FrozenCorpse

This game is screaming for ZOMBIES!!!

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Posted (edited)

I think you over-think all this, Mroz4K.

And there would have been a discussion, if people actually responded in a way that allow such discussion and not a bunch of "Over my dead body!" answer type. (Pun intended, of course.😀)

Edited by Nogen
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3 hours ago, FrozenCorpse said:

I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to respond to my wishlist post.  I can understand how some might be inclined to think this was a troll considering the communities' (+ game devs?) long-standing opposition to zombies.  Hardcore fans of the game are so adamantly opposed to anything stereotypically zombified - be it human or wildlife - that I've witnessed the term utilized in derogatory fashion in attempts to compel game devs to tweak the wolf AI.   As I am well-aware of the unpopularity of the suggestion, I have to admit that my wording of this posts' title could have been somewhat less "trollesque".   While the choice was intentionally confrontational, it was not meant as a simple troll.  It's meant to draw attention to the ill-founded bias against depictions of reanimated life-forms based solely on their inaccurate portrayals in contemporary gaming and media.

I am an escapist gamer who thrives on adventure and excitement along with a healthy dose of challenge mixed in to my gaming.  The more a game pulls me in to its' world and makes me believe in it, the happier I am.  I find games whose developers demonstrate a commitment to maintaining fidelity with the real world far more enjoyable than those that constantly have me grumbling, "That's not the way it works IRL.".  I'm also a big fan of RPG elements and I insist on immersion being a high priority.  I have an inner "Steadfast Ranger".  I want to stretch his legs in an epic tale of survival in the wilds of the Northern wilderness .. I want him to make it through this dystopian nightmare alive and against the odds.    Those odds aren't merely basis for a PvE walking simulator / survival game scenario, because something else is going on here:  Something big.  This unknown scientific / medical crisis underlying the story-line and placing our protagonists in this predicament in the first place is coupled with perhaps the most statistically probable doomsday scenario where massive coronal activity results in global GME's which destroy the electrical grids of developed countries and incapacitate the global electronic infrastructure.   The plausibility that the dead could actually be re-animated under just these conditions and the likelihood that just such a scenario might well be the extinction-level event with the greatest potential to wipe mankind off the face of the Earth was too much for me to ignore.

Even though it sounds like I'm wishing there was zombies in the game, I'm not:  Not really.  What I'm calling zombies is really something different.. something... plausible.  Flesh, - organic tissues.. transformed by some mutated virus or bacteriological toxin - becomes reanimated by a re-energized nervous systems as the result of geomagnetic activity of unprecedented magnitude.  They don't necessarily roam the wilds compelled to satisfy some ravenous hunger or unquenchable thirst.  They don't necessarily have to be formidable adversaries or even aggressive.. Maybe they just mull about until the force producing reanimation is removed and they, once again, drop to the ground (Yes.Would be boring and, seriously, why bother?).  Maybe they are attracted to movement and get in the way when players are trying to navigate difficult terrain.. Maybe they are attracted to fire and interfere with cooking or cause players to inadvertently burn themselves.. Maybe they approach players while they're trying to be stealthy and draw attention to their presence.. Maybe they get stuck in waterfalls or out on weak ice trying to drink and players risk getting wet or falling in while trying to loot their bodies.  Perhaps they might even have a beneficial usefulness!

Let's say they're simply attracted to movement.  A player could load up a "reanimated corpse" with a bunch of gear and get them to follow them back to a base, or move from one base to another.   Perhaps frozen corpses could be artificially reanimated by wrapping the corpse in wire and simulating the effects of the GME using a car batteriy in a backpack... a battery-powered follower...).  Maybe one of these Borcs (battery-operated reanimated corpses) would spaz out or burst into flames if a GME were to occur while they're under "battery-assisted locomotion".  It doesn't HAVE to be some stereotypical Night of the Living Dead zombie trope.   Hinterland could re-imagine the zombie phenomenon in a way that no one else can ..because they have the necessary precursors in place already.

