Spoilers: What game exploits should be removed from the game


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Fellow survivors! I love the game - one of the only I play now a days. But from many post in the forums I've seen a lot of "this should be removed"-tricks and exploits and I've recognized a few on my own. I thought we should make list of game mechanics exploits that could be removed to make the game more realistic and/or as intended. 

Here are my suggestions or picks from other posts:

  • Light fires inside fishing cabins with Mag.Lense (doesn't make sense)
  • The infamous starvation trick (only eat 900 cals before bed)
  • Drop bait to never miss a wolf with bow or rifle (maybe the radius of shifting to attack the player should be increased)
  • Rabbit hunt with stones are too easy; should be nerfed to incentive the very fine traps in the game already  (I mean, my god, have you tried in real life to hit anything with a small stone)  
  • Light campfire to break wolf tracking poised to attack (actually is this already removed?)
  • Keep meat fresh not cooked outside to always be able to cook it to 50 pct. instead of cooking it 
  • Carcass are cold (freezing) outside - water and meat aren't.

What do you think? 

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Agree with removing the ability to cook ruined meat.  I think cooking should double the condition.  That way, raw meat above 50% condition goes up to 100% when cooked, the same way it does now.  As it

OK! Here's my suggestions: Infinite torches: campfire-pulled torches capped at 25% condition, and only torches that are 26% or above can be re-lit once they go out. Lighting a campfire or

I don't think rabbit hunting is too easy except on the easier game modes (which are too easy). When you've perfected rabbit hunting it still takes time, precious outdoor time and heat, and the calorie

Agree with removing the ability to cook ruined meat.  I think cooking should double the condition.  That way, raw meat above 50% condition goes up to 100% when cooked, the same way it does now.  As it falls below 50%, the effectiveness of cooking also falls off quickly, and at 0%, it could either despawn entirely, or cooking simply doesn't change its condition.

Degradation rates should probably be adjusted to compensate a bit.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to suggest this.

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I don't think rabbit hunting is too easy except on the easier game modes (which are too easy). When you've perfected rabbit hunting it still takes time, precious outdoor time and heat, and the calories at the end aren't great. Learning to stone them takes some practice but it's still entry level hunting. Players need that option early game, especially if there aren't many free calories about. 

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I find the biggest one for me is sidestepping down sheer cliff faces where I should really have fallen to my death. I mean 10 in game minutes to go down the face of TMW and reach the Mountaineer's cabin is game breaking (and bypasses weight carry restrictions compared to using ropes on the way down).

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Keep meat fresh not cooked outside to always be able to cook it to 50 pct. instead of cooking it 

I don't understand what that means. Really I don't think meat outside should decay at all. It's like -20 all the time, meat would easily last for years.

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6 hours ago, odizzido said:

Keep meat fresh not cooked outside to always be able to cook it to 50 pct. instead of cooking it 

I don't understand what that means. Really I don't think meat outside should decay at all. It's like -20 all the time, meat would easily last for years.

It means currently both fresh and cooked meat decays quite rapidly outside. But fresh meat can always be cooked and gain a lot of condition back (50 pct.) So you would always let your meat be fresh and even if its ruined, you can cook it to 50 pct. condition while cooked meat is just ruined. Basicly i seems fresh meat is always available for recooking. It seems somewhat counterintuitive.

Maybe you're right that the fix is longer decay times but that would suggest maybe attracting wildlife. I would guess if you but 30 kg. of fresh meat littered outside your door you would attract a guest or two.  

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9 hours ago, Spakerman said:

I find the biggest one for me is sidestepping down sheer cliff faces where I should really have fallen to my death. I mean 10 in game minutes to go down the face of TMW and reach the Mountaineer's cabin is game breaking (and bypasses weight carry restrictions compared to using ropes on the way down).

Agreed - at least a insta-kill-zone should be added to the slope down from the top to avoid this. 

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Take torches from fires to keep. Allowing you to obtain tons of torches to re-light. 

Bait and kill wolves. You should have to throw bait instead. 

Skyrim-ing down and up cliffs where you should fall to your death. 

Starvation tactic. 

