stapeliad

Steadfast Sprains & Pains

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I think sprains are playing too much of a role in making life challenging in TLD now.  They are being relied upon too heavily when in real life they are relatively uncommon, certainly not something that can happen twice in a few steps.  Tying sprains to weight encumbrance and fatigue virtually locks in the likelihood you are going to get a sprain under certain conditions.  If your stamina bar is a click less than 50% and you are .5 pounds over weight limit, and you venture up a hill, you are going to get a sprain in TLD now, maybe two or three.  If I kill a bear or moose high up on a steep slope, I'm going to be below 50% stamina after butchering it, and over the weight limit with two sacks of meat. Oddly, I used to rarely get a sprained loaded down with moose, tired at dusk.  Conversely, I always seemed to get a sprain (or two) cutting diagonally across the map to get from ML to the trappers cabin light and rested in the early morning.  From what I can tell, sprains are only reduced post-update by heeding the warning system and changing what you are doing.  I suspect sprains are statistically more likely now that they are also tied to fatigue and weight encumbrance.  There are so many other ways to make life challenging in TLD.  Occasionally getting a cut while butchering, getting blisters on your feet after walking all day with wet boots, getting a cold/fever, getting something in your eye, taking a tumble down a hill.  If there were more ways to incur injury or illness, and they all happened once in awhile, then the challenge/difficulty would still be there at the same level without  the  ridiculous experience of getting two sprained legs and a sprained wrist in the span of 30 paces (I have had this happen in TLD).

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Did more testing.  I have found that some slopes off the beaten path are essentially guaranteed to give the player a sprain even when unencumbered and well rested.  If the player persists in trying to get up these slopes, they wil continue to get sprains until all 4 limbs are sprained.  Some of these slopes are the common paths used to get to prepper caches in Mystery Lake.  Trying them at a low difficulty (Pilgrim) made no difference.  The hotfix 1.49 did completely correct the vast majority of sprains I was getting since 1.48; particularly those I had been getting while turning on level ground.  I now feel the mechanic is working as intended, but I do agree with others here that the sprain mechanic is being relied on too heavily to provide a challenge, particularly in Mystery Lake, which is a beginner's region.  I am of the opinion that this should be adjusted or the prepper cache spawns relocated to easier terrain since beginners may find this exceedingly frustrating.

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I have a pretty good idea of how the sprain mechanic works now and I know how to alter my play style to deal with it. I think my issue is that the mechanic forces me to change my playstyle in a way that I don't really like. I think the sprain frequency does need to be tweaked a little. 

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Yesterday I started a Voyageur run to see about the sprain frequency, I was maybe 4 days in and today my save file is just...gone.  This has never happened to me before and I'm honestly baffled.  I didn't die.  Last night I recall passing an hour to save the game, all was well and I shut down, today my Voyageur game is just... gone. 

Anyhow I was making a point to try and get sprains, walking up and down steep slopes VERY encumbered.  Result:  ONE sprain.  ONE.
Also, I forgot you can eat wolves in Voyageur mode, endless food, wow!

I don't really want to play in Voyageur mode and I think the days I spent in it is enough to say that the sprain frequency between stalker and voyageur modes is very different.
The frequency isn't an issue  as far as I found in Voyageur mode, even with carrying a stupid amount of weight on steep terrain.

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11 minutes ago, stapeliad said:

Yesterday I started a Voyageur run to see about the sprain frequency, I was maybe 4 days in and today my save file is just...gone.  This has never happened to me before and I'm honestly baffled.  I didn't die.  Last night I recall passing an hour to save the game, all was well and I shut down, today my Voyageur game is just... gone. 

Anyhow I was making a point to try and get sprains, walking up and down steep slopes VERY encumbered.  Result:  ONE sprain.  ONE.
Also, I forgot you can eat wolves in Voyageur mode, endless food, wow!

I don't really want to play in Voyageur mode and I think the days I spent in it is enough to say that the sprain frequency between stalker and voyageur modes is very different.
The frequency isn't an issue  as far as I found in Voyageur mode, even with carrying a stupid amount of weight on steep terrain.

