The Long Dark Hotfixed to V1.49 [47860]

[UpUpAway95]

Yay, Xbox version of this update is now Live... I'm updating as typing this.  Thanks Raphael and Hinterland team for looking into the delay.  You're the best.

[UpUpAway95]

Just now, Hawk said:

Sadly I'm still waiting for GOG to release the 1.49 Hotfix. I guess it will be Monday or Tuesday. That's after such a fast release of 1.48.1 - only 3 days, the fastest they've ever released a patch or update for TLD.

Sorry to hear you're still waiting.

[Guest kristaok]

5 minutes ago, Tri13 said:

I'm finna be a cowboy when I find I the revolver also please add a dual wielding feature in the game so I can feel like a legit cowboy.

I always was one for Westerns  

[Ape88]

23 hours ago, Sceh said:

I'm still curious why I sprained my ankle stepping out of a fishing hut. There was a slope indicator just as you go through the door. Is this an intended feature? Is the 3cm drop between fishing hut floor and ice considered a slope?

If it was me irl, I imagine stepping onto the ice even from only a couple inches ledge could be risky for a fall.

[Admin]

Just a heads-up that the Rifle and Bow aiming fix should hit this upcoming Monday or Tuesday (Pacific time).

[SunsetCrawdad25]

18 hours ago, Duskfountain4 said:

Please add a custom setting for the revolver in next hotfix

Yes. Please clarify the custom settings for the revolver. Overall Resorces on low does not seem to spawn revolvers or ammo, even with Rifle Availability on. Thx, 

 

[GothSkunk]

14 hours ago, Admin said:

Just a heads-up that the Rifle and Bow aiming fix should hit this upcoming Monday or Tuesday (Pacific time).

Yay! Thank you!

[Arran]

17 hours ago, Admin said:

Just a heads-up that the Rifle and Bow aiming fix should hit this upcoming Monday or Tuesday (Pacific time).

Great news

Its really bad feeling missing wolf from distance like 10m.

[peteloud]

Revolvers, sprains & icepicks

I found a revolver in ML.  I checked almost every possible location and was about to give up, then I found it.  I found another in PV.  A few people had mentioned where they found a revolver in PV so I went there, and sure enough, it was there. That was too easy.  I haven't fired it yet.  I prefer the bow & arrow.

 

I've had no unreasonable sprains since v1.49.   I had one crash with v1.49.  I can't remember exactly when it occurred, but it was different to crashes with v1.48. . . . . Since adding this comment I have been sat in my garden, with a glass of wine, thinking about the sprains I suffered today.  I was goating around on very, very steep terrain which was a mixture of rocks and snow.  In such circumstances a broken limb would be more likely than a simple sprain.  Perhaps it would be more realistic to reduce the number of sprains in trivial activities and introduce a new more serious injury.  Although it might be more realistic, it would affect experienced players who are into adventurous goating.  It would not be good to discourage that.

 

In a couple of the Lara Croft, Tomb Raider games there is a quite of a lot of ice climbing.  It is very well done.

Edited May 11, 2019 by peteloud

[Stiofan63]

On 5/10/2019 at 2:07 AM, diggity said:

I'm not sure they are. Doesn't seem like it.  And I'm a little frustrated with the new sprain system, specifically this:

"Keep in mind that the Slope indicator is meant to be a warning, similar to Weak Ice. " 

Ok, but the issue there is a person can't see if the ice is weak or not. Ice can be tricky.  On a slope you can see exactly what it is.  I don't need an indicator to tell me it's steep, I can see that.

What I need is it to be less risky in the first place.   In rl I've done many hikes in the mountains,  some quite steep and slippery and not once have I had a sprained ankle, nor did anyone I was with.   I don't think it's just luck.  You have to do something pretty crazy or be real unlucky to sprain your ankle.

And what if I want to go around a wolf or bear and the way past is steep?  Feels like I'm being forced now to fight the wolf to avoid the sprain.

Also, having the risk indicator flash on and off when I overfill the pack a bit is annoying.

And this:

"You might have become accustomed to spidering along the environment or walking up (or down) slopes that should have triggered sprains but didn't for a variety of reasons. This means that you may have to ADAPT your traversal of the world "

Excuse me but isn't "spidering along dangerous slopes" more or less the meaning of adapting to the traversal of the world? This world anyway.  Whatever happened to the road less taken? 

My two cents.  Don't mean to harp on this but imo sprains should only occur when you're a) exhausted and b) it's very very steep or you jump or fall over 10 feet.

Otherwise Mack and Astrid should be pretty spry by now.
 