 

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I recognise the torch thing, starvation, and cliff decent stuff are all unrealistic but I don't mind them. However, I understand why people don't like them and could deal with them changing. But to out these in context, how about we talk about balancing the amount of animals? There's so many! And they respawn so fast! Hearing many player accounts it seems they could grow fat on wolf meat alone. Anyone feel that's needs changing?

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On 8/12/2018 at 11:37 AM, Fuarian said:

Skyrim-ing down and up cliffs where you should fall to your death. 

Climbing up is already balanced due to lack of jump.  Ascending a slope is difficult when the character cannot jump.  The switch back technique is a slow solution for ascension and also seems realistic.  In other games such as Skyrim the ability to jump makes any slope ridiculously easy.  The simple solution most game developers take is to put an invisible barrier to prevent access always breaks immersion.  Small obstacles on the path can be frustrating at times but still the climbing mechanic in TLD is better than anything else I have come across simply because the character lacks the ability to jump. 

Descending slopes within the game has little risk and I would have to agree that it needs improving.  Climbing down ropes does seem meaningless especially when encumbered.

Ascending in TLD already is challenging due to lack of a in game jump mechanic and descending needs some tuning by possibly introducing chance of a misstep.  

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Another really cheap trick is downward slope boosting... that's what I call it. Probably you've seen this happen... when you're plodding along, say, with 50 kgs of stuff weighing your ass down, you're barely moving... now, make your character go down a slope of any sort (even a little stone will suffice), you would get an abnormal speed boost, to the point you would continue moving at almost normal walking speed... just don't release your forward key and you can go on like this indefinitely, regardless if it's uphill or downhill. In the mines, with all the rocks strewn around, it happens all the time... once you've got the knack of it, it becomes really addictive.

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On 8/11/2018 at 8:42 AM, Looper said:

Here are my suggestions or picks from other posts:

  • Light fires inside fishing cabins with Mag.Lense (doesn't make sense)
  • The infamous starvation trick (only eat 900 cals before bed)
  • Drop bait to never miss a wolf with bow or rifle (maybe the radius of shifting to attack the player should be increased)
  • Rabbit hunt with stones are too easy; should be nerfed to incentive the very fine traps in the game already  (I mean, my god, have you tried in real life to hit anything with a small stone)  
  • Light campfire to break wolf tracking poised to attack (actually is this already removed?)
  • Keep meat fresh not cooked outside to always be able to cook it to 50 pct. instead of cooking it 
  • Carcass are cold (freezing) outside - water and meat aren't.

Good list.

The most niggly ones for me are these:

  • ability to pull infinite re-usable torches from fires negates usefulness and value of other light-sources
  • walking on to narrow rock-ledges / other inaccessible places causes wolf/bear to activate flee-mode - it's a bit too easy to exploit
  • campfire-lighting is too easy/reliable/resource-cheap for scaring off wolves
  • STARVATION EXPLOIT!!!
  • the weird blue-ish illumination you get indoors during night-time means you can navigate mines/cave systems without light - but only at night!
  • Consistent condition-loss rate for freezing, regardless of how close your temperature is to 0°C, makes it advantageous to go about naked in some circumstances
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11 hours ago, Pillock said:

Good list.

The most niggly ones for me are these:

  • ability to pull infinite re-usable torches from fires negates usefulness and value of other light-sources
  • walking on to narrow rock-ledges / other inaccessible places causes wolf/bear to activate flee-mode - it's a bit too easy to exploit
  • campfire-lighting is too easy/reliable/resource-cheap for scaring off wolves
  • STARVATION EXPLOIT!!!
  • the weird blue-ish illumination you get indoors during night-time means you can navigate mines/cave systems without light - but only at night!
  • Consistent condition-loss rate for freezing, regardless of how close your temperature is to 0°C, makes it advantageous to go about naked in some circumstances

Oh the blue light i forgot. Dont walk into "inside"-caves during day. Wait until night where you can see everything without a torch :)

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On 8/16/2018 at 12:42 PM, Ice Hole said:

Climbing up is already balanced due to lack of jump.  Ascending a slope is difficult when the character cannot jump.  The switch back technique is a slow solution for ascension and also seems realistic.  In other games such as Skyrim the ability to jump makes any slope ridiculously easy.  The simple solution most game developers take is to put an invisible barrier to prevent access always breaks immersion.  Small obstacles on the path can be frustrating at times but still the climbing mechanic in TLD is better than anything else I have come across simply because the character lacks the ability to jump. 

