Adapting to survival - First words from a VIP Backer


electrix

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Many logical thoughts here (I know it became somewhat a wall-of-text, sorry).

For other alpha-players: please share what you think to my suggestion

For Hinterland-dev's: I love you and your work, continue your voodoo! Please read everything and share your thoughts as well!

Pre-text

I am on day 49 (edit: 52) and counting, only found 11 bullets so far and I have been in every building in the whole game in search for more.. I've checked every surface, under every bed, inside every drawer or box. Everywhere. I guess that the rest of the bullets are inside a bunker (I haven't find this one yet).

I have now resorted to becoming a kamikaze-pilot when it comes to finding meat, jumping the wolves, making the other animals run towards the wolves then fighting the wolves and double the meat-harvesting.

BUT

Today I just sat down, looking at the fire with nothing to do, over 40L of meat and water in storage, and thought.. "What would I have done if I REALLY was in this situation?". Everyday knowing that one day when the storage of meat is over a wolf will kill me when trying to get it's meat.

What would anybody do? Snares is one of the possibilites, yes. But with all the wood that exists I would sit in my cabin and build a bow and a arrow. Even if I know that I suck at shooting with a bow and arrow I would practice everyday for survival.

Edit 3: Important note. A snare shouldn't need a workbench. Exactly what does the workbench contribute to creating the snare? A snare depends on wood and gut, why the workbench for such a simple creation?

Suggestions

So easily one of the most important things is the aspect of adapting to survival when it comes to renewable weapons. I know that some things are too large for a game to implement (like digging a giant traphole with your hands and sticking sharp sticks so animals can drop for instance) but with renewable weapons (which is extremely realistic in a situation like this) you would build every thing you could think of as long as you have the renewable material).

Bow and arrow

  • A bow and arrow is something that really should be implemented.
    Bow = Wood (don't know what kind?) and hatchet* or hunting knife* for crafting the wood + cloth or gut for string
    Arrow = Wood (don't know what kind?) + scrap metal for arrow-head OR/AND more wood, just sharpened, for a lighter "attack" ?
    * When thinking outside the box (I don't know canadian rules when it comes to hunting) but is not bow allowed at all? Surely someone in this "world" would have a bow and arrow available somewhere (even if a hunting rifle is prefered).

Sharp wooden sticks / spears for hunting

  • One of the things that I really would build straight away. Spear is a great weapons for hunting and also for protection (with a small distance).

These suggestions depend on having a sharp tool for carving, like a hunter knife. Though in the stone-ages one could crack a stone in half and use instead. The question is how far and realistic the dev's will go?

Otherwise, great game. Can't be more proud over being a VIP Backer!

Words to the wonderful dev's

And for the dev's, yes. It's a survival game and the aspect of weapons is not the important part but think this; What would you do to survive when you have many items, materials and tools available? Probably anything you can as long as you know it will help you to survive. Right?

Edit 1:

When thinking about all of the available tools and material it would be extremely easy to make a molotov coctail with a 0,5l empty waterbottle, kerosene, a cloth and a match = instant fried wolf. Of course I am kidding, but really think about it. With ALL of the tools, materials and stuff you've found, what would be possible and easy to do without any need of special hardware or tools?

Edit 2:

Ready for when the SHTF.

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I think this is a good thread idea.

Molotov cocktails sound feasible but you would need to find a glass bottle, and that might be harder in some situations than others. It cannot be made from anything but glass or maybe china. Also would you throw it at an animal, the animal would just get a bruise and run away. Even if you get it to break it would probably just burn the pelt. It's great to attack tanks, but not animals.

The first weapon I would try would be a spear (hunting knife attached to stick) or naginata /halberd depending on what I find. If I could find/build something like a scythe on a stick that would be my weapon of choice, because you could injure animals in a radius with ease. The problems is of course, how to get so close to them, and that is tricky.

A bow is of course easy too, provided you find some good wood like hazelnut, I would just be concerned that I have to make arrows too (and I remember as a kid that that's the really hard part) and that I would miss often.

I think it would go for a slingshot instead. Easy to build, easier to use than bows, and could use stones as ammo.

Another survivor could make a really deadly slingshot and use steel balls (eg from bearings).