I think it's safe to say this dead horse is sufficiently beaten ..and the reanimated one too.  :)

Thanks for your time if you made it through my tldr.

Its fine you had a idea and how you put it does sound really cool 

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1 hour ago, Nogen said:

I think you over-think all this, Mroz4K.

And there would have been a discussion, if peoples actually responded in a way that allow such discussion and not a bunch of "Over my dead body!" answer type. (Pun intended, of course.😀)

I wish that was the case, but I am not, Im afraid. Read the text that is written below the Wishlist section of the forums - "Share your ideas for things you would like to see added into the game in the future". Most people who come and post here keep that motto in mind. 

Thus they treat this as something OP would like to see in the game. The discussions that happen on wishlists are usually in the nature of two topics - one is about agreement or disagreement why this should be in the game, and the other is about how it would work - mechanics, specifics, similar ideas, that sort of thing. There is not much OP wrote about what these zombies would be like, what dangers they would possess... so there is not a lot we can discuss about the mechanics. So most people would just express if they want to see this added into the game or not. Also, I dont have an official source, but some years ago, there was a character backstory written about these characters which kind of described them further. I tried to write it down in two topics as best as I remember - point here is, Astrid was not a virologist. Reference 1. Reference 2. I wish I had the official source of this, sadly its proven impossible to find.

I think the discussion could be interesting, but this was not very fortunately chosen subforum to have a discussion.

If I can maybe express myself on the topic of it - I agree with the general consensus here. I would not like to see zombies added into the game. I think it would entirely kill the magic of this game for me, and for many others. 

That said - if we ever see decent mod support for this game, this could make for a very popular major mod. I think that would be best because as a community made contribution, it would be entirely voluntary for everyone, and as such, the people who would want zombies could get them, and people who wouldnt, would not. Best solution for everybody.

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Yeah, and I'm screaming NOOOOO like a moisture farmer who just lost his hand on a floating city on a gas giant to his father who's also Darth Vader.

Zombies do not fit with the theme of this game, as someone who's religiously read the Zombie Survival Guide, I can tell you that zombies do not fare well in a freezing environment. They would freeze solid in about a day and be no harm to anyone except during a thaw (which doesn't happen in TLD). TLD already has a main antagonist far worse than any zombie: mother nature (and a finite amount of some resources). Zombies don't add anything to the game and would require far more work than any sort of payoff. I agree with some of those above, I'd probably stop playing if TLD added zombies.

Now, I could maybe see it as a one-time optional thing like the Halloween stuff (maybe have this be a 24 hour April Fools event where the zombies only last for 24 hours before they freeze solid), but 100% no to the actual game having zombies. 

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4 hours ago, Willy Pete said:

"Zombies do not fit with the theme of this game"

"..zombies do not fare well in a freezing environment."

"TLD already has a main antagonist far worse than any zombie: mother nature"

"Zombies don't add anything to the game and would require far more work than any sort of payoff"

"I could maybe see it as a one-time optional thing.."

 

Claim #1: "Zombies do not fit with the theme of this game.."

