Bear/Wolf/Moose interaction.

[ManicManiac]

I know something like this must have been brought up in the past, but I didn't want to resurrect and old post.  That seems to be frowned upon.

I think it would be wonderful to see more interactions between the wild life (even from just the standpoint of an observer):

It would be interesting to be able to see 2 or 3 wolves harassing a bear or try to take on a moose.  Now I don't mean for the wolves to win though, (as that would create an opportunity for a player to very easily scavenge bear/moose meat and hide) but rather just have an interesting encounter to watch.  The bear or moose eventually driving them off causing the wolves to scatter and things returning to normal.  (of course the default behavior of wolves fleeing would still be there, just perhaps a small chance if there are 2 or more to "trigger" the mini-encounter).

I just think I would be an interesting occurrence for a player to see. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by ManicManiac

[ThePancakeLady]

I have always liked this idea, though it would require a bunch of different animations to be created for each animal, and then coded correctly to have the appropriate animations play for different types of interactions. I would love to see a Moose stomping or charging at a wolf pack, or trying to intimidate a bear. But I do wonder how it would affect performance on lower-end rigs like mine, and others far below the specs I have. But yeah, if it can be done without slowing my fps to slide-show speeds, I would really love to see this.

[ManicManiac]

@ThePancakeLady
Yeah, it would be a lot of effort to implement and perhaps it's not a likely inclusion because of that... I was just thinking about my current run and thought, "how neat it would be to see the hostile wildlife get into scraps with each other instead of only out to kill me..."  

Granted, wolves do hunt rabbits and deer as well... perhaps the bear might one day get an update to do the same.

Edited May 16, 2019 by ManicManiac

[ThePancakeLady]

Deer: "Look guys, there are 12 of us. We have sharp pointy antlers. if we band together, we can run this big galoot out of our feeding territory."

Moose: "Bring it."

Wolves: "Oh, snap. Get the popcorn."

[ajb1978]

And let's not forget that brief test branch "trample" message that came up whenever a fleeing deer ran into you....

[Doc Feral]

If wolves started fighting together against big animals they should rightfully do the same against players, and that would be murderous.

[ThePancakeLady]

33 minutes ago, Doc Feral said:

If wolves started fighting together against big animals they should rightfully do the same against players, and that would be murderous.

Play Stalker. And have 4 or 5 come all at once. They are polite though, they line up and wait in queue.

[Doc Feral]

Been there, done that, I only play stalker. If they keep fighting as low-level movie henchmen it's ok. My record (surviving) is five.

[TerribleSurvivor]

11 hours ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Deer: "Look guys, there are 12 of us. We have sharp pointy antlers. if we band together, we can run this big galoot out of our feeding territory."

Moose: "Bring it."

Wolves: "Oh, snap. Get the popcorn."

What about a TLD Street fighter extension

[TerribleSurvivor]

Also, nice idea @OP. I would like to see it ingame!

[sierra 117]

I think this would be a great addition to the game. 

If the wolves attack a bear or moose then I think it would be reasonable that the hide would be unharvestable/ruined. Also if they made it so the wolves could not be made to flee from the carcass and would instead instantly attack the player even if you shot one.(which would make sense as they brought It down together as a pack and so much meat would be worth defending to the death )

That way It wouldn't give the player easy access to these hides/or meat early game. 

[Hotzn]

On 5/16/2019 at 3:07 AM, ajb1978 said:

And let's not forget that brief test branch "trample" message that came up whenever a fleeing deer ran into you....

Interesting, never saw/heard about that. I would actually find it cool if fleeing deer could run the player over, potentially causing some clothing damage and/or injury.

[ajb1978]

1 hour ago, Hotzn said:

Interesting, never saw/heard about that. I would actually find it cool if fleeing deer could run the player over, potentially causing some clothing damage and/or injury.

Yeah it was super brief, only existed for maybe a week, if that.  It didn't actually do anything to you, it just showed the message on the screen.

I have nothing but conjecture but I personally think that was a very early precursor to current moose behavior.

[Mroz4k]

I dont think ressurecting an old topic is frowned upon, as long as you add something new to it, I think its all good  what is more likely frowned upon are people who would come into an old thread and ressurect it without adding anything to it, if someone said on an old post something like "I like this idea", it would be kinda difficult to gauge from that what part of it they meant, if you get my meaning

But I also think it never hurts to add a thread of your own, especially if your idea differs from those other ones a bit.

I am all up for random encounters, and I dont think animations would be that huge of a problem now that the studio has their own equipment and bigger team of animators then they had in the past, although I imagine they have plenty of work to do working on all kinds of animations already.

I do see a technical issue here, though. You mentioned wolf pack meets one of the bigger animals and tries to "take them on" - problem is, this almost never really happens with the way animal AI is right now.

For this, we would need to have roaming animals first. Whether it is a bear, moose, or a pack of roaming wolves, there would need to be at least some animals roaming for these encounters to happen. I am a big fan of the idea that some animals would be roaming - it would add a sense of unpredictability to the game, keep the player aware and invested into the game at all times. Then I would very happily see these encounters happen on occasion in the game.

