About those brown spoilsports out there

[Arctophobic Misanthrope]

I just had it again... that sneaky brown stinky furball eating my Triceps and part of the Latissimus dorsi. While I was harvesting a wolf that I just ended, that brown sucka was extremely sneaky and absolutely silent until the very second when I finished the harvesting. Then he roared once and ate a good part of me. Not very funny and definitely not realistic in relation to how the bear and wolf threat works in TLD, methinks. 

I know it's easy to fall in a trance, but while I am harvesting for 20 minutes, it's a bad game mechanics, if the bear just stands behind me. One meter away. No roaring before. No sign of his approach - in the middle of a field in Pleasant Valley.

How about having at least some sign of "danger close" appearing during harvesting, so I could quickly stop harvesting and have a few seconds to prepare for fight of flight? I think that would be much more realistic and a bit mor fair.

I am on day 378 and I guess that should give my character some training in situational awareness when it comes to bears and wolves. Don't ya agree?
 

[Guest kristaok]

Nope I can't say that I agree. 

[Arctophobic Misanthrope]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:03 AM, kristaok said:

Nope I can't say that I agree. 

Must be resistant to learning then, methinks.

[Guest kristaok]

23 minutes ago, Arctophobic Misanthrope said:

Must be resistant to learning then, methinks.

You are free to think whatever you like. 

[Grignard_TN]

On 5/26/2019 at 2:03 AM, kristaok said:

Nope I can't say that I agree. 

Why is it a bad idea?

[Guest kristaok]

5 hours ago, Grignard_TN said:

Why is it a bad idea?

In real life do we get this beeping red text or voice saying "Danger Bear is close"? nope... I feel like for realisms sake I wouldn't want a warning, I like the element of surprise, plus you can easily survey the land and listen around for Bears they're really not that hard to spot / avoid. 

[Grignard_TN]

22 minutes ago, kristaok said:

In real life do we get this beeping red text or voice saying "Danger Bear is close"? nope... I feel like for realisms sake I wouldn't want a warning, I like the element of surprise, plus you can easily survey the land and listen around for Bears they're really not that hard to spot / avoid. 

In real life im not locked into an action with an accelerated time perception so I dont have time to react.

In the game i don't have access to senses I have in real life that would alert me to danger.

Those two reasons are examples I could give not to reject the idea out of hand

[ManicManiac]

Honestly I think a better solution to the perceived issue discussed, would just be better situational awareness...  All a player really has to do to avoid getting jumped by a bear or any hostile wildlife is check around the area before starting your harvest.   

[ThePancakeLady]

1 hour ago, Grignard_TN said:

In real life im not locked into an action with an accelerated time perception so I dont have time to react.

In the game i don't have access to senses I have in real life that would alert me to danger.

Those two reasons are examples I could give not to reject the idea out of hand

I have to agree,. Bears IRL have a "funk" about them, that I can smell IRL, but not in the game. The time acceleration would make audio cues seem a bit odd, but that chuffing or "moaning" sound a bear makes, or the growl/whine of a wolf, and the sound of snow crunching as they approach. Even the sounds of the birds getting worked up if you are in an area with birdcalls, normally. I don't want a big red neon symbol flashing on and off, but a little something that might make me hit [Cancel] to check out what is going on. If I ignore the audio cues, my bad. And to be honest, I don't know that I have been paying attention to whether we have any audio cues already, or not, when we harvest. I just harvested 2 deer carcasses last night in-game, and have to admit, I did not pay attention to whether there were any background noises. Perhaps if hitting the [Cancel] button pulled you completely out, without needing to hit [Back] before you can react might give a second or two to allow you to flee or get ready for a mauling or struggle?

[Guest kristaok]

4 hours ago, Grignard_TN said:

In real life im not locked into an action with an accelerated time perception so I dont have time to react.

In the game i don't have access to senses I have in real life that would alert me to danger.