When I was 17 I went on an Outward Bound excursion.  Most of the people on that excursion were city folk with little to no hiking experience, I was the youngest.  Granted we all had hiking boots, this was a 21 day trip so we were outfitted for it.  We hiked through SE Utah, Canyonlands and Monti La Sal forest.  There was only one incident when a lady stepped into a probable gopher hole and tumbled down a steep, thankfully grassy, hillside landing head first on every bounce.  As she was wearing her solid frame pack rather high it took all the impacts and she had only a sprained ankle from the initial miss-step.  Obviously things would be a tad different with snow & ice involved.  Based on my plays on the newer system, PC so 1.49, I think the sprain system is a tad overdone still.  Especially the sounds of it.  I've had sprains, some severe and never any sounds on bones breaking (I keep expecting to see compound fractures after that sound) or loud screams of pain (maybe I'm just that quiet).  I almost crap myself every time my toon gets a sprain. 

[Stiofan63]

I started a custom no-stress (based on pilgrim) game and started in DP.  I did find a pistol and decided to try it on a wolf that I encountered on the trail to the lighthouse.  He was already running around all over the hills and rocks there (not a single sprain.  Wolves do not even have ankle support shoes on. 🙂 )  I know I hit him 3 times probably 4.  That slowed him down and I finished him with the bow I found at Katy's Corner.  Those shells look like .38's or at least .30's.  I don't think a wolf would still be walking around after 4 hits at close range, <20 feet.  Unless that's intended to be a .10 caliber or something I really think it's way under modeled.  Maybe I only winged him 3 times? 🙂

[Guest kristaok]

14 minutes ago, Stiofan63 said:

I started a custom no-stress (based on pilgrim) game and started in DP.  I did find a pistol and decided to try it on a wolf that I encountered on the trail to the lighthouse.  He was already running around all over the hills and rocks there (not a single sprain.  Wolves do not even have ankle support shoes on. 🙂 )  I know I hit him 3 times probably 4.  That slowed him down and I finished him with the bow I found at Katy's Corner.  Those shells look like .38's or at least .30's.  I don't think a wolf would still be walking around after 4 hits at close range, <20 feet.  Unless that's intended to be a .10 caliber or something I really think it's way under modeled.  Maybe I only winged him 3 times? 🙂

Sometimes they are not mortally wounded (shot in the heart or head), that may be why. 

[ajb1978]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:51 PM, Raphael van Lierop said:

From a tuning perspective, the Revolver is not less common than the Rifle.

It may be that this is due to me playing a Custom game, but the Revolver is tremendously less common, by a ratio of about 5:1.  I've found precisely two revolvers, but at least 10 rifles so far.

Edited May 12, 2019 by ajb1978

[Raphael van Lierop]

16 hours ago, Stiofan63 said:

When I was 17 I went on an Outward Bound excursion.  Most of the people on that excursion were city folk with little to no hiking experience, I was the youngest.  Granted we all had hiking boots, this was a 21 day trip so we were outfitted for it.  We hiked through SE Utah, Canyonlands and Monti La Sal forest.  There was only one incident when a lady stepped into a probable gopher hole and tumbled down a steep, thankfully grassy, hillside landing head first on every bounce.  As she was wearing her solid frame pack rather high it took all the impacts and she had only a sprained ankle from the initial miss-step.  Obviously things would be a tad different with snow & ice involved.  Based on my plays on the newer system, PC so 1.49, I think the sprain system is a tad overdone still.  Especially the sounds of it.  I've had sprains, some severe and never any sounds on bones breaking (I keep expecting to see compound fractures after that sound) or loud screams of pain (maybe I'm just that quiet).  I almost crap myself every time my toon gets a sprain. 

Please, people. This is a GAME. Stop quoting your real life hiking/outdoor/camping/survival excursions as a reason for why something should be tuned differently.

I've spent a lot of time outdoors in my life, including hiking on some pretty treacherous terrain. I've never had a sprain in my life. I've also lived in very cold parts of the world and done a lot of winter camping. Never had frostbite. Have had a lot of water when thirsty and never had dysentery. Etc. I get it. Move on.

[Raphael van Lierop]

3 hours ago, Stiofan63 said:

I started a custom no-stress (based on pilgrim) game and started in DP.  I did find a pistol and decided to try it on a wolf that I encountered on the trail to the lighthouse.  He was already running around all over the hills and rocks there (not a single sprain.  Wolves do not even have ankle support shoes on. 🙂 )  I know I hit him 3 times probably 4.  That slowed him down and I finished him with the bow I found at Katy's Corner.  Those shells look like .38's or at least .30's.  I don't think a wolf would still be walking around after 4 hits at close range, <20 feet.  Unless that's intended to be a .10 caliber or something I really think it's way under modeled.  Maybe I only winged him 3 times? 🙂

Same note as above. Please do not try to use your familiarity with firearms as a way to judge the game mechanics. Things are tuned to create interesting gameplay, not to conform to real-world expectations or your hunting experience, etc.

[ThePancakeLady]

1 hour ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Please, people. This is a GAME. Stop quoting your real life hiking/outdoor/camping/survival excursions as a reason for why something should be tuned differently.

