround command options" (i.e. -force-glcore42 -force-clamped) improve the z-fighting issue on the terrain significantly. While I'm at it, I also experimented with the -forcevulkan option, and while it's still somewhat broken, is significantly improved from where it was around the turn of the year. It's actually playable now, though I've found the inputs to be somewhat laggy (just enough milliseconds to notice) and from my observations it mostly looks like the stuff that figures out the shadows is what's causing the glitches I saw.

So, no matter what your platform... what do you think? Which is the good family of video cards for The Long Dark?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I'm no longer a Linux user (I was for a good 10 years but frankly just got sick of constant compatibility issues with basically everything) but I've only ever played TLD using nvidia and it's been pretty solid.  I started with a GTX 970, then upgraded to a GTX 1080 TI, and the game runs perfectly at 4k with all settings maxed.

I have noticed that outdoor shadows cast by the sun kind of vibrate a bit while you're walking, then settle down again when you stand still.  It's subtle, but there, and I chalk it up to how Unity handles shadows.  It's also probably more visible because I'm playing in 4k.  Either way, I don't think it has anything to do with nvidia.  It's really only noticeable when walking through a dense forest.  That birch forest near the PV barn for instance.  It doesn't seem to happen with shadows cast by any other light source--it's specifically the sun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

Well I'm no longer a Linux user (I was for a good 10 years but frankly just got sick of constant compatibility issues with basically everything)

See, that's why I stopped using Windows. Their terminal compatibility has sucked since forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

I have noticed that outdoor shadows cast by the sun kind of vibrate a bit while you're walking, then settle down again when you stand still.  It's subtle, but there, and I chalk it up to how Unity handles shadows.  It's also probably more visible because I'm playing in 4k.  Either way, I don't think it has anything to do with nvidia.  It's really only noticeable when walking through a dense forest.  That birch forest near the PV barn for instance.  It doesn't seem to happen with shadows cast by any other light source--it's specifically the sun.

My video card is Intel and also I noticed about the 'shadows vibrations', which is quite annoying. I thought it was a problem of my Intel graphics (integrated GPU's are weak compared with video cards with dedicated memory) but now, reading this post, I see it happens with other operative systems or stronger video cards like nvidia... so yes, looks like is not a fault of the video card.

And now that this was mentioned and this thread is under the "technical discussion" forum, I don't know if it is possible to have some 'feedback' about this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2019 at 2:37 PM, ajb1978 said:

I was for a good 10 years but frankly just got sick of constant compatibility issues with basically everything

 

On 5/27/2019 at 2:51 PM, stratvox said:

See, that's why I stopped using Windows. Their terminal compatibility has sucked since forever.

Story of my life. I'm a Gentoo since 2004. That's 15 years of compiling and patching and getting things to work. Got sick of having to put in real work to get even simple applications to run sometimes. But Windows is just horrible for productivity, at least development stuff (PHP/Java-WebDev). That MS didn't manage to get a decent Posix compatible terminal to run in 2019 is just ridiculous. So after half a year of trying to actually work on windows (and see my efficiency drop significantly) I'm back on Gentoo and will go dual boot again. Speaking of dual-boot: Is there some Kexec-esque way to chainload Linux from Windows?

On 5/27/2019 at 6:03 AM, stratvox said:

Also jeffpeng, I've found that using the "workaround command options" (i.e. -force-glcore42 -force-clamped) improve the z-fighting issue on the terrain significantly.

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion, but not enough so that I don't get headaches. Litereally.

About what's actually the best graphics card for TLD... I guess in terms of performance it doesn't matter a whole lot. Maybe compatibility. The entire glcore42 fix is only required for nvidia cards. In gerenal AMDs implementation of GL is pretty much to the letter, opposed to nvidia that never really cared about GL compliance. Plus I probably don't have to tell you about the joys of running nvidias amazing proprietary driver on Linux. Sadly I have no AMD card here to test this out, and I kinda don't wanna run buying one with the entire Navi thing unfolding as we speak.
 