Descending slopes within the game has little risk and I would have to agree that it needs improving.  Climbing down ropes does seem meaningless especially when encumbered.

Ascending in TLD already is challenging due to lack of a in game jump mechanic and descending needs some tuning by possibly introducing chance of a misstep.  

I'm talking about the physics that somehow allow you to climb down the face of the dam without falling to your death...

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3 hours ago, Fuarian said:

I'm talking about the physics that somehow allow you to climb down the face of the dam without falling to your death...

Yeah that is mysterious.

Perhaps it is the reason for Mystery Lake. :)

But when I tried this a few version ago I remember falling and dying.  

Carter Dam has undergone an extensive construction lately maybe this now a bug.  Was descending down the dam possible before the renovations?

Edited by Ice Hole
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Look, I agree with pretty much all of these, but what good will listing them down do? Instead perhaps we should try and come up for solutions for these exploits. Like the ability to pull infinite torches out of the fire, instead you have to have 3 sticks order to pull out a torch.

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On 8/18/2018 at 3:57 PM, Ice Hole said:

Yeah that is mysterious.

Perhaps it is the reason for Mystery Lake. :)

But when I tried this a few version ago I remember falling and dying.  

Carter Dam has undergone an extensive construction lately maybe this now a bug.  Was descending down the dam possible before the renovations?

The renovations have nothing to do with the outside of the dam. It's always been this way.

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The dam is almost vertical maybe around 80 degrees.  That would seem to be quite a feat to pull off for anybody else but spederman.  

The only reason I can think I fell before is that I must have tried to go down with out crouching.

A deathwall is still too an abrupt death so maybe the character should tumble down the slope and take significant damage.  That might deter would be spedermen.\

 

The Bait Wolf Issue

The idea of dropping bait works but can be exploited. 

The bait can be as tiny as 0.1 kg and the wolf will take a long time to consume it. 

The wolf approaches the bait without hesitation and then consumes it on the spot.  

 

On 8/19/2018 at 8:20 AM, FunkyFuggerson said:

And bait doesn't work from medium distances.

 

Instead of throwing (which I like the idea of) maybe the wolf continues to pursue until the character is far away from the bait then the wolf returns quickly to the bait and then consumes it or runs off with it depending on the size of the bait.

 

 

 

Edited by Ice Hole
go away 'bating
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On 8/19/2018 at 7:19 AM, FunkyFuggerson said:

Look, I agree with pretty much all of these, but what good will listing them down do? Instead perhaps we should try and come up for solutions for these exploits. Like the ability to pull infinite torches out of the fire, instead you have to have 3 sticks order to pull out a torch.

OK! Here's my suggestions:

  • Infinite torches: campfire-pulled torches capped at 25% condition, and only torches that are 26% or above can be re-lit once they go out.
  • Lighting a campfire or walking on to 'inaccessible places' always scares away wolves: the AI could have an intermediate behaviour-mode between 'aggression' and 'running way'. In this mode, they could stay locked on to you, but would run around you in an erratic way, making it difficult to shoot them. Staying near the fire or on a rock/tree/whatever where it can't reach you would keep you safe, but you wouldn't be able to escape the situation unless you took another measure, like firing the gun or throwing a torch/flare at it.
  • Starvation: I think we need a 'malnutrition' affliction, similar to how Cabin Fever works - that is, if your calorie intake over, say, five days does not exceed your calorie expenditure, you get the affliction (there could be a warning phase first). If you get the affliction, your tiredness and freezing rate is doubled, and your general condition-loss rate and condition-regain time is also increased. You can cure it by bringing your five-day calorie in/out rate back into the positive.
  • Night-time illumination making it easier to navigate indoors at night than in the day: Just get rid of the weird bluey illumination at night so that it's dark!
  • Consistent condition-loss for freezing: scale condition-loss rate according to temperature - every few degrees of "feels like" temp below freezing could increase your condition-loss rate by a bit. That would make it advantageous to stay out of the wind and wear your warmest clothes, even if you're still freezing (which it isn't now).