I've spent a lot of time outdoors in my life, including hiking on some pretty treacherous terrain. I've never had a sprain in my life. I've also lived in very cold parts of the world and done a lot of winter camping. Never had frostbite. Have drank a lot of water and never had dysentery. Etc. I get it. Move on.

 

1 hour ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Same note as above. Please do not try to use your familiarity with firearms as a way to judge the game mechanics. Things are tuned to create interesting gameplay, not to conform to real-world expectations or your hunting experience, etc.

 

[UpUpAway95]

9 hours ago, ajb1978 said:

It may be that this is due to me playing a Custom game, but the Revolver is tremendously less common, by a ratio of about 5:1.  I've found precisely two revolvers, but at least 10 rifles so far.

After mostly clearing Mountain Town yet again and finding 4 rifles and 1 revolver (which was yet again only found under Gray Mother's bed), I'm prepared to say that something must be interfering with the intended 'tuning" aspect because the revolver is consistently no where near as common as the rifle.  In addition, I am also only finding the very occasional round of revolver ammo in this particular run (5 rounds in total) as opposed to 19 rounds of rifle ammo).  This is inconsistent with past starts, so I'm not prepared to say yet that something is awry with the RNG regarding ammo... I will test it all again in another new start.  For clarity, all my starts to test the new mechanics have been in Pilgrim mode.

Edited May 12, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[UpUpAway95]

Since I've been doing several new Pilgrim starts to test various game mechanics, I have noticed an inconsistency in the aiming of stones between the runs and am left wondering if this isn't also affecting the aiming of the rifle and the bow.  In one of my runs, I literally could not miss a rabbit with a stone even when the stone was thrown intentionally to miss the rabbit by more than a foot.  The rabbit would be knocked out every throw regardless.  On my most recent run, I'm having the opposite problem, stones that appear to be right on target to hit the rabbits are not causing them to react at all (it almost appears like the collision is missing on many of these throws).

For the record, I've not had any issues with rifle aiming on any playthorugh and the one playthrough where I did obtain a bow and arrows, I had no aiming issues there either.  That said, if it is as inconsistent as my stone throws have proven to be, that could be an issue affecting some players and not others.  Just a thought.... I'll keep testing.

[Raphael van Lierop]

2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

After mostly clearing Mountain Town yet again and finding 4 rifles and 1 revolver (which was yet again only found under Gray Mother's bed), I'm prepared to say that something must be interfering with the intended 'tuning" aspect because the revolver is consistently no where near as common as the rifle.  In addition, I am also only finding the very occasional round of revolver ammo in this particular run (5 rounds in total) as opposed to 19 rounds of rifle ammo).  This is inconsistent with past starts, so I'm not prepared to say yet that something is awry with the RNG regarding ammo... I will test it all again in another new start.  For clarity, all my starts to test the new mechanics have been in Pilgrim mode.

We'll take a look. A better test would be across multiple regions in the game world. The "population" of tools like Rifles, Revolvers, etc. is across the game world and not limited to each region. 

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

We'll take a look. A better test would be across multiple regions in the game world. The "population" of tools like Rifles, Revolvers, etc. is across the game world and not limited to each region. 

I agree.  I'm doing a CH start right now; but it's not really practical for me to try to test all the regions or at higher difficulties (I'm simply not that good at surviving long enough to thoroughly search).  I'm thinking though that you, as a dev, probably have a quicker way around this and whatever you ultimately find will be more accurate than anything I can do on this end.  You also have the advantage on knowing how you might be intentionally manipulating spawns in certain zones to balance things rather than relying on straight RNG.

Thank you though for noticing my post and responding.  As I've said before... You're the best.

Edited May 12, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[ajb1978]

2 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

We'll take a look. A better test would be across multiple regions in the game world. The "population" of tools like Rifles, Revolvers, etc. is across the game world and not limited to each region. 

I've got over half the game world looted on my current Custom game.  Mountain Town, Broken Railroad, Forlorn Muskeg, Hushed River Valley, Mystery Lake, Raven Falls Ravine, Winding River, and about 90% of Pleasant Valley.  I've got the loot spawns cranked to an 11.  I've lost count of the rifles, but's around 15.  I have found exactly 3 revolvers so far.

[ManicManiac]

I've seen a lot of weirdness on the forums this past week.  It's one thing for us to give honest feedback, and it's another to sort of try to browbeat the team that has been working for years to bring us a better experience with each iteration.  As a community we need to keep things in perspective.  Change is going to happen, and with anything that is changed or introduced there will be a period of adjustment... both for players and for those changes to get fine tuned by the team until things are working as they intended.