I don't think it's that simple anymore.  My one character went 60 days with only the one sprain... and then I started looking for the prepper cache in Mystery Lake.  He promptly got 4 sprains in rapid succession and he was neither encumbered nor fatigued nor was I sprinting... and I was playing no differently than I had for his previous 59 days.  To look for the prepper caches, I was using the routes shown in Winterest's time-lapse video.  I thought I was getting a handle on it, but now I'm completely puzzled.  Maybe it's just purely RNG.

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Posted (edited)

I was in Milton on my Voyageur run.  ML was awful with sprains.  In my stalker run i cleared ML, CH, DP, and both the connectors between them. I got plenty of sprains in  CH and DP but more in ML... though I was there the longest so that might be why.

There are only three prepper caches I look for in ML, the others aren't really worth the trek IMHO unless you are in those parts of the map anyhow.

The one on the hill almost directly across from the Camp Office is the first one I always look for.  The second is the one on the ridge starting out by the fishing huts going up the ridge along Mystery Lake.  The third is on the hill near the yellow train car, if you are walking towards the dam it would be on the right on the incline.  (In my stalker run I had the prepper cache on the ridge by the fishing huts. That was a nice find.)

I'm just curious now, so I'll do a few days in Voyageur mode in ML to see.

Edited by stapeliad
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Posted (edited)

@upupandaway I think you may have a real point about the sprains in ML being worse than other regions.  I am certainly getting more in this run than I did in Milton, and I was  more overburdened in Milton.  The frequency is noticeably less than in Stalker which is to be expected, but thinking of the game in Voyageur experience I think it is too easy to get sprains.

As far as my play style I like to go everywhere.  I'm not intentionally reckless (usually, ha! I have been known to do serious downward rock-climbing, where a couple of sprains are expected) but I don't want to have to avoid areas of the map just because of sprains. 
ML is hilly and it can't be avoided if you want a decent experience.

I'm ending my Voyageur run because it isn't how I want to spend my time.  I'm not going to adapt my play style because I know that walking on my sprain or resting will still get it all nice and healed in a few hours, because that makes total sense, right?  :)

Sprains aside though, I really do love the rest of the new update.

Edited by stapeliad
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On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 10:46 AM, UpUpAway95 said:

Getting a "sprain risk" caution is really not a problem.  The ones you got while picking up stuff probably meant that you became overencumbered by adding the weight of that item to your inventory.  Carry less and leave yourself some room to pick up additional items and you'll see fewer cautions about sprain risk.

Since the hotfix, I've been only getting actual sprains on sloped terrain.  I can still get a sprain on sloped terrain when not overencumbered, but those seem to happen less frequently than before the hot fix.  I will get regularly get sprains if I am overencumbered and walking on a slope unless I slow down and crouch... then I often will be able to successful navigate the slope without a sprain.  I don't think that they are actually any more frequent, though, than before the update.  What I have noticed as a "benefit" of this new sprain system is that being overencumbered doesn't seem to slow my character's walk down as much as it used to.  So, even if the risk of getting sprains while overencumbered has been increased (and I don't think it actually has), I"m no longer slowed as much by merely being overencumbered... and I'm fine with that trade off.

Without any treatment at all, the pain will last 4 hours.   Sprained wrists will heal with 2 hours of sleep and sprained ankles will heal with 4 hours of sleep.  So, if you go to bed and sleep for 4 hours, everything will heal without any use of other resources.  I do think that perhaps they should make it such that pain from a sprained wrist will last only 2 hours since the sprain will heal with 2 hours of sleep.

 

This assumes that everyone plays as a nomad. Many do not, and this is a serious pain. I've reached the point where I can't actually take this game seriously any longer. For me, the constant updating to new and improved irritations just doesn't cut it. I truly miss the glorious lonely that was available at the beginning. Now, other than checking out one new run after an update, if I play at all it is with a custom run. I turn off blizzards, I turn the wind down to a teeny puff, I turn off sprains, and I turn off food poisoning. Hunting is just not the same since the initial nerfing of the rifle, I don't like the bow at all, and I'm unimpressed with the revolver. It's easier to scavenge every bit of man-made food while I loot without the risk of food poisoning, lug it all back to a base with no risk of sprains or annoying blizzards, and then decide to hunker down and live off the land … or go play something else again for a few months. And, in fairness, I set loot and other things to loper settings so life isn't all cozy like; but the bottom line is I'm tired of telling myself pretty lies to accept certain things.

