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Hey guys! You might remember me from the posts and many comments that i've been writing here earlier. I was so unhappy and unsatisfied about the never coming new episode of story mode. I believe most of you already have read my ideas so i will not repeat them again. I wanted to share some of my recent feelings, i hope it does not bother anyone.

I loved TLD and it's story when i played it for the first time, so i think the connection between me and the game made me more impatient. When i bought the game i knew the story mode wasn't finished, but it was said to be continued in the beginning of 2018 so i trusted the developers. I always buy games depending on their story because it is how i like to play, and all advertisements of TLD in Steam and other platforms were made about story. So i bought the game and played first 2 episodes and waited patiently for the next. But now it's been more than 1,5 year and still there is not even a date announcement has come. It is annoying because i feel defrauded.

I was checking the forums daily and sharing my ideas earlier, now i am checking it once in 2 or 3 monts. I see devs are also sharing infos once in 2 or 3 months which is really bad. I deleted TLD and give up on my expectations on this game. I am sorry about how i truly forgot the story and about how i even played the game. Since it's been so long, my passion and faith on this game is faded. It is also not cool in my sight to see how admin is locking the topics that i try to discuss about the delay of Episode 3. Now i unfortunetaly feel like i will forget about even the existance of the game because of this delay. Which is so sad because i was thinking i had found my favourite game and it could go somewhere so good. I am so disappointed.

I am curious about how are you guys feeling about the delay. Because i remember most of you was upset about what i was writing on forums a year ago. Now i observed some you realized i was right. Because we're getting into May of 2019 and still a single episode of the story mode is failed to come in 2 years. I am not sure if it will ever come, or even if it does, i will not wait 2 years for each episode to see the end.

Forgive me if i'm being harsh but i still hardly believe that Hinterland Studio has failed to keep our love to game warm and satisfy us as a customer.

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Hello. First of all, let me thank you for sharing your opinion, which is clearly very dissapointed, in (moreless) very respectful manner. There are some inconsistencies in it, but overal, what you wrote makes sense, and it was not angry or emotionally colored in any other way. Thank you, because I feel like I can actually reply to your opinion, and we can have a very civil conversation about your feelings and worries about this game, and heck, maybe we will come to some kind of conclusion that will make things better :) 

I will start with a little sum up where I stand, so you know exactly who you are replying to. I have played TLD since 2014. Ive loved it ever since, it's my most favorite game of all time. I am a huge supporter of Hinterland as a studio, but realistic one, so if they made mistakes, I will not dispute that. I love this game solely because of its sandbox survival mode, which is the core nature of the game. However, this does not mean that I haven't played Story mode too, or that I haven't enjoyed it. because I did, very much so, and I am also looking forward to Episode 3, altough probably not as much as you are.

 

First, I am surprised that you only came across an advertisement of the story mode. Unless you got to the game at around the time that Story mode was coming out. Because as I recently seen the Creative director write somewhere here on forums, they focus their ads and steam sales for game at around the time when the updates are coming out, and they follow on advertising that update, not really to get new people to join, but to get players like you to return to the game and enjoy the update. Because it seems your story is not uncommon one around here. Still, this game is sandbox survival, first. The game was "finished" technically even before the first story mode episodes came out, simply because the Sandbox got to a point where it did not have to remain in beta. Not saying Story mode is not important... but the core feature always was the survival sandbox. And as such, the devs cannot focus only on story mode, they need to alternate the updates between these two parts of the game, even if they have two teams working separatedly on both sandbox and story mode, most of the work is probably done by teams that switch in between what is important at the moment. (at least that is just my guess).

When you bought the game, did it have two first episodes already? Then yes, the estimates you were given for when Episode 3 will come out were not true, but this is not really something Hinterland is responsible for. If they never decided to make the "Redux" update that just came out, there would be Episode 3 right now. But, it would mean the first two episodes would be the same as the old ones - unfinished in a sense that most conversations were not even voiced, the story line would be more stretched, and filled with kind of pointless survival tutorial quests that just kind of stretched the gameplay further.