Response #1:  If there were no "mystery case" along with the mysterious disappearance of Astrid, no "unnatural" glowing-eyed, crazed "Aurora" bears and wolves, or reoccurring geomagnetic events (auroras / GME's) of unprecedented magnitude in the game, I'd concede to your assertion.  However, the entirety of the game isn't based solely around a PvE survival scenario.  Sure, if all one does is sandbox the game in Survival mode and takes the game at face-value based solely on the mechanics of that gameplay, then, "Yes.  Reanimating the dead doesn't presently fit with the apparent theme one might deduce from that aspect of TLD gameplay alone (a post-apocalyptic survival game set in the dead of Winter on a desolate unpopulated island in the Canadian wilderness).  But this game isn't just about sandboxing.  There's Wintermute: Story mode.  In that scenario, unnatural occurrences most certainly do fit the overarching theme of the games' story, and for several reasons:  1.  An as yet unresolved bio-medical emergency involving the mysterious case and a missing Astrid.  2. Massive and ongoing geomagnetic events powerful enough to disrupt weather patterns and drastically affect animal physiology and behavior (Aurora bears and wolves).  3. Astrid used to work for a researcher at "the center" (could easily be The Center for Disease Control" or similar entity) though now,  4. She freelances doing her own research; pursuing her own interests.  5.  There is an unspoken tragedy in Will and Astrids' history which is only alluded to in a cryptic discussion regarding the apparent death of their son.  If she was pursuing her own line of research (motivated by the death of her child) after having worked at some unknown research facility, the case could well hold some experimental medical treatment or med-tech.  Considering that she insists on maintaining a veil of secrecy regarding the case, I think it safe to assume that whatever it is, it's not simply medicine for a sick island resident.  6. Astrid expresses concern that "the situation" is going to get worse the longer she is delayed.  Well, she was severely delayed.  We can safely assume the situation has gotten far worse.
Finally, I would point out that, since sandboxing was originally conceived merely as a test-bed for the Story mode, that it is survival mode which is not fully representative of the games' theme rather than the inverse.  So, "Yes.": reanimated dead would, in fact, conform to the overarching theme of this game.

Claim #2: "..(zombies) do not fare well in a freezing environment."

Response #2:  There would be two types of life in that isolated environment:  the infected and non-infected.  If either succumbs to the elements and dies, they'd both freeze.  Flesh frozen solid wouldn't be supple and would be incapable of reanimated locomotion.  Frozen brain tissue wouldn't be capable of even the most rudimentary neural activity.  Ambient air temperature outdoors never rises above freezing.  So, as we have seen, the dead - infected and non-infected alike - are little more than meat Popsicles.

However, there are instances where the ambient air temperature does rise above freezing.  The indoor temperature rises while using a fire in a stove, and the external air temp rises within proximity of a campfire of sufficient composition.  Either of these methods could be utilized to "thaw the dead".  Now, they aren't frozen.  The non-infected dead would remain inanimate (dead) even when thawed.  So too would the infected if the missing part(s) of the equation were not present.  Those missing factors could be either electro-magnetism (such as that present during the GME's) or Astrids' mysterious med-tech device or medication / drug / treatment.  So the dead could not be reanimated while frozen, but there are ways to thaw them out and reanimate them.  One thing of note is that this scenario has a basic cryogenic element to it with all these bodies being on deep-freeze all this time.  It's quite possible that thawing someone out and giving them something from the mystery case and/or exposing them to electro-magnetism could result in a reanimated breathing, speaking human being.  Doesn't have to be aggressive.  Might provide valuable information or advance the story-line, issue missions, cache locations, and so on.  They could have varying degrees of responsiveness.  Maybe some could only function as mules.  Maybe some would be villainous.  Maybe some would regain considerable lucidity while conditions permitting reanimation were present.

Claim #3: "TLD already has a main antagonist far worse than any zombie: mother nature"

Response #3:  The reanimated wouldn't necessarily function as antagonists, though I too assumed as much in my initial conjecture (moaning zombie in the Carter dam, half-eaten deer, skinned wolf...).  It wasn't until thinking it over for awhile that I realized the reanimated could easily function as neutral or even protagonist elements in the game as it would basically be a rudimentary cryogenic reanimation.

Claim #4: " Zombies don't add anything to the game and would require far more work than any sort of payoff.."