I'm good with my 'created' long dark in another realm ~ where skill actually 'means' something, where those skills can be improved and realistically make life easier the longer I survive, where there are endless crafts to while away stormy weather, where I have an orphaned wolf pup I can feed and protect and then share adventures with, where the limitations aren't manufactured and tedious, but something to overcome, and where I can actually 'survive'. It's a place where I can snuggle in with a pile of good books if a blizzard is howling instead of being forced out into that blizzard (where my clothing is eaten) because some other players bragged about spamming the mechanics. It's a place where my clothing and weapons improve and protect me instead of being a true liability. It's a place with more weather and more darkness, but far more pure enjoyment. 

I've defended this game for 2200+ hours worth of game play. I've loved playing it, particularly the first two years. That doesn't change the fact that I've had my own expectations in the same way the developers had/have theirs. Neither is wrong ~ but the small gully between the two has grown to a yawning chasm now. I've more than gotten my money's worth. I've gifted the game several times. I just can't find a lot to love any longer. Most of what I did love has been nerfed and changed to suit a completely different game than the one I started playing. I honestly had some rather high hopes for this last update, but the trend of giving with one hand and taking away with the other has continued. The same goes for what I can only compare to itching powder as far as little annoyances. They aren't immersive or fun or engrossing. I used to binge play this game for 8-10 hours. Now I can barely manage an hour at a time, even with a new update. That's me. Others will get (and obviously getting) different mileage ~ and that is ok. It is also ok to state that for me I think the end is very near. It's also ok for me to say that I was so hoping that just once, the devs of a game with phenomenal potential wouldn't sell out to the "omg make it super hard for no good reason and forget about everything else" crowd. That is what I see … endless new regions with absolutely no real added content; just a choice of levels of how little loot and how many fuzzy zombies you want to deal with. Sigh.

Sorry Hinterland. There are still SO many good things about the game, but the bad things are more than I can take at this point. I will still look for your next game along with continuing to keep an eye on TLD. I'm just not expecting much in the way of changes at this point. Kinda sad about that. 

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Posted (edited)

That's too bad lowiaw :( I would give you my copy of version 1.21 if I could.

 

edit----------

Right, I forgot to reply to the topic. I am looking forward to trying the new sprain system myself. For me, it cannot be any worse than the old one because I simply turned them off before. Hopefully it will be good enough to leave on once I do try it.

Edited by odizzido

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47 minutes ago, odizzido said:

That's too bad lowiaw :( I would give you my copy of version 1.21 if I could.

 

edit----------

Right, I forgot to reply to the topic. I am looking forward to trying the new sprain system myself. For me, it cannot be any worse than the old one because I simply turned them off before. Hopefully it will be good enough to leave on once I do try it.

I'd cheerfully pay the current full price for a hard copy of the game with just ML lol. I prefer an actual hard copy of games that don't require the internet, even though there are some advantages ~ but for 'finished' games, the internet is not necessary. If I'd known what I know now I'd have kept that version on a separate computer without internet access. Sigh.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, loriaw said:

This assumes that everyone plays as a nomad. Many do not, and this is a serious pain. I've reached the point where I can't actually take this game seriously any longer. For me, the constant updating to new and improved irritations just doesn't cut it. I truly miss the glorious lonely that was available at the beginning. Now, other than checking out one new run after an update, if I play at all it is with a custom run. I turn off blizzards, I turn the wind down to a teeny puff, I turn off sprains, and I turn off food poisoning. Hunting is just not the same since the initial nerfing of the rifle, I don't like the bow at all, and I'm unimpressed with the revolver. It's easier to scavenge every bit of man-made food while I loot without the risk of food poisoning, lug it all back to a base with no risk of sprains or annoying blizzards, and then decide to hunker down and live off the land … or go play something else again for a few months. And, in fairness, I set loot and other things to loper settings so life isn't all cozy like; but the bottom line is I'm tired of telling myself pretty lies to accept certain things.