For these issues, the game received a lot of unfair, hard and very reputation-corrupting critique, in the form of reviews. To fall back and rally, the decision was made to rework these first two episodes based on the feedback of the players, to make them more fun, more action packed and less about grinding and fetch quests.
I know you want to play Episode 3, but in your comment, you never said if you played the Episode 1 & 2 since the Redux. Did you? Because I played them now both, and I gotta say, the first two episodes are now much more fun, and I can see how a lot of work went into them, despite it being somewhat similar to the first version of these episodes. I can tell that if they decided to leave them in like they were, there would be Episode 3 by now. But, everyone woul stil play these first two episodes, and by then, they would have already made their own picture of the game based on that experience, which would not be fair to the game. The redux was neccesary to save this game from eventually dying as a result of bad review of these 2 episodes. Most new players may not even reach the episode 3 that way...

As unfortunate as the need for Redux was, it also means that Hinterland will have to focus on sandbox again, to give us survivalists something to look forward to, as well. So, next two updates will be sandbox. Additionally, because of how disappointing it is when they cant reach the dates, they wont give us date announcements anymore, either.

A lot of unfortunate stuff happened with Hinterland. They were always struggling with resources and time management. Then, a mistake happened and they lost a lot of progress, which made things even more frustrating... at least this is the experience we have with Hinterland in the past. But they seem to be doing all they can. A lot of their progress was in the past hindered simply because they didn't have their own equipment, and had to rent it out of studio - which means the progress of the game development was determined by the schedule of the studio. They are also perfectionists, a bit. They add content slowly, but what they add has some high quality to it. But, this attitude means content comes out slowly, and gamers are not exactly known for patience :) 

I understand your frustration that Episode 3 is not out yet - and you have every right for it. It was promised to you but was not delivered yet - nobody can fault you for being unhappy. That said, I dont think its very fair to say you were kinda defrauded - noone can predict the future. And if they focused on Episode 3 instead of fixing what was wrong in 1 & 2 first, I think it would eventually cause this game´s slow death, as it would be slowly bleeding out due to these negative reviews. 

It is basically a choice between two impossible options. Do we betray our fans, and delay the Episode 3 while we work on re-writing first two episodes, or do we ignore these bad reviews and complaits of our fans, suggesting the first two episodes were incomplete and dull and... etc.

You cant please everyone, sadly.

I don't mind the delay. I love sandbox anyway, and I know the secret how to always enjoy it, whether new content comes out or not. I can wait for episode 3.

And, with what work went into these first two episodes now, I can understand why the Episode 3 got delayed again. As a student of economy, I fully understand their business decision behind it as well. I think what they did was the correct choice, given the impossible scenario.

Even if the story mode was what was advertised to you, have you given the sandbox a go? Did you like it at all, or were you really just interested in the Story for the storyline in it, and the actions in it, and not at all about the survivalistic nature of the game? 

As long as you keep the thread civil, you don't have to be afraid that the Hinterland would delete it. If you can discuss the topic with others in mutual respect to opinions of each others, and this doesn't turn into an argument, they won't censor you, no worries. :) If you share why you are upset and give out these reasons, they Hinterland can learn from them, therefore they have no reason to lock it. Anyone can only work on fixing their own mistakes after they were made aware that they have them. Your honest, if negative review is a way for them to on forward.


 

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Do I want to see Episode 3? sure... but I am not impatient, I don't mind waiting patiently for Hinterland to make Episode 3 right. Patience is a virtue. I would much rather Hinterland take their time and make something really good, than to be rushed and make something that sucks (no offense). So I absolutely do have faith in Hinterland that they can pull all of this off, but it will be in their timing. 

Also waiting is to be expected for any Episodic Game like TLD, sometimes the wait could be weeks, months, or even years. 

I am sorry you are disappointed with the progress, but no amounting of complaining will change that... we all just have to wait... 

I don't know personally when Episode 3 will be out, but I am guessing it will be out later this year if not early next year? The reason Episode 3 is taking as long as it is - is because Hinterland did the Redux, which I am VERY glad they did! I played the game before the Redux, and yea... I definitely love the game a LOT more now! But anyway... Hinterland didn't have to go back and redo Episode 1 and 2 but they did, they could have taken their money and left us with something that in my opinion doesn't compare to what we have now. 

Hinterland has went above and beyond for TLD! I have seen the changes throughout the few years that I have been playing. They are also coming up with an Update that will be adding a Revolver, another Food and Clothing Item, and much more! So yea give Hinterland a chance and give them time. Of course it's up to you if you are willing to wait or not, I cannot tell you what to do or how to feel... but I can confidently say you were not defrauded because you have received your product. Survival Mode is finished even though the Story Mode is not, and that's because again that (the Story Mode) IS Episodic. Now the only way you could be defrauded is if Hinterland never ever releases aka finishes the Story Mode, and even then you still have Survival Mode... Survival Mode is like the BEST part! think about it... eventually when they release ALL Episodes, once played that is it! but the Survival Mode can last as long as the Player wants it to. So if I were you I would give Survival Mode a try, or you could go back and play the Redux of Episode 1 and 2. 