Response #4:  I think I've made it amply clear that reanimating various frozen entities throughout the game would significantly enrich the story and add lots of content and depth to the game.  The amount of work involved would be contingent on the functionality of the reanimated person or animal.  Perhaps only cinematics would need to be made for the different corpses reanimated.  But animating a corpse to do basic pathfinding or follow the player isn't rocket science.  Maybe making it so that you could reanimate any corpse in the game and get them to function as a pack mule might be somewhat involved.. their scope of movement would probably be limited to simple walking functionality.  But, who knows?  Once reanimated, maybe they're quite functional.  That would be a call for the devs.  Perhaps we wouldn't encounter the infected until venturing further north on the island and some bacterial byproduct functioned as a cryogenic anti-freeze allowing basic neural activity to remain while the bodies were in their state of frozen stasis.  Once reanimated (and possibly given Astrid's treatment?), they might resume normal behavior and functionality.. in which case it wouldn't really be appropriate to call them zombies...

Statement A: " I could maybe see it as a one-time optional thing.."

Response A:  Maybe.  But then the effort vs. return ratio would be horrific.  I'm only interested in reanimating the dead insofar as it would advance the story-line.

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27 minutes ago, FrozenCorpse said:

 

Claim #1: "Zombies do not fit with the theme of this game.."

Response #1:  If there were no "mystery case" along with the mysterious disappearance of Astrid, no "unnatural" glowing-eyed, crazed "Aurora" bears and wolves, or reoccurring geomagnetic events (auroras / GME's) of unprecedented magnitude in the game, I'd concede to your assertion.  However, the entirety of the game isn't based solely around a PvE survival scenario.  Sure, if all one does is sandbox the game in Survival mode and takes the game at face-value based solely on the mechanics of that gameplay, then, "Yes.  Reanimating the dead doesn't presently fit with the apparent theme one might deduce from that aspect of TLD gameplay alone (a post-apocalyptic survival game set in the dead of Winter on a desolate unpopulated island in the Canadian wilderness).  But this game isn't just about sandboxing.  There's Wintermute: Story mode.  In that scenario, unnatural occurrences most certainly do fit the overarching theme of the games' story, and for several reasons:  1.  An as yet unresolved bio-medical emergency involving the mysterious case and a missing Astrid.  2. Massive and ongoing geomagnetic events powerful enough to disrupt weather patterns and drastically affect animal physiology and behavior (Aurora bears and wolves).  3. Astrid used to work for a researcher at "the center" (could easily be The Center for Disease Control" or similar entity) though now,  4. She freelances doing her own research; pursuing her own interests.  5.  There is an unspoken tragedy in Will and Astrids' history which is only alluded to in a cryptic discussion regarding the apparent death of their son.  If she was pursuing her own line of research (motivated by the death of her child) after having worked at some unknown research facility, the case could well hold some experimental medical treatment or med-tech.  Considering that she insists on maintaining a veil of secrecy regarding the case, I think it safe to assume that whatever it is, it's not simply medicine for a sick island resident.  6. Astrid expresses concern that "the situation" is going to get worse the longer she is delayed.  Well, she was severely delayed.  We can safely assume the situation has gotten far worse.
Finally, I would point out that, since sandboxing was originally conceived merely as a test-bed for the Story mode, that it is survival mode which is not fully representative of the games' theme rather than the inverse.  So, "Yes.": reanimated dead would, in fact, conform to the overarching theme of this game.

Claim #2: "..(zombies) do not fare well in a freezing environment."

Response #2:  There would be two types of life in that isolated environment:  the infected and non-infected.  If either succumbs to the elements and dies, they'd both freeze.  Flesh frozen solid wouldn't be supple and would be incapable of reanimated locomotion.  Frozen brain tissue wouldn't be capable of even the most rudimentary neural activity.  Ambient air temperature outdoors never rises above freezing.  So, as we have seen, the dead - infected and non-infected alike - are little more than meat Popsicles.