On 5/27/2019 at 2:55 PM, LilWolf said:

My video card is Intel and also I noticed about the 'shadows vibrations', which is quite annoying. I thought it was a problem of my Intel graphics (integrated GPU's are weak compared with video cards with dedicated memory) but now, reading this post, I see it happens with other operative systems or stronger video cards like nvidia... so yes, looks like is not a fault of the video card.

That indeed makes me believe that Unity/TLD (most likely Unity) is at fault here. No matter GL42, GL45 or GL46, intels implementations are usually spot on. I would be totally happy if HL could finally move to a non-alpha version of Unity.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2019 at 6:03 AM, stratvox said:

For Mesa 19.1, the Intel driver (and Mesa OpenGL drivers at large) are still bound to OpenGL 4.5 compliance rather than OpenGL 4.6. But it's looking like for Mesa 19.2 in August we'll finally see OpenGL 4.6 officially exposed for the Intel open-source OpenGL driver.

Not going to improve the nvida situation at all. nvidia is shipping their own Frankensteinish Mesa stack, and as mentioned above whatever they are implementing really isn't compliant to anything, really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/27/2019 at 8:37 AM, ajb1978 said:

I have noticed that outdoor shadows cast by the sun kind of vibrate a bit while you're walking, then settle down again when you stand still.

 

On 5/27/2019 at 8:55 AM, LilWolf said:

My video card is Intel and also I noticed about the 'shadows vibrations', which is quite annoying.

That's not what I'm talking about.  I'll attach a video of what I'm talking about, you'll see me showing it when looking at far terrain and then at near terrain.

54 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

I'm a Gentoo since 2004. That's 15 years of compiling and patching and getting things to work. Got sick of having to put in real work to get even simple applications to run sometimes.

That's why I run Ubuntu. The graphics-driver and oibaf ppa (depending on your hardware) make dealing with the video cards a snap. You can get a functional desktop going in five to ten minutes on modern hardware. I deal with enough machines (I sysadmin a unix shop in my day job) that I don't want to have to deal with all that stuff. Just get it in, know the packages I need for the tools the devs need to do their work so I can get them in too, and create/manage the accounts on the network services.

In production environments most of my history has been Solaris and Red Hat via Centos, but in my current position we're using ubuntu server side too. I'm getting myself up to speed on running Ubuntu in MaaS mode, and using the lxd version of containers and kubernetes for HA stuff... but the current production environment is standard ubuntu server with lxd. I'm looking into the MaaS/lxd/kubernetes stack to be able to expand our services out onto cloud providers for short term capacity issues, while guaranteeing that there's no question about which version of the data is canonical.

54 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Speaking of dual-boot: Is there some Kexec-esque way to chainload Linux from Windows?

Not that I'm aware of. I've had far more success using grub and having it add Windows as a bootable partition.

I'm also wondering if I should consider making the jump to ATI er Radeon... ummm AMD? When I started investigating this a few weeks back I was surprised and interested in what I read about the difference in OpenGL support between the two manufacturers. While you're at it, you should try using the "-force-vulkan" command line parameter. When I first tried it early this winter it was completely boxed, but it's a LOT better now... but there are still problems with some of the shadows of trees going crazy. Given that before it resulted in strange pillars of light in the sky (if you follow my meaning ;) ) it's come a long way... and there is no z-fighting when using the vulkan backend. I'm hoping that this is a case of the vulkan driver/libraries getting close to being feature complete on linux. I'm also wondering if the vulkan backend might work just fine with an AMD card. Alternatively, it could be that unity support for vulkan is what needs progressing... but no matter what progress is clearly being made.

Edited by stratvox
Forgot attachment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Not going to improve the nvida situation at all. nvidia is shipping their own Frankensteinish Mesa stack, and as mentioned above whatever they are implementing really isn't compliant to anything, really.