I'm good with my 'created' long dark in another realm ~ where skill actually 'means' something, where those skills can be improved and realistically make life easier the longer I survive, where there are endless crafts to while away stormy weather, where I have an orphaned wolf pup I can feed and protect and then share adventures with, where the limitations aren't manufactured and tedious, but something to overcome, and where I can actually 'survive'. It's a place where I can snuggle in with a pile of good books if a blizzard is howling instead of being forced out into that blizzard (where my clothing is eaten) because some other players bragged about spamming the mechanics. It's a place where my clothing and weapons improve and protect me instead of being a true liability. It's a place with more weather and more darkness, but far more pure enjoyment. 

I've defended this game for 2200+ hours worth of game play. I've loved playing it, particularly the first two years. That doesn't change the fact that I've had my own expectations in the same way the developers had/have theirs. Neither is wrong ~ but the small gully between the two has grown to a yawning chasm now. I've more than gotten my money's worth. I've gifted the game several times. I just can't find a lot to love any longer. Most of what I did love has been nerfed and changed to suit a completely different game than the one I started playing. I honestly had some rather high hopes for this last update, but the trend of giving with one hand and taking away with the other has continued. The same goes for what I can only compare to itching powder as far as little annoyances. They aren't immersive or fun or engrossing. I used to binge play this game for 8-10 hours. Now I can barely manage an hour at a time, even with a new update. That's me. Others will get (and obviously getting) different mileage ~ and that is ok. It is also ok to state that for me I think the end is very near. It's also ok for me to say that I was so hoping that just once, the devs of a game with phenomenal potential wouldn't sell out to the "omg make it super hard for no good reason and forget about everything else" crowd. That is what I see … endless new regions with absolutely no real added content; just a choice of levels of how little loot and how many fuzzy zombies you want to deal with. Sigh.

Sorry Hinterland. There are still SO many good things about the game, but the bad things are more than I can take at this point. I will still look for your next game along with continuing to keep an eye on TLD. I'm just not expecting much in the way of changes at this point. Kinda sad about that. 

Not sure what I said that deserved you unloading such a lengthy rant in response to that post.  I've been testing and testing just trying to get a full understanding of the sprain mechanic.  The "sprain risk" caution does nothing in and of itself to either increase or decrease the number of sprains a player gets.  In effect, it is essentially just telling the player (in a more noticeable way) that they have exceeded their carry weight.  It used to flash on whenever the player entered a building, but Hinterlands did remove that.

The factors that cause the sprains to happen, I don't think have intentionally changed at all.  Which means that they are as unmanageable as they ever were.  After 1.48, I had a huge increase in the number of sprains I was getting in that I started getting them on level ground whenever I was overencumbered and turned around quickly.  That part does seem to have been fixed as well.  As for sprains on slopes, my most recent character when 60 days with only one sprain and I thought I had stumbled on a method for truly preventing them... then I went looking for caches in ML and that all fell apart as I got 4 sprains in rapid succession  taking the mapped routes up to the caches sites and my character was neither tired nor overencumbered nor was I sprinting or otherwise being careless.  It just happened.

I understand your frustration with this.  I'm as frustrated with it as you are since it doesn't appear to be the sort of mechanic that can be logically understood and, therefore, controlled by the player''s actions.  I had hopes that, with the warnings, there would be something the player could logically do to avoid them, but that does not now appear to be the case.  My preference is also to turn them off in the custom settings.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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Posted (edited)

I am reversing my stance on the topic of sprains. Until recently I was convinced it was an example of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, but recent experiences have changed my mind.  There are several hills in the game, which I am quite used to traversing in various conditions (exhausted, rested, encumbered, traveling light, injured, fine, etc) and I've been getting hit with a sprain each time I climb them.  Prior to the Steadfast Ranger release, I honestly can't recall the last time I received a sprain during these routine journeys.  Barring extremes of course, like traveling 20kg over the limit while exhausted.  It's been years, literally.  One example of a hill is the steep incline, leading from the PV Farmhouse to Signal Hill, kind of by the bear cave, and one of the ropes.  I've hoofed that slope for literal years, got maybe one or two sprains that I can recall.  In the past weekend, every single time I make that trek, I bust an ankle.