Those two reasons are examples I could give not to reject the idea out of hand

Yes but that is a part of the danger of Hunting and Harvesting anything out in the open. I just don't think having any flashing Text would be realistic. Instead I think it's best to rely on our Hearing and Sight. 

[Grignard_TN]

12 hours ago, kristaok said:

Yes but that is a part of the danger of Hunting and Harvesting anything out in the open. I just don't think having any flashing Text would be realistic. Instead I think it's best to rely on our Hearing and Sight. 

Once again, I chose not to reject his idea out of hand because we are limited by the content the game gives us. The fact is that you might be occupied for an hour in accelerated time with no way of checking the surroundings. No one said anything about having flashing text. It could be as subtle as the sprain indicator. The fact is you used a realism argument when pressed as to why you didn't like his idea when the suggestion itself was to compensate for the lack of  additional cues and warnings that would be present in reality due to the inherent limitations of a video game.  You're saying to rely on hearing and sight, but the entire point I was trying to make is that those abilities are even further limited by the fact that you're locked in to a time accelerated menu while things are happening in the background.

[Guest kristaok]

@Grignard_TN I know what you meant, and I still would not like to have a Warning for a Bear Attack.... locked up or not, it's not realistic, it would make the Game too easy, it would remove the element of surprise, and I just prefer the way it is now. 

[Pillock]

This was an issue that surfaced a couple of updates ago, when they changed animal behaviour so that it continued to move while you were doing a time-accelerated task (before that, the outside world would just go on "pause" while you did whatever you were doing).

And it was an issue that was fixed, as far as I know. Bears, wolves and meese do not approach you while you are in accelerated time, unless they had detected you before you started that task. So, the solution is not to start a time-accelerated task unless you know there's nothing following you. If you are carrying anything that emits a scent, a bear or wolf may be tracking you from some distance away without your knowledge, and they will continue to track the scent while you are in accelerated time.

So drop your smellies before you harvest!

[TheEldritchGod]

It's called the "Escape Key'. Keep your finger on top and listen for crows/barking. You do get a milisecond of warning.

[ManicManiac]

Interesting discussions to be sure... but to me, it still comes back down to careful deliberate action.  All a player really has to do to avoid getting jumped by a bear or any hostile wildlife is check around the area (to make sure the coast is clear) before starting any type of "time accelerated" task.  Every time I see a carcass, the first thing I do is scout a reasonable search area and note any potential threats.  Every time I've ever been ambushed during a harvest was because I didn't take the time to check my surroundings first - I like that this game can sort of punish you for not paying attention to your surroundings.

I really don't feel a "spidey sense" danger warning is necessary, and I really wouldn't like it if one got implemented.

[stratvox]

A few notes about this from my experience.

The first is that if you're being attacked by an animal when you come out of time acceleration while harvesting, it's because you were in their patrol area. You don't start to get smell until after you're done. If you're quartering the carcass, you don't get smell at all because everything is still on the ground when you're done. 

I'm with @ManicManiac on this; I never get down to the cutting without looking around first, and often for a while if there are predators in sight so I can see where they're going. If it looks like they're going to get unreasonably close to the carcass I'll either leave it for the moment to return later and see if the situation's improved, or shoot them as well. I'm a lot more likely to return later if the patrolling animal is a bear unless I can get a good place to shoot from (i.e. one where the bear can't get to me), while with wolves I'm a lot more likely to turn the tables and stalk and shoot them so they'll leave me alone while I harvest.

I've only been jumped once coming out of harvesting, and in all seriousness it was my own freakin' fault for not casing the joint before I went to it. Also, I knew that I was screwed because (as per @TheEldritchGod) I could hear the bear and knew I was gonna take a beating when I came out of it.

I think the current system is a reasonable compromise, given that you have the option of looking around first and you can get warned by sounds. It sure beats not having time acceleration; if you're quartering it takes two hours to do the job, which translates into twelve minutes real time.

[Pillock]

The point here is, animals will not detect you during the harvesting process. If you're on or near their patrol route, they might walk past you during the accelerated time, but they will likely just move away again as if you weren't there. If you're unlucky, you might finish the accelerated-time action just when they're right near you, and then you'll have to react quickly. But that's a pretty rare occurrence.