TL;DR = Be patient, patience IS a virtue. I want Episode 3 like anyone else, but no it does not really bother me that it's not out right now... I can wait, I don't have any intentions on dying any time soon... or at least I hope not. :P 

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Personally, sure, I'd love to see more content sooner - who wouldn't!?  I'm old enough and have been playing games long enough (started with Ultima IV on the Commodore 64) that I am accustomed to waiting.  I try to find other things/games to fill my time so I'm not focusing too much on it (and therefore getting more frustrated).  Guess that's how I deal.

I certainly hope you will continue checking back because HL has promised us the rest of the episodes and I'm sure they'll be great!

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25 minutes ago, Tohono O'odham Man said:

Has Hinterland commented about episode 3? And how many episodes will there be? And will perseverants be a new map ?

There was 5 promised for free I think, after that they can freely make and sell as many Episodes as they wish. 

As for Episode 3, all we know is - is that they are working on it. That's all we know. HL stopped giving dates for things a while back due to issues of them missing certain deadlines, and because of that people got pissed. 

Currently from what I heard Episode 3 won't have a new Map, but who knows maybe one day they'll add more Maps. 

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To confirm there will be 5 episodes in total as part of The Long Dark's WINTERMUTE Story Mode. These are all included as part of the game and will not be an additional cost to those who have already bought the game.

As a part of our policy on not announcing release dates in advance, we haven't given any firm details on when Episode 3 will be released. Our most recent update on what it is shaping up to be can be found here: 

 

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Would I love an episode 3 ofc, I can't wait for the cliffhanger episode 2 left us on, however what I understood part 3 will be more about Astrid, so guess that cliffhanger will be a wile longer to wait on. However I am a unsure if theres a word for it, but I play 1 game alot for a period then hardly anything for a wile then that game some more if it was a good game, to give an example if you are familiar with the dragon age game, the first episode you can chose race, gender and class and the way you play that race will change how the game is, so ofc I had to play every race, gender and class to get every aspect of the game... O.o  then I done that I wont play that game until the next exp comes out then I ofc have forgotten how the first game was so then I have to play the first game just before the second game comes out so I can tailor how that game is... and so on.. so for me that means that even if I played story mode several times, every time there is an update or change I play the game, just to get the different game aspect.  So you can bet whenever episode 3 comes out I have to play 1 and 2 just to refresh my memory.. oki back to The long dark, when I got the game it was still in beta I think and we only had sandbox and a few maps, so for me it has been awile. but as others has said I rather wait for a good game then a rush and that it suck... but still I would love to get the rest of the story :)

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21 hours ago, kristaok said:

There was 5 promised for free I think, after that they can freely make and sell as many Episodes as they wish. 

As for Episode 3, all we know is - is that they are working on it. That's all we know. HL stopped giving dates for things a while back due to issues of them missing certain deadlines, and because of that people got pissed. 

Currently from what I heard Episode 3 won't have a new Map, but who knows maybe one day they'll add more Maps. 

So wintermute story mode from start to finish isn't free? That's messed up if it isn't it should come with the game. I'm going to contact someone about this.

 

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21 hours ago, Admin said:

To confirm there will be 5 episodes in total as part of The Long Dark's WINTERMUTE Story Mode. These are all included as part of the game and will not be an additional cost to those who have already bought the game.

As a part of our policy on not announcing release dates in advance, we haven't given any firm details on when Episode 3 will be released. Our most recent update on what it is shaping up to be can be found here: 

 

Hello admin so your saying the longdarks story mode will not be free? From start to finish shouldn't that be included in the game. I would understand to pay for extended stories to be added but the original story should be included in the game from start to finish when purchased. Why would someone buy a game where you only get half? Thank you

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11 minutes ago, Tohono O'odham Man said:

So wintermute story mode from start to finish isn't free? That's messed up if it isn't it should come with the game. I'm going to contact someone about this.

 

I never said that. I said there were 5 Episodes promised for free, and we will be getting what was promised. But if HL wishes to add more they can, they can also charge for it. This is just how most Episodic Games work, in fact I don't think there is any Episodic type Game out there that I know of that even gives free Episodes like HL. So yea, we are pretty lucky in that sense. I personally wouldn't mind seeing more Episodes, and DLC. 