Yeah. I think I'm with you. I'm going to wait until the new amd stuff comes out and once I see how it goes down wrt speed/compliance, I may make the jump.

Don't spend today what you can decide to spend tomorrow ... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, stratvox said:

That's why I run Ubuntu. The graphics-driver and oibaf ppa (depending on your hardware) make dealing with the video cards a snap. You can get a functional desktop going in five to ten minutes on modern hardware. I deal with enough machines (I sysadmin a unix shop in my day job) that I don't want to have to deal with all that stuff. Just get it in, know the packages I need for the tools the devs need to do their work so I can get them in too, and create/manage the accounts on the network services.

Did my time running debian, ubuntu and derivatives - and maybe it's just me, but I never found myself quite happy with what I got in terms of snappyness and customization.

7 hours ago, stratvox said:

I'm also wondering if I should consider making the jump to ATI er Radeon... ummm AMD?

I guess if you are serious about playing on Linux you'll come to a point where you will want an actually supported card, not some hardware half-assed spliced into your system, with every other driver revision breaking something new. Nvidia is never going to opensource their drivers, and, as impressive as it is for a fully reverse-engineered driver stack, nouveau just won't do the trick ever. So I'll make that jump, in any case. The 1050Ti has gotten a bit old, and I'm not going to spend a single dime on CashTX.

Not sure if waiting is a good idea or not. On one hand with Navi looking to be not totally sh*t maybe waiting a month or two is worth the wait, on the other hand you can get some Vega 56's for 250ish bucks right now, and the drivers are tested and true. As for what I've heard it took Polaris 30 (RX590) about two months after release to be anywhere useable with the AMDGPU drivers. But I'm pretty sure they have begun phasing out Vega 10 already as 64 cards are rather short in supply already. So ... maybe waiting isn't the best idea? I'll probably just bet on it with the next paycheck. Plus: you can apparently undervolt Vega 10 GPUs with Linux 4.9 and up. Which is even in the most conservative distros. So you actually have a chance of not running a jet engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, stratvox said:

While you're at it, you should try using the "-force-vulkan" command line parameter.

I might, actually. But again how good and well that's supported depends on nvidias wonky Mesa implementation. That's kinda the point. And I've got a lingering feeling that the company that to this day has failed to properly implement DX12, and that to this day has failed to comply with GL will have a hard time properly supporting Vulkan which, at it's heart, is an architecture 'agnostic' implementation of AMDs Mantle.

Edit: But yes. I'd really love to see Vulkan get the support it deserves. I did some educational programming with it good a year back, and I really like how straight forward it is compared to GL, and it should really "liberate" how game developers write their titles as it kinda does away with the entire argument that GL is more comaptible, but DX is faster. Just hope Apple's boycott doesn't end up killing it :/

Edited by jeffpeng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, with all this fuzz and speaches I'd be super interested to read if the @Support has anything to say about the entire issue (meaning the Z-fighting Terrain).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only recommend giving a recent AMD GPU a try. The amdgpu drivers are really good nowadays and with recent mesa (19.0.x or 19.1.x) the game works like a charm. Although I don't know if I fully understood what you guys mean with "Z-fighting", I sometimes have quite annoying flickering with amdgpu as well in TLD especially on distant rocks and trees.

But since I use the GoG version of the game, I haven't found out yet how to submit command-line options like "-force-vulkan" to the game as I use the startup script that gets shipped with the GoG version of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that flickering is exactly what we're talking about. On nVidia it's really blatant. If you want to use the command line option -force-vulkan (which may work much better on amd than nvidia; while the z-fighting goes away any shadows closer to you than maybe twenty metres or so will make you think Will/Astrid ate some mouldy rye bread) you'd edit the batch file to include it. Or, you can switch into whichever folder that the game got installed into in a terminal and try issuing "./TLD.x86_64 -force-vulkan"

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this