To be clear, I'm not speaking to/about anyone in particular, I am trying to address the whole community.  We all have to take things in stride, there maybe bumps and snags along the way as the team continues to try and expand and improve this game for us.  It's fine for us to offer suggestions and give feedback, but we need to recognize the line where we go from trying to be helpful to being just pushy/demanding.  Also, to remember that as things grow and change things may not go we expect them too... getting aggressive and hostile won't help whatever thing you're upset about.

Let's all remain calm.  Let's give the team room to work.  Let's not dwell on things we already know they are working to fix/tune.  Let's try to avoid being pushy with our opinions.  Let's try to temper that odd sense of outrage I have seen littered throughout the forums over the last week or so with a little more perspective.  I know that since I signed on for early access on the late end of 2014 this game has grown by leaps and bounds, and I think that if we look at it objectively the game overall has vastly improved in that time.

To those who've tried to be voices of reason, keep it up.  It's clear that it's needed most during patch time  

Edited May 12, 2019 by ManicManiac

[Raphael van Lierop]

On 5/12/2019 at 9:28 AM, diggity said:

Fair enough, please don't get upset, we're just talking.  I love the game, perhaps too much, that's why when something changes that doesn't feel quite right I might get a little crusty about it. Change is hard, right?

Not at all upset.  Just trying to illustrate how silly it can be to apply real-world experience to a game. Not that games shouldn't be taken seriously or held to a high standard, which we hope people do for The Long Dark, but just the argument of "things don't happen this way in real life therefore this system is bad" is really unhelpful, even though it feels like a useful argument. 

[Grignard_TN]

3 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Not at all upset.  Just trying to illustrate how silly it can be to apply real-world experience to a game. Not that games shouldn't be taken seriously or held to a high standard, which we hope people do for The Long Dark, but just the argument of "things don't happen this way in real life therefore this system is bad" is really unhelpful, even though it feels like a useful argument. 

   

@Raphael van Lierop

  You sound frustrated, and you know as well as I do you'll never be able to please every player, even for a niche game such as this. Forgive me if I'm presumptuous, but in my minds eye I can see the 1000+ realism criticisms pulsing in your head like a migraine when you wrote that post. At the end of the day you have to make a design decision and sometimes that doesn't involve realism.

      Before I say anything that even suggests criticism of the game, let alone you and your team ( its not my intent anyhow here), I'll say yet one more time that I've simply never seen any game developer ( excepting *maybe* some early MMO titles like UO) respond so quickly and honestly to their players. Your forums are well moderated, and even if the mods choose to warn someone about their disruptive behavior, your team is professional and polite in my experience. 

     This said, I think there is a lot of value in some degree of realism, and I don't think you can say that you haven't made many concessions to realism ( the sprain mechanic in general. I like it, though I honestly think there are plenty of folks that would hate having such a mechanic at all, and I think the game would still be quite playable and fair without it ). After all, we aren't trying to fill our grickles and blerliwert meters while keeping our player pixel out of the red zone, which causes a loss of Kelvinators that can only be restored by moving into the turquoise zone or using the item caffieneglitterbomb. The very fact that you're using things we've seen and experienced in real life ( wolves, cold, jackets, medicine, etc. ) is a concession to realism and creates an expectation of *some* degree of lifelikeness.

    I love survival games. Take the games "Don't Starve" and "Subnautica" for instance. Both of these are excellent games IMHO which together I have put hundreds of hours into between them. One is far more supernatural and whimsical than realistic, and the other uses hypothetical technology in addition to somewhat realistic environments. They're both excellent games, just as TLD does what it does extremely well in its own way.

TL:DR I love your game, and we hope we're not driving you insane but some of us really enjoy the realistic parts of TLD.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Grignard_TN
Created directed post

[JohnDoe60]

3 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Not at all upset.  Just trying to illustrate how silly it can be to apply real-world experience to a game. Not that games shouldn't be taken seriously or held to a high standard, which we hope people do for The Long Dark, but just the argument of "things don't happen this way in real life therefore this system is bad" is really unhelpful, even though it feels like a useful argument. 

"Deep survival simulation gameplay..." -- www.thelongdark.com

So, ya, unrealistic gameplay will get commented on, and since we don't really know what goes into making a game all we can do is point at the unrealistic simulation.

I have a solution -- MOD MODE

1. Give potential modders all the information they need to twist the game into whatever they want without breaking it or unnecessarily stepping on each others toes.
2. Set up a rating/ranking/review system for mods to engage the wider community.
3. Solicit gameplay improvements from the community in the form of mods. <legal stuff> to ensure Hinterland gets to use submissions how they see fit and creators get a guarantee of recognition.
4. Get back to work on your game...

...without worrying about what the hardcore or more adventurous players are doing.

Mod Mode seems like a win-win-win+ situation to me: players see the possibility to get what they want; Hinterland sees less pressure to accommodate novel features and mechanics; the devs get to see all kinds of wild ideas put into practice, along with both how the community and game responds.