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3 minutes ago, Tohono O'odham Man said:

Hello admin so your saying the longdarks story mode will not be free? From start to finish shouldn't that be included in the game. I would understand to pay for extended stories to be added but the original story should be included in the game from start to finish when purchased. Why would someone buy a game where you only get half? Thank you

Yes you will be getting Wintermute (at least the promised 5 Episodes free). 

Why would someone buy a Game where you only get half? Welcome to Episodic type Games, you could wait weeks, months, or years for Episodes. Or you could be unlucky and end up with barely anything if the Game gets shelved aka gets abandoned, you will end up with a half done Game. Thankfully with TLD though we at least have the Survival Mode. Anyway, look at EA pretty much ALL of their Games are "half Games", they sell them that way so they can sell what should have been included for extra. Please don't take me wrong I'm not against DLC, in fact I'm for it, but EA ewww... they are the worst. But yea to answer your question there are MANY people who would buy half baked Games, that's just how it is. 

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1 hour ago, Tohono O'odham Man said:

Hello admin so your saying the longdarks story mode will not be free? From start to finish shouldn't that be included in the game. I would understand to pay for extended stories to be added but the original story should be included in the game from start to finish when purchased. Why would someone buy a game where you only get half? Thank you

They are saying it WILL be free. You paid for all 5 Wintermute episodes when you bought the game. There will be no additional charges when Episode 3, 4 & 5 come out. We just have to wait for them to be completed. You also have the full Survival Mode and the challenge Modes included, at no additional charge. If you have the game, you have them all. The only paid DLC right now is the OST.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

They are saying it WILL be free. You paid for all 5 Wintermute episodes when you bought the game. There will be no additional charges when Episode 3, 4 & 5 come out. We just have to wait for them to be completed. You also have the full Survival Mode and the challenge Modes included, at no additional charge. If you have the game, you have them all. The only paid DLC right now is the OST.

OST? It doesn't show in Microsoft store? How do i purchase it?

 

Edited by Tohono O'odham Man

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37 minutes ago, Tohono O'odham Man said:

OST? It doesn't show in Microsoft store? How do i purchase it?

 

Ah, the OST is on Steam, and available through bandcamp right now. https://hinterlandstudio.bandcamp.com/album/music-for-the-long-dark-volume-one

Not available on the stores for PS4 or XBox One, and with the recent news about iTunes being discontinued, replaced by a new app, any hopes for it there may be gone or delayed. Remains to be seen if a physical CD/DVD copy is ever offered. Might be a good question for @Raphael van Lierop in the Milton Mailbag Question Thread.

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To put what I said clearer: Episode 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are free if you have bought The Long Dark. 

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I'm genuinely surprised how often this same conversation has to take place...  I've checked over the forums, and this general topic seems to resurrect at a minimum of every three weeks. :D I imagine that must be exhausting for the team, to have to be constantly repeating themselves. :D 

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@ManicManiac It does come up a lot which can be annoying, but at the same time it is 2019 and the Game came out in late 2014. The Story Mode was said to be planned to be released in 2014, then the date was changed to 2016 only to be finally changed to 2017. The Redux Versions of Episode 1 and 2 were released in late 2018. So to put it in perspective we have had about 5 years, to me that's a pretty good amount of time to be seeing some sort of action. But anyway I do try to give some leniency due to the HL Team being small compared to most bigger Teams, and due to the whole Redux. But with all of that being said, I do have to see the point of those who are growing impatient, in fact many have all together given up on TLD. If it weren't for all of the missed deadlines, and broken promises (no offense to anyone) I think TLD would have been a bigger hit. Sadly because of all of these things TLD is pretty niche, and with the new advancements in Graphics, and the next gen Consoles coming out I worry about TLDs future. 

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@kristaok
To me the timetable doesn't really mater, it's a wonderful experience and worth waiting for.  People can either be patient... or they can always play something else in the mean time and come back.  As I've said in many posts, it's all about player choice :D 

Anyways, I was just initially irritated by this thread because it seems like most people don't bother to search the forums before posting.  I feel like by now, those of us who love this game should already know the situation, and constantly putting up nagging posts won't get content put out any faster. 