That said, I can deal with it.  It's frustrating, but I can deal.

Edited by ajb1978
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3 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Not sure what I said that deserved you unloading such a lengthy rant in response to that post.  I've been testing and testing just trying to get a full understanding of the sprain mechanic.  The "sprain risk" caution does nothing in and of itself to either increase or decrease the number of sprains a player gets.  In effect, it is essentially just telling the player (in a more noticeable way) that they have exceeded their carry weight.  It used to flash on whenever the player entered a building, but Hinterlands did remove that.

The factors that cause the sprains to happen, I don't think have intentionally changed at all.  Which means that they are as unmanageable as they ever were.  After 1.48, I had a huge increase in the number of sprains I was getting in that I started getting them on level ground whenever I was overencumbered and turned around quickly.  That part does seem to have been fixed as well.  As for sprains on slopes, my most recent character when 60 days with only one sprain and I thought I had stumbled on a method for truly preventing them... then I went looking for caches in ML and that all fell apart as I got 4 sprains in rapid succession  taking the mapped routes up to the caches sites and my character was neither tired nor overencumbered nor was I sprinting or otherwise being careless.  It just happened.

I understand your frustration with this.  I'm as frustrated with it as you are since it doesn't appear to be the sort of mechanic that can be logically understood and, therefore, controlled by the player''s actions.  I had hopes that, with the warnings, there would be something the player could logically do to avoid them, but that does not now appear to be the case.  My preference is also to turn them off in the custom settings.

The rant isn't a rant so much as a lament ~ and it isn't directed at you. It is about player control over their game, the constant mechanic jiggles that force each of us to redesign and change our playstyle, and in general make it burdensome rather than enjoyable to just play this game. 

Why should I change my trek from my preferred paths to those that don't show an annoying red blotch on the screen (and incidentally guide every player closer to wolves) after four years of learning paths that keep me away from the fuzzy demons? Why must I change the amount I've carried from point A to point B after four years for the same reason? The bottom line, for me, is that there are better reasons and time fritterers to cause me to fill up my swear jar. The devs need to control how everyone plays in sandbox mode as well as in Story mode has made the game just about unplayable for many (not just this last update ~ it is cumulative). For three years I've watched them add a fetric muckton of 'mechanics' that overshadows the content. If they had spent more time on immersion instead of fretting about those who found ways to spam the mechanics, they would have an end product that would be hard to beat. Instead, playing has become the equivalent of trying to clean a house full of toddlers (for lack of any better description). I'm too old for that.

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Posted (edited)

@loriaw you bring up a good point regarding impact on play style.  Like you, I am over 4 years into the game with a few thousand hours logged (gulp), and we probably have a different perspective on how we are willing (or not willing in my case) to modify our play style to work around new changes that seem to cause interference just for the sake of it.  Because we have put so much time into it and we have learned over time and many deaths what works and what doesn't.  And the sprains don't seem to be an improvement in the game play, but a hindrance, because we already know how to play and are past the initial learning curve.  And that makes a difference.

It is true about The Long Dark that up to a certain point survival does not get easier the longer you are able to live.  Even if you can stave off the cold with crafted clothing, you still have to maintain it.  So unlike other games the basic struggle to stay alive doesn't ever really decrease.  I like this about TLD because otherwise it gets really boring.

One could say just go into custom mode and turn off sprains or adjust it, but in custom mode you don't get any credit towards achievements and I still need a few.  Plus, the "prepackaged" modes should be properly playable.

It's also noteworthy to remember that the initial intention for this game was not supposed to ultimately be a survival sandbox game- it was testing for the story mode development.  I think that is in large part why we get so far with the sandbox and kind of come to a halt.