On the other hand, if you have anything in your inventory that's smell can be detected by a predator, then you're running a big risk if you start harvesting. It could be the tiniest morsel of cooked meat. That stuff still emits a scent -  too small to show up on the scent-o-meter, but a scent nonetheless. If a predator detects it before you start harvesting, they WILL be on top of you when you finish. They don't interrupt your task, but they'll be standing there waiting for you when you're done.

I've been attacked by a wolf up by the Lake Overlook cave above ML Camp Office before - wolves never go up there normally, but I was carrying one cooked venison steak, and I started harvesting a tree limb. I saw a black shape zoom across my vision during accelerated-time, and then I got a wolf attack immediately after I finished chopping.

I've been attacked by a bear outside the fishing hut just below Jackrabbit's Island. I was harvesting a deer in small increments, cutting bits of meat and putting them on to my campfire to cook. But I wasn't dropping all the extra meat on the floor in between harvests, and the bear must have detected the smell from over by the Fishing Camp. He walked over to me during the accelerated-time phase, and then whacked me right when I came out of it.

I've also been gored by a moose because I didn't see him before starting a map-sketch. (But he must have seen me!) Again, I saw the moose running up to me in fast-forward during accelerated time, and when I'd finished the mapping he immediately jumped on top of me.

Having a campfire next to you while you harvest a carcass will keep you safe from wolves and moose, because they're scared of fire. But bears aren't, and they apparently have quite a good sense of smell. They will travel quite far out of their normal patrol routes if they detect a scent, and they might be well out of sight when you start an accelerated time task, so you don't always know they're on to you.

Meat and guts don't emit a scent if they're on the floor, but they do if they're in your inventory. Cooked meat still emits a scent, even if it's only one single tiny piece and there's nothing showing on your scent-o-meter. If you make sure you drop all meat - cooked and fresh - and all fresh guts onto the floor before you start havesting (and check there's no moose nearby!), you will probably be safe.

[melcantspell]

If you have any trouble with bears (or a moose) attacking you out of the blue, maybe play with headphones on or just up the volume. And do not listen to music while playing. 

I haven't had a single surprise ever since I stopped listening to music while playing TLD. The acoustic cues are more alarming than any warning sign could ever be.

[Khan_Drichthyes]

It's been a while, since I was last here.  In fact, this infamous update was fairly recent, back then.  I didn't know that it had been adjusted to be less dangerous, so in my new playthrough, I was VERY cautious as I harvested my 1st bear of the game.

I built a fire next to it, made sure nothing else was nearby, and quartered it for transport back to base camp.  -I succeeded without incident. 

[hozz1235]

I can see how preparation before harvesting may mitigate a surprise attack when coming out of "warp drive", but I also can see the OP point as well.  Flashing text??  No, but, despite all caution, I have had these surprises more often than I like.  I'm not sure what HL could do to further mitigate this but realistically we would hear a bear approaching us and we would have time to stop what we're doing and respond in some way.

[ajb1978]

I just make a point to crouch before doing any time-accelerated action.  Breaking down a branch and immediately aggroing a wolf is annoying.

1 hour ago, hozz1235 said:

I can see how preparation before harvesting may mitigate a surprise attack when coming out of "warp drive", but I also can see the OP point as well.  Flashing text??  No, but, despite all caution, I have had these surprises more often than I like.  I'm not sure what HL could do to further mitigate this but realistically we would hear a bear approaching us and we would have time to stop what we're doing and respond in some way.

Probably the best way to go about it is to auto-cancel if a predator gets close enough to detect you.  At that point the harvest is canceled, whatever you were harvesting ends up in a pile on the ground (i.e. not in your inventory yet), and you can then respond to the threat.  Get away, shake the animal off your tail, then circle back to finish the job.  Or if you were already crouched, the animal doesn't actually detect you yet, so you can sneak away, let it pass, then sneak back and finish up.