However, there are instances where the ambient air temperature does rise above freezing.  The indoor temperature rises while using a fire in a stove, and the external air temp rises within proximity of a campfire of sufficient composition.  Either of these methods could be utilized to "thaw the dead".  Now, they aren't frozen.  The non-infected dead would remain inanimate (dead) even when thawed.  So too would the infected if the missing part(s) of the equation were not present.  Those missing factors could be either electro-magnetism (such as that present during the GME's) or Astrids' mysterious med-tech device or medication / drug / treatment.  So the dead could not be reanimated while frozen, but there are ways to thaw them out and reanimate them.  One thing of note is that this scenario has a basic cryogenic element to it with all these bodies being on deep-freeze all this time.  It's quite possible that thawing someone out and giving them something from the mystery case and/or exposing them to electro-magnetism could result in a reanimated breathing, speaking human being.  Doesn't have to be aggressive.  Might provide valuable information or advance the story-line, issue missions, cache locations, and so on.  They could have varying degrees of responsiveness.  Maybe some could only function as mules.  Maybe some would be villainous.  Maybe some would regain considerable lucidity while conditions permitting reanimation were present.

Claim #3: "TLD already has a main antagonist far worse than any zombie: mother nature"

Response #3:  The reanimated wouldn't necessarily function as antagonists, though I too assumed as much in my initial conjecture (moaning zombie in the Carter dam, half-eaten deer, skinned wolf...).  It wasn't until thinking it over for awhile that I realized the reanimated could easily function as neutral or even protagonist elements in the game as it would basically be a rudimentary cryogenic reanimation.

Claim #4: " Zombies don't add anything to the game and would require far more work than any sort of payoff.."

Response #4:  I think I've made it amply clear that reanimating various frozen entities throughout the game would significantly enrich the story and add lots of content and depth to the game.  The amount of work involved would be contingent on the functionality of the reanimated person or animal.  Perhaps only cinematics would need to be made for the different corpses reanimated.  But animating a corpse to do basic pathfinding or follow the player isn't rocket science.  Maybe making it so that you could reanimate any corpse in the game and get them to function as a pack mule might be somewhat involved.. their scope of movement would probably be limited to simple walking functionality.  But, who knows?  Once reanimated, maybe they're quite functional.  That would be a call for the devs.  Perhaps we wouldn't encounter the infected until venturing further north on the island and some bacterial byproduct functioned as a cryogenic anti-freeze allowing basic neural activity to remain while the bodies were in their state of frozen stasis.  Once reanimated (and possibly given Astrid's treatment?), they might resume normal behavior and functionality.. in which case it wouldn't really be appropriate to call them zombies...

Statement A: " I could maybe see it as a one-time optional thing.."

Response A:  Maybe.  But then the effort vs. return ratio would be horrific.  I'm only interested in reanimating the dead insofar as it would advance the story-line.

     Well now you've just trashed by plan for the zombie apocalypse. I figured if I escaped to the frozen north there would be less zombies, and if I did catch a zombie virus, I'd just die in the cold and nature would take care of it. Now I have to think about the prospect of maintaining some rudimentary conciousness while being frozen in place instead of just dying; my view of eternity would simply be an unceasing pattern of the rising of the sun and the setting of it in the small window I managed to freeze myself behind. A thousand years in some rich asshat's hunting lodge, day in, day out, watching the rise and set of the sun in a frosted over window. Thanks.

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Oi! Cool zombies!

I would also add:

1. Hunting from helicopter with machine gun.

2. Grenades

3. Military grade weaponry (who cares about old SMLE, lets rock with H&K 417)

4. UAV for wildlife

5. Turning into a zombie

6. Battle royale mod

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5 minutes ago, Moll said:

Oi! Cool zombies!

I would also add:

1. Hunting from helicopter with machine gun.

2. Grenades

3. Military grade weaponry (who cares about old SMLE, lets rock with H&K 417)

4. UAV for wildlife

5. Turning into a zombie

6. Battle royale mod

Yay!  Thanks for the support! :)  All those things sound really neat.. but if you really want the devs to seriously consider your wishes, you might want to consider posting your list as a separate post on the wishlist forum since it will kinda get lost here at the end of my post.