It's still a special game because of the solitude and visual beauty.  Right now I'm a little TLD'd out as I feel I have explored the new update to my satisfaction.  I'll play again with the next update or game event.  In the meantime I do hope the devs really consider the feedback about the sprains.

Edited by stapeliad

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4 hours ago, ajb1978 said:

 There are several hills in the game, which I am quite used to traversing in various conditions (exhausted, rested, encumbered, traveling light, injured, fine, etc) and I've been getting hit with a sprain each time I climb them. 

That's what I dislike about the new system as well. At first I was excited for it showing me more clearly where I am at risk of getting a sprain but I didn't realize that they upped the chances severaly to a point where some paths will give you a sprain guaranteed. It's unfair to players who have spend hundreds of hours in the game figuring out the safest route from A to B and now they can't take that route anymore because they WILL get a sprain. Granted it was always a trade-off between being moderately safe from wolves (sometimes they surprised you on the "safe" path) and a minor risk for getting a sprain - which happened roughly once every ten times I travelled a certain path if at all, but now it's almost always, with a grace period between the warning and getting a sprain no longer than Weak Ice.

For example if you travel from Trapper's towards Tunnel Collapse there will most likely always be a wolf patroling between the rails and below into the forest. But if you hug the cliff on the right side and go up the slope a bit, you could sneak past the wolf without him noticing you. Now? You can still take that route but you will end up with a sprain. Same with hiking up towards Rabbit Grove in CH following the frozen river. I don't think I'll ever got a sprain while hiking on the hills left of the river to avoid the bear and wolves, now the game wants me to actively seek confrontation with the beasts or get a sprain.

Yes there are other paths which lead to the same location but they will also put you in the same dilemma, either fight a wolf (and get probably a sprained wrist anyway) or avoid the places where wolves are (which most of the times means somewhere uphill) and get a sprain almost for sure. In some places you might succeed in luring a wolf away with stones, leading to you carrying tons of stones and throwing them blindly where ever you think there might be one but cmon, I'm not playing TLD to have an animal tamer experience. Simply put: this is no fun.

Please revert the chance of getting a sprain back to Pre-Steadfast levels but keep the indicator and new healing mechanism. After hundreds of days surviving in the wilderness alone our protagonist should be confident enough in he's abilities to judge when he is risking a sprain and should only very rarely misjudge the situation. Now it feels like playing a city kid on high heels.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

Granted it was always a trade-off between being moderately safe from wolves (sometimes they surprised you on the "safe" path) and a minor risk for getting a sprain

Well that's actually part of my real appreciation for the revolver, especially at level 5.  I can pull that bad boy out and plug a wolf in the face, killing it outright about 75% of the time, without triggering a charge.  I've had to adjust my tactics somewhat by choosing more dangerous routes, but with that revolver by my side, I have no fear.

Of course the ammo is finite...but I've got over 400 rounds in reserve.  I'm not worried yet.  (Edit: Custom game, loot tables cranked to an 11, and this was before revolver ammo boxes was tuned from 12 rounds down to 10.  I think like 3 ammo box pickups out of the entirety had 10 rounds, the rest were the original 12, and it adds up.)

Edited by ajb1978

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22 hours ago, Gravos said:

I have a pretty good idea of how the sprain mechanic works now and I know how to alter my play style to deal with it. I think my issue is that the mechanic forces me to change my playstyle in a way that I don't really like. I think the sprain frequency does need to be tweaked a little. 

I'm of a similar opinion. It is forcing/punishing me into a playstyle.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, stapeliad said:

@loriaw you bring up a good point regarding impact on play style.  Like you, I am over 4 years into the game with a few thousand hours logged (gulp), and we probably have a different perspective on how we are willing (or not willing in my case) to modify our play style to work around new changes that seem to cause interference just for the sake of it.  Because we have put so much time into it and we have learned over time and many deaths what works and what doesn't.  And the sprains don't seem to be an improvement in the game play, but a hindrance, because we already know how to play and are past the initial learning curve.  And that makes a difference.

It is true about The Long Dark that up to a certain point survival does not get easier the longer you are able to live.  Even if you can stave off the cold with crafted clothing, you still have to maintain it.  So unlike other games the basic struggle to stay alive doesn't ever really decrease.  I like this about TLD because otherwise it gets really boring.