I'm not sure how you'd fix the ability to spider-man down very steep cliffs, rocks or dam faces without a big overhaul of the physics. But maybe some kind of 'tumbling' phase for movement might work? A bit like when you fall short distances and pick up bruises, minor injuries and clothing damage, except you can't arrest the falling until you reach a 'safe' bit of ground? I don't how that work really, in terms programming it, but it would be nice if the Devs could have a look at the situation, at least.

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24 minutes ago, Pillock said:

OK! Here's my suggestions:

  • Infinite torches: campfire-pulled torches capped at 25% condition, and only torches that are 26% or above can be re-lit once they go out.
  • Lighting a campfire or walking on to 'inaccessible places' always scares away wolves: the AI could have an intermediate behaviour-mode between 'aggression' and 'running way'. In this mode, they could stay locked on to you, but would run around you in an erratic way, making it difficult to shoot them. Staying near the fire or on a rock/tree/whatever where it can't reach you would keep you safe, but you wouldn't be able to escape the situation unless you took another measure, like firing the gun or throwing a torch/flare at it.
  • Starvation: I think we need a 'malnutrition' affliction, similar to how Cabin Fever works - that is, if your calorie intake over, say, five days does not exceed your calorie expenditure, you get the affliction (there could be a warning phase first). If you get the affliction, your tiredness and freezing rate is doubled, and your general condition-loss rate and condition-regain time is also increased. You can cure it by bringing your five-day calorie in/out rate back into the positive.
  • Night-time illumination making it easier to navigate indoors at night than in the day: Just get rid of the weird bluey illumination at night so that it's dark!
  • Consistent condition-loss for freezing: scale condition-loss rate according to temperature - every few degrees of "feels like" temp below freezing could increase your condition-loss rate by a bit. That would make it advantageous to stay out of the wind and wear your warmest clothes, even if you're still freezing (which it isn't now).

I'm not sure how you'd fix the ability to spider-man down very steep cliffs, rocks or dam faces without a big overhaul of the physics. But maybe some kind of 'tumbling' phase for movement might work? A bit like when you fall short distances and pick up bruises, minor injuries and clothing damage, except you can't arrest the falling until you reach a 'safe' bit of ground? I don't how that work really, in terms programming it, but it would be nice if the Devs could have a look at the situation, at least.

Brilliant suggestions pillock! Yes that whole mountain goating thing is a tricky one to solve isn't it? Perhaps instead of over hauling the physics the chance of spraining your ankles, bruising, or tearing your clothing is doubled so by the time you reach the bottom of Timberwolf you covered in injuries. But if you take off all your clothing and have plenty of painkillers that wouldn't matter would it? Hmmm... Perhaps there should be a new affliction? Like maybe a broken ankle or very badly damaged ankle for this kind of cliff climbing? 

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On 19/8/2018 at 2:19 PM, FunkyFuggerson said:

Look, I agree with pretty much all of these, but what good will listing them down do? Instead perhaps we should try and come up for solutions for these exploits. Like the ability to pull infinite torches out of the fire, instead you have to have 3 sticks order to pull out a torch.

I guess you're right. My post had some suggestions - others have contributed with solutions. Point of the list is of course only to consolidate the different exploits that goes somewhat contrary to what was intended in the game. 

While it isn't an exploit - and therefore shouldn't have been put on the list - I still hope for a change to the stone throwing accuracy. Hitting a rabbit with a stone is very very hard in real life, but can be trained in TLD to work 9/10 times. Plus I really really think that the trapping mechanic deserves more love.  

Edited by Looper
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Just now, Looper said:

I guess you're right. My post had some suggestions - others have contributed with solution. Point of the list is of course onlys to consolidate the different exploits that goes somewhat contrary to what was intended in the game. 

While it isn't an exploit and therefore shouldn't have been put on the lis, I still hope for a change to the stone throwing accuracy. Hitting a rabbit with a stone is very very hard in real life, but can be trained in TLD to work 9/10 times. Plus I really really think that the trapping mechanic deserves more love.  

I left a rabbit alive behind the trappers and set out about three snares and got 1-2 bunny corpses every day, there was enough gut to probably craft all the animal clothing twice. In fact the whole idea of one live rabbit yet you can have infinite bunny corpses is an exploit! Oh no! OOOOH NOOO! DUN DUN DUUUUUUN! :o

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