Your idea for reanimating the player is particularly interesting.. I hadn't thought of that.. that way, if the player died, they could just do whatever they needed to as they were slipping into the long dark and WALLA!  Back in the game!  You're a genius!

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12 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

since we all know this topic is not going to bring anything new for the Wishlist section, where serious ideas for the game of The Long Dark are posted. I think it would be an interesting discussion on the topic of possibilities of zombies within the game, but in that case, it is in the entirely wrong section of the forums.

 

12 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

 But, if that was the purpose, it was never supposed to be posted in Wishlist. Wishlist holds a preemptive condition that says "I want this in the game" - which is obvious, right? 
 

I have to respectfully disagree a bit here. The devs may also be looking at the Wish List subforum for ideas and concepts that they can use in a future game as well. So, it may not get used in The Long Dark, but it may give the studio inspiration for their next big project. Which is a win-win, IMHO. Seeing what people like or don't like in their current game, and seeing what people want in the/a game, may well help them decide on the general concept and direction for their next game, and the one after that, and the one after that. In General Discussions, this thread would likely be visited more often, and become even more rambling than it is, making it difficult or impossible for the devs and CM to follow, unless posts get reported for some reason. I do believe they monitor these Wish Listthreads, and the Wish List threads on Steam, more actively, because a player may have an idea that was never really thought of or given consideration by the devs. I feel this thread was posted in the correct subforum. New ideas are being shared. That may show up in the Next Big Thing. And @Admin has already been here, they could have moved the thread to a different subfoum if they felt it did not belong here, anyway.

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This discussion is going fine and is placed an appropriate sub-forum.

Thank you.

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22 hours ago, Moll said:

Oi! Cool zombies!

I would also add:

1. Hunting from helicopter with machine gun.

2. Grenades

3. Military grade weaponry (who cares about old SMLE, lets rock with H&K 417)

4. UAV for wildlife

5. Turning into a zombie

6. Battle royale mod

Are you serious ?.Tell me what else with the help of a tank on the bear hunts :).I don't know :). This will not be The Long Dark ,and some other game. Don't have all those tanks and helicopters. And even more zombies. There are other games for that.

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The only Zombie Game I have ever truly liked was the older Resident Evil Games, even then I preferred to watch a Family Member play it. I personally don't like to play Horror type Games, so with that being said... if TLD ever added Zombies I would try my darndest to never Update the Game, and if that didn't work I would shelve the Game (never ever play it again). Why? because I didn't buy this Game to play against Zombies, if I wanted a Zombie Game I would have bought Resident Evil or something like that but I didn't. 

Also Zombies don't belong in TLD, TLD is about Surviving the harsh Winters and the Wildlife, and the Story-line would not even match a Zombie Apocalypse anyway. So I am sorry, but it's a NO from me. 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, AlexandraRussia said:

Are you serious ?.Tell me what else with the help of a tank on the bear hunts :).I don't know :). This will not be The Long Dark ,and some other game. Don't have all those tanks and helicopters. And even more zombies. There are other games for that.

Everybody wants to change unique TLD atmoshpere into generic shooter.

 

Dont you want purge bears with bursts from your 7.62 mm battle rifle? 

Edited by Moll

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21 minutes ago, Moll said:

Everybody wants to change unique TLD atmoshpere into generic shooter.

 

Dont you want purge bears with bursts from your 7.62 mm battle rifle? 

No thanks :). I love this game because it is special and not like other games. and do not turn it into something else :)

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4 hours ago, Moll said:

Everybody wants to change unique TLD atmoshpere into generic shooter.

I didn't see such thing.

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I would like some more kinds of diseases to be added to the game, but evidently not zombies

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Okay while it is a perfect scenario for something like this, keep in mind it wouldn't fit the theme of the game.

And even if there were zombies, they couldn't possibly be a threat considering it's subzero temperatures. 

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Oh, i forgot fishing with explosives.

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