One could say just go into custom mode and turn off sprains or adjust it, but in custom mode you don't get any credit towards achievements and I still need a few.  Plus, the "prepackaged" modes should be properly playable.

It's also noteworthy to remember that the initial intention for this game was not supposed to ultimately be a survival sandbox game- it was testing for the story mode development.  I think that is in large part why we get so far with the sandbox and kind of come to a halt.

It's still a special game because of the solitude and visual beauty.  Right now I'm a little TLD'd out as I feel I have explored the new update to my satisfaction.  I'll play again with the next update or game event.  In the meantime I do hope the devs really consider the feedback about the sprains.

Incorrect - In custom, you do get credit for Achievements.  You don't advance the progress in the Feats, but Achievements are absolutely still obtainable in a Custom game. 

I don't mind the game causing me to reconsider my playstyle and to devise new strategies... causing me, as Raphael put it, to make thoughtful decisions.  The sprain system, however, is ultimately RNG.  You can do everything "right" (i.e. the same strategies that successfully avoided getting sprains for 60 days... and then using an established path (the only one you can really take) to get to an ingame objective (like a prepper cache) in a zone identified as "for beginners" in the easiest difficulty level of the game... and be hit with 4 sprains in rapid succession while neither encumbered nor tired.  In my mind, it's not a mechanic that is promoting the making of thoughtful decisions.  If promoting thoughtful decisions is Hinterland's intent, then this mechanic is still not working as intended.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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34 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

Well that's actually part of my real appreciation for the revolver, especially at level 5.  I can pull that bad boy out and plug a wolf in the face, killing it outright about 75% of the time, without triggering a charge.

Good luck with this approach in Interloper :D

 

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24 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Incorrect - In custom, you do get credit for Achievements.  You don't advance the progress in the Feats, but Achievements are absolutely still obtainable in a Custom game

Really?  that's good to know, thanks.  I already have all the feat badges so maybe I will just switch to custom and dial down those sprains.

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39 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Incorrect - In custom, you do get credit for Achievements.  You don't advance the progress in the Feats, but Achievements are absolutely still obtainable in a Custom game. 

I don't mind the game causing me to reconsider my playstyle and to devise new strategies... causing me, as Raphael put it, to make thoughtful decisions.  The sprain system, however, is ultimately RNG.  You can do everything "right" (i.e. the same strategies that successfully avoided getting sprains for 60 days... and then using an established path (the only one you can really take) to get to an ingame objective (like a prepper cache) in a zone identified as "for beginners" in the easiest difficulty level of the game... and be hit with 4 sprains in rapid succession while neither encumbered nor tired.  In my mind, it's not a mechanic that is promoting the making of thoughtful decisions.  If promoting thoughtful decisions is Hinterland's intent, then this mechanic is still not working as intended.

I agree with you 100% except for the new mechanics forcing me to change 'my' playstyle. My playstyle is mine. If I'm not 'playing', I'm not enjoying. I'm not looking forward to playing. If I want to play something with that much of a funneled, linear path, defined more by RNG than skill, I'd choose Monopoly (which actually has more choices at this point). At least if I rage quit and toss the board across the room I only have to pick up the pieces. I'm playing on a brand new custom rig and I'm sort of protective of it lol. 

I could care less how guided and limited Story mode is ~ but a sandbox should be a sandbox. In a single player game you can't even throw sand at another player, and how or why a person plays the way they do should not be a concern of the devs. Whether a person dives in and immerses themselves, or only plays to cheat shouldn't matter. It affects no one but themselves. 

We lost the leaderboards because people were cheating (and I'm using the term 'cheating' with the devs definition) ~ which is when I lost interest in the achievements.
They gave us feats but limited them according to level (nevermind that players could easily have done so themselves ~ the end result was losing another choice).
A few people carpeted their homes with wolf pelts and we lost the only true balance between 'us' and 'nature' (ignoring the fact that those wolves are the central danger) ~ the rifle ~ for a long time. Oh, it was there … but you had to pretend to be drunk to use it. 
The added the bow but we aren't allowed to sneak or crouch to use it until level 5.
The rifle and the limited ammo is more like a nerf gun until level 5 (speaking as someone that OWNS the real rifle). Sorry, but the game version … sucks.