I dunno. Seems like a lot of work to me to be honest, to address something that in practice isn't so big an issue if you just crouch ahead of time.

Edited July 2, 2019 by ajb1978

[hozz1235]

26 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

I just make a point to crouch before doing any time-accelerated action.  Breaking down a branch and immediately aggroing a wolf is annoying.

Probably the best way to go about it is to auto-cancel if a predator gets close enough to detect you.  At that point the harvest is canceled, whatever you were harvesting ends up in a pile on the ground (i.e. not in your inventory yet), and you can then respond to the threat.  Get away, shake the animal off your tail, then circle back to finish the job.  Or if you were already crouched, the animal doesn't actually detect you yet, so you can sneak away, let it pass, then sneak back and finish up.

I dunno. Seems like a lot of work to me to be honest, to address something that in practice isn't so big an issue if you just crouch ahead of time.

Crouch does help but does not diminish the simple fact of, "...but realistically we would hear a bear approaching us and we would have time to stop what we're doing and respond in some way."  I also realize not everything in the game is realistic.

[Guest jeffpeng]

I'm a bit on the fence here. The game offers mechanics to help mitigate the risk of being jumped after harvesting.

One is to do your harvest in short intervals. Being busy 5 minutes at a time harvesting meat is much less dangerous. It's something you do on harder games anyways to track the weather, temperature, etc. Crouching as @ajb1978 suggested is a good thing to do pretty much anytime you don't need to walk. Successful survivors squat! Be a good slav and you live longer. Then being in the know if a bear is roaming your surroundings helps as well. Knowing your map, the areas the bears go and which they don't, and also if a bear is on the prowl right now. There are certain parts I wouln't even think about hunting because of this reason. Then the biggest downside I see in giving some escape mechannic this is that all of that would go to waste. You would just rely on whatever warning/escape mechanic the game would give you.

On the other hand I see the problem and can sympathize. Since @BareSkin tought me the advantages of quartering I found myself in more than one dicey situation. Quartering takes an hour or two, which is its biggest drawback. If you park your butt for a whole hour of accelerated time somewhere, getting a blind date with a bear becomes that much more likely, and in fact I had such an encounter myself. And it's one of the most frustrating things that can happen to you in the game.

So, I guess what I am saying is: it would probably be best if long tasks such as quartering or even taking a hide were interruptable or suspendable. I don't like the idea of a passive mechanic that would just save you, but having an active mechanic to stay alert would be great. I personally could think of it like holding key, and while you do it would suspend the action, bring you out of accelerated time, and give you a chance to look around, listen to your surroundings, etc. This would simulate active caution when doing something over mindless tunnelvision.

The other option would be to actually be able to quit and resume an accerated action. Like when you are chopping up a limb of wood, you could "cancel" out of it, and if you resume it in a short time window, you could pick up where you left off. This would also allow to react to your surroundings or your status on-the-fly instead of having to care for any possibility beforehand.

[Crakkerjakked]

I have to agree with jeffpeng here, for the most part.

This is a video game. Not a Survival Simulator. It's annoying to be mauled or chomped on when you're harvesting, but having all the bells and whistles to avoid it takes away the challenge of playing and would ruin the game. Being able to cancel an action would be alright, similarly to how you can cancel the "Pass Time" mechanic, but that would also put almost no difficulty or risk on gathering. Making the game too simple makes the game not fun. It'd be like playing Solitaire. No challenge and something to do just to pass the time.

I prefer they keep the system how it is.

[BareSkin]

On 7/3/2019 at 7:53 AM, jeffpeng said:

Since @BareSkin tought me the advantages of quartering I found myself in more than one dicey situation. Quartering takes an hour or two, which is its biggest drawback.

I actually quartered by chunks thanks to the ESC key. Mainly because if I don't have fire I have to avoid freezing, and if I have I need to optimize watermaking. But we'll all agree dropping the smellies before any time-lapse is the best risk mitigation.