Don't do this at home, or with children!

allegedly this slingshot has up to 80 Joule

The next I take on would be a crossbow, but I have never built one before so it could be difficult. It's still just a variation of slingshot and bow, so I would not be afraid to try it. I would also try to make it shoot balls instead of bolts.

Nasty, dont try this unless in a life and death situation

Something else one could try would be pits with sharpened sticks and all kinds of punji traps. Of course pits are next to impossible to do in the cold, and there is no bamboo. But against humans this would be very effective*, there are other woods (hazelnut?) and it could be concealed with snow. But probably snow and ice would very much limit the effectivity.

*Anyone who tries this for fun or not in a life and death situation should face maximum punishment!!

Building sharp things would be easy, I think that we would plenty lots of knifes and metal items, just think of all the kitchens in the game.

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Thanks for your thoughts! We're working on some new features that will address some of your points.

I feel that the player's arc for the game should go from "early game" (which is all about scavenging, learning how things work, and trying to stay alive) to "mid-game" where you begin to feel more confident, aren't so scared to explore and take risks, and begin to become more self-sufficient.

I think the game, so far, has done a competent job of making that "early game" experience feel compelling. But as people are surviving longer and longer, the early game intensity and excitement starts to get a little thin and they need more to keep them interested and pushed to the limits.

So, let's just say one of our focuses at the moment is addressing this "mid-game" piece. Can't promise 100% what we'll deliver, or when, but your notes are well taken and I don't think you'll be disappointed.

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I think the game, so far, has done a competent job of making that "early game" experience feel compelling. But as people are surviving longer and longer, the early game intensity and excitement starts to get a little thin and they need more to keep them interested and pushed to the limits.

Couldn't agree more. Very exciting.

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I have mentioned molotov's before now, but I like your ideas. I'm not sure about the bow though, because making a bow is very difficult. I have a friend though who managed to build a 45lb bow from a length of plastic waterproof pipe. It isn't pretty, but it works.

FYI, Burning bridges, Hazel is a horrible wood to make a bow from. It splits and dries out so easily it's ridiculous (trust me, I have tried to make a bow from hazel, and it's a nightmare) Th odds against finding a decent straight length of hazel are huge.

And the wood despises cold weather and becomes very brittle in freezing conditions.

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I feel that the player's arc for the game should go from "early game" (which is all about scavenging, learning how things work, and trying to stay alive) to "mid-game" where you begin to feel more confident, aren't so scared to explore and take risks, and begin to become more self-sufficient.

I think the game, so far, has done a competent job of making that "early game" experience feel compelling. But as people are surviving longer and longer, the early game intensity and excitement starts to get a little thin and they need more to keep them interested and pushed to the limits.

You are absolutely right. The game as it was in v.127 already did a great job delivering the "early game" experience and this has only been improved with the following updates. The introduction of trapping (and making the snares) already gave us a taste of "mid game" and it makes us long for more :D

So, let's just say one of our focuses at the moment is addressing this "mid-game" piece. Can't promise 100% what we'll deliver, or when, but your notes are well taken and I don't think you'll be disappointed.

This is great news! Looking forward to what you've come up with for the next update very much!

Keep up the great work!

PS. I really don't get where you guys get the time to bring us so much new content/ features every update and still have time to read the forums. Never before have I seen a game developer that listens to their community the way Hinterland does! Thumbs up!

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I have mentioned molotov's before now, but I like your ideas. I'm not sure about the bow though, because making a bow is very difficult. I have a friend though who managed to build a 45lb bow from a length of plastic waterproof pipe. It isn't pretty, but it works.

FYI, Burning bridges, Hazel is a horrible wood to make a bow from. It splits and dries out so easily it's ridiculous (trust me, I have tried to make a bow from hazel, and it's a nightmare) Th odds against finding a decent straight length of hazel are huge.

And the wood despises cold weather and becomes very brittle in freezing conditions.

Well, we made bows from hazelnut as children, and we used rods of fireworks as arrows that we collected on New Year. Hazelnut is certainly great for childrens bows but not good hunting bows :) And I assume you are talking about good (composite) bows with a range over 10m that can kill a deer. That of course requires a lot of knowledge and skill.

But now that I am an adult, making a small bow that can kill a rabbit or bird is not difficult. Hitting is difficult.

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