The list is rather endless after three years. Hold out something new with one hand while the other one is sneaking around taking things ~ things that made the game enjoyable.
There have been far more 'mechanics' added than content, and every one of them has no basis beyond funneling players into 'their' vision. That is not a sandbox, and that is the crux of my discontent.

I consider playing on custom and turning off blizzards and food poisoning a 'cheat'. That is also part of why I'm just not enjoying the game at this point, despite the fact that it is a reflex to the myriad mechanics. I don't cheat ~ and there was a time when I didn't have to just to try and grind out an hour of play. There were days when both myself and my husband binged on this game, ordered pizza so we didn't have to stop playing other than to answer the door, and were totally engrossed. I've already altered and changed and adapted 'my' playstyle to the point where it is not MINE. I don't want to juggle mechanics, I just want to play a game. Shrugs. 

Apologies again because this isn't aimed at 'you'.

 

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Posted (edited)

Out of Mystery lake and the sprain, the system seems quite reasonable. I've even been walkin on inclines with over a hundred pounds. Made my way out to desolation point and picked up some heavy clothes. In Mystery lake, I can barely get around with 65.  Mystery lake could be as easy to traverse if the wolves weren't on all the flat spots. They force you into hilly shortcuts.  I have really grown to enjoy mountain climbing though.

 

Its as if I'm getting punished for having fun. Instead I trudge around the Long Coastal highway, stay on the boring scenery and of course, keep my pistol drawn American style. Maybe these heavy clothes are helping but all the posts say they have no effect. By-By Mystery lake, You were my first.

Edited by Muestereate

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Posted (edited)

Jumping in here to say I have no problem with the new sprain mechanic. Yes, it's forced me to re-think how I'm going to traverse certain ground, and I get very nervous when a bleeding animal I'm tracking scales a steep slope, but that's the hand I'm dealt. And I don't mind that at all.

Edited by GothSkunk

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4 hours ago, GothSkunk said:

Jumping in here to say I have no problem with the new sprain mechanic. Yes, it's forced me to re-think how I'm going to traverse certain ground, and I get very nervous when a bleeding animal I'm tracking scales a steep slope, but that's the hand I'm dealt. And I don't mind that at all.

What's the point in having all of these huge maps to explore with a lot of steep terrain if you are constantly worried about how you are going to traverse the map?

It's essentially forcing players to only walk mainly on the flat or in valleys and thus into areas where the wildlife lives. We've learnt the landscape over time and where the dangers are and now we are being encouraged to stay away from the hills and our favourite routes. It's not as if the wildlife locations are random each game.
 
I was tracking a deer from the main lodge in ML up over the hills and got two hand sprains within 30s of each other, unencumbered and rested. Then a few minutes later I was standing on a slope, not moving and got an ankle sprain. So now we can't track animals over hilly terrain? The way the blood trails seem to work, you have to follow them or they don't show up.

I like the rest of the update, but the sprain frequency is very annoying, I've basically given up playing until a solution can be found. I don't want to turn off sprains because I'm working on feats. 

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16 hours ago, Muestereate said:

Out of Mystery lake and the sprain, the system seems quite reasonable. I've even been walkin on inclines with over a hundred pounds. Made my way out to desolation point and picked up some heavy clothes. In Mystery lake, I can barely get around with 65.  Mystery lake could be as easy to traverse if the wolves weren't on all the flat spots. They force you into hilly shortcuts.  I have really grown to enjoy mountain climbing though.

 

Its as if I'm getting punished for having fun. Instead I trudge around the Long Coastal highway, stay on the boring scenery and of course, keep my pistol drawn American style. Maybe these heavy clothes are helping but all the posts say they have no effect. By-By Mystery lake, You were my first.

My new game has started in Mystery Lake and I have seen a ridiculous amount of sprains. I agree it's forcing me to stay on the flay and away from the interesting terrain. 

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