[UpUpAway95]

4 hours ago, sierra 117 said:

I think this would be a great addition to the game. 

If the wolves attack a bear or moose then I think it would be reasonable that the hide would be unharvestable/ruined. Also if they made it so the wolves could not be made to flee from the carcass and would instead instantly attack the player even if you shot one.(which would make sense as they brought It down together as a pack and so much meat would be worth defending to the death )

That way It wouldn't give the player easy access to these hides/or meat early game. 

They would then have to change the mechanics around rabbit hides and deer hides.  Right now, as long as you chase the wolf away from its kill before it is done eating, the hide and guts and some of the meat can be harvested.

I wouldn't mind if the interactions were added to the game at the lower difficulty levels (like pilgrim)... and if they allowed the player to sneak in and down the larger animal while it is distracted.  It would make things easier, sure; but I don't have a problem with that.  Right now, it is most difficult on pilgrim to hunt these animals since they flee as soon as they get wind of the player rather than attack.

On the higher difficulty levels, I think the animals should cease their interaction with each other as soon as they detect the player... and all focus their attack on the player.  That should make for a difficult challenge for those players who currently don't feel challenged enough... being charged by several wolves and a bear or moose at the same time.

[ThePancakeLady]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

They would then have to change the mechanics around rabbit hides and deer hides.  Right now, as long as you chase the wolf away from its kill before it is done eating, the hide and guts and some of the meat can be harvested.

I wouldn't mind if the interactions were added to the game at the lower difficulty levels (like pilgrim)... and if they allowed the player to sneak in and down the larger animal while it is distracted.  It would make things easier, sure; but I don't have a problem with that.  Right now, it is most difficult on pilgrim to hunt these animals since they flee as soon as they get wind of the player rather than attack.

On the higher difficulty levels, I think the animals should cease their interaction with each other as soon as they detect the player... and all focus their attack on the player.  That should make for a difficult challenge for those players who currently don't feel challenged enough... being charged by several wolves and a bear or moose at the same time.

Agreed, Pilgrim has its own challenges, hunting things that run away when they spot you 1/2 mile away is one of them.

I like the general idea here though, but think having the entire zoo come charging at you is a bit much. Perhaps if one of the animals was injured during their interaction with another animal, or pack of them, that animal might use the distraction to try to make an escape, while the other animal(s) would have to use their detection abilities (scent, hearing, smell...) are you carrying meat/guts/hide/fish, are you injured or sick, do you look like easier prey than they animal they were first after? And then RNJesus would roll the dice whether they come after you or not. Unless you advance on them and threaten them, in which case they either attack, or flee. Keeping mechanics like wolves charging when you draw the bow or aim the rifle intact, of course.

I think it could be quite interesting, and definitely add more tension, and "spectacle" (something to keep the player immersed and interested) to the game.

*caveat ahead* 

As long as it doesn't kill performance for many players who do not have high-end rigs or the latest-greatest newest generation versions of PS4 or XBox One, to play the game on, and it does not drop fps to slide-show numbers, even on the lowest Quality settings.

[Ice Hole]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

On the higher difficulty levels, I think the animals should cease their interaction with each other as soon as they detect the player... and all focus their attack on the player.  That should make for a difficult challenge for those players who currently don't feel challenged enough... being charged by several wolves and a bear or moose at the same time.

So once the animal locks on to the character it will not be distracted.  Great idea.  This would make an excellent addition to the steadfast interloper wish list.

[ManicManiac]

I would submit that the current system works fine considering the gameplay and the analogs compared to predatory habits... after all a predator will generally opt for the easiest pickings.  After all any struggle comes with the risk of harm or death, and most animals avoid conflict when it's not necessary for survival (territory, food, breeding competition... are all necessities for survival - as I try to anticipate counterpoints  )

[ManicManiac]

I just meant to suggest that it would be interesting to see wolf/bear/moose encounters... maybe just a little scrap or stand off.

If those encounters produced carcasses, then from a gameplay stand point, I'd say it would cheapen the value of the hides because clever players could then just scavenge the results of the fight (which was not my intention when I posted the idea).  I just thought it would be interesting to see the other animals interacting with each other at little more than they do now.

Edited May 17, 2019 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

3 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

what is more likely frowned upon are people who would come into an old thread and ressurect it without adding anything to it

Fair enough @Mroz4k.

I did check through some of the older posts, but I figured I would just start a new conversation because I didn't find any that approached the topic quite the same way that I was trying to express...  If you folks do like the idea, I can see about flagging the attention of the team to see if they would weigh in on it.   

[ManicManiac]

3 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

I do see a technical issue here, though. You mentioned wolf pack meets one of the bigger animals and tries to "take them on" - problem is, this almost never really happens with the way animal AI is right now.

For this, we would need to have roaming animals first. Whether it is a bear, moose, or a pack of roaming wolves, there would need to be at least some animals roaming for these encounters to happen. I am a big fan of the idea that some animals would be roaming - it would add a sense of unpredictability to the game, keep the player aware and invested into the game at all times. Then I would very happily see these encounters happen on occasion in the game.

Also a good point.

Edited May 17, 2019 by ManicManiac