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@ManicManiac To you it may not matter, but to many others it does. And I agree TLD is a wonderful experience, but the wait can get grueling and that in turn can cause many to give up on the Game. In fact due to the issues with the wait and things promised but never given, many people probably see that and don't even buy the Game which is sad. And you are right it's about player choice, but at the same time it's not a smart move in the long run to keep fans waiting. I mean I personally try to be really patient, but when months turn into years, and years turns into a lustrum, and a lustrum to a decade, etc... you get it... eventually people get tired of waiting. It's only natural to be like okay... where is the Episodes etc.? 

I have stuck with the Game since 2016ish, and I have been pretty patient throughout but even I have trouble going back to it. I been mostly playing other RPG Games etc. 

You are talking to someone who had the HUGEST dark tented Rose Colored Glasses on, I never wanted those Glasses to fade, but they are pretty much clear now... in fact I would say they fell off a while back. I still try to encourage patience, but at the same time I don't want to be hypocritical considering I stopped playing the Game around the Steadfast Ranger Update. There really isn't enough substantial DLC or Updates to keep me going at this point, I do kind of get bored very easily. I think if the Story Mode was complete, and there was more Wildlife to Hunt, that would definitely pique my interest and keep me engaged as I am BIG into RPG (story based) Games. 

PS. I hope this post does not offend anyone, I just felt like it needed to be said. -- I do try to be understanding and give the Team leniency, but I personally can't help but to feel the way I feel. 

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Posted (edited)

@kristaok,
I totally understand where you are coming from and how you feel about it.  As a sentient being, you have every right to feel how ever you want to about anything.  So there is no harm in your expressing it.  Especially when it's articulated civilly (which it was), so I don't think anything you had to say would offend anyone.  :) 

The only thing I would add: we know the Hinterland team does great work, and we know they have been working tirelessly to make their vision a reality.  I trust that they are driving forward as quickly as their standards of quality and satisfaction with their product allows.  They are still a relatively small team (anyone can correct me if I am mistaken), and the task they've committed to is huge (and frankly I find it inspiring).  I very much appreciate their approach.  It's allowed us to have access to this wonderful experience for the last 5 years (I got on board at the later end of 2014).

You mention it not being a smart move to keep fans waiting... but I would suggest that wasn't an active choice they made, it's just the circumstance that has played out.  I respect that they have such high standards for themselves and what they create.  We put our faith in the project and that project continues to deliver.  It's not like some games, that started and then died out... this team always seems very active and the game is very much alive.  The whole team seems very active both in working on new content and interacting with the community; which is much more than could be said for many developers who have done Kickstarter/early access.

Anyways, this is just how I see it... :) 

Edited by ManicManiac

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@ManicManiac Yes, due to their small Team this is why I do try to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just can't help but to worry for the Games future. I love TLD so much, I just want to see it progress and not stay niche forever. :) Thanks for being so understanding. 

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I found a very good approach of dealing with the no-showing Episodes: I simply don't give a freeze anymore. In my head TLD is this amazing sandbox game I pumped almost 2K hours of gameplay into and it took a really long time to get "stale" - but never so stale I don't pick it back up every few months. To me the Story mode is an experiment gone wrong without a conclusion, and they don't even need to give me the remaining episodes for all I care.

And it's not really without reason that I came to this conclusion. I remember back when EP2 came out and I got to the point where I had to get myself molested by that bear 6 times in a row, running around naked in the snow because the bear ate all my gear. All I could think was "geez, this is stupid as hell". Well, turns out the Redux variant of that encounter was pretty much the same just with loading a lot in a rather interesting-in-a-retarded-way blend of The Long Dark and Splinter Cell. "geez, this is even stupider than hell" I remember thinking. Story mode died for me, then and there. If waiting a year for an already stupid part of the game to become even worse.. nope.

So, no, I don't care about what Wintermute means anymore. I don't wanna know why Will and Astrid seperated and if they will get back together and live happy every after (albeit with bear induced PTSD). I don't wanna be put through the grinder some more time to end up with the next cliffhanger that will resolve sometime in 2022. I don't wanna wait for a story to conclude in a game I bought in my early thirties by the time I'm forty.

Don't get me wrong: The Long Dark is amazing. But Story Mode is a bloody failure, and I couldn't care less if it just died. Sure, TLD was kinda advertised as this amazing story driven survival game where decisions mattered, that was supposed to have this thick, intriguing mystery looming over a world that got the best and the worst out of humans fighting the final fight against nature .... but hey, advertising, right? It's a really good survival game, probably the only one that actually takes the word survival serious. AAA, would buy again. Seriously.

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