Keep TLD As It Is.

[Aagje]

There have been a lot of posts lately asking for additions to The Long Dark. Scopes, craftable shelters, totem poles, elephants and ponies and dream catchers and lions and tigers, oh my.

I think you're all missing the point. TLD is a minimalist survival game. The joy is in surviving within a very sparse, barren world.

Is there room for improvement? Of course there is. There are bugs, there are aspects of the game which could be tightened up and made more balanced or more playable.

But don't let that blind you to the fact that this is not modded Minecraft, this is not survival horror, and this is not Fallout with particularly antisocial wolves.

So thank you to the developers for making a game which is true to itself, and please don't dilute the simplicity with tons of unneeded additions.

After all, the quiet apocalypse wouldn't be so quiet when you add in boomboxes.

[Bowie]

I agree there are a ton of things people want, but the question is, would it be true to the spirit of the game? Just yesterday, I was standing on a cliff outside the radio tower on the pleasant valley map wishing I had some binoculars to survey the land below and maybe spot the elusive prepper's cache!

[Aagje]

29 minutes ago, Bowie said:

[T]he question is, would it be true to the spirit of the game?

I think that's the most important consideration when thinking about possible additions to the game.

Would I like an orbital defense grid to bring down time-on-target kinetic strike bombardments on that wolf who's been chasing me for the past hour? Of course I would. Would it be TLD? No.

Also, welcome to the forums, Bowie.

[shade_grey]

I fundamentally disagree with the title of your post but I agree with the content of your post. I came to this expecting to write a refutation only to find out that, aside from the title, I have no problem with it... Can this be called clickbait?

Anyway, @Bowie's first statement embodies the gist of the issue... BWT, welcome to the forums Bowie. The fact is, the game is still unfinished but whatever changes made to it have to be according to certain standards.

Many players who have been playing this game for years will know that in spite of the fact that Hinterland has made many additions to the game, the parts fundamental to it haven't changed ever since. Your character will never need to fight off hordes of hostile mobs. Your character will never be able to build crafting stations. Your character will never be able to erect buildings. The parkour might improve a little (being able to step over small obstacles would be nice ), but your character will never need to do wall runs, arm jumps, and muscle ups. Your character will never be able to build traps for large animals (in fact I think that currently, rabbit snares are redundant and overpowered). You will always need to be thoughtful and prudent. You will always need to make plans and contingencies. You will always need to be opportunistic and flexible. You will always need to wait and manage your time. You will always need to travel and explore in order to access and refine particular resources. These are just some of the things that make The Long Dark what it is.

[Aagje]

4 minutes ago, shade_grey said:

I fundamentally disagree with the title of your post but I agree with the content of your post. ... Can this be called clickbait?

My apologies; I didn't intend the title to be misleading -- I was trying to make a point. Perhaps "Keep The Long Dark The Quiet Apocalypse" would have been a better subject line.

(That said, having just died to a wolf attack in my thus-far longest running Stalker attempt, I have some sympathy for those who want to implement artillery barrages and wolf-deterrent power armour. Grr.)

[Pillock]

I think the Custom game settings have opened a bit of a can of worms regarding this. People will always now be able to argue that something should be included, however much it alters the core feel/atmosphere of the game, as long as it can be toggled in the custom menu. But if things are added to the game in the pre-defined experience modes, they do affect the game whether we choose them or not.

(For example, I really want to turn off the world map. I never would have looked at it if I'd realised what it was, and I will disable it if I can find a setting for it in the Custom mode next time I start a new run. I prefer to build up my own mental image of the environment rather than be shown directly, and I don't really get how my character came into possession of the information in the first place.)

 

[shade_grey]

44 minutes ago, Aagje said:

My apologies; I didn't intend the title to be misleading -- I was trying to make a point. Perhaps "Keep The Long Dark The Quiet Apocalypse" would have been a better subject line.

No worries. I tried to think up other titles earlier and it's hard to think of more comprehensive titles without being too verbose. I'm sorry if in the end my comment turned out nitpicky. I really didn't mean it that way. I was just trying to express the irony I experienced.

[Blinkin]

Knowing the developers they'll stay true to their vision. No worries here.
Since TLD was presented in the crowdfunding a lot of additions have been made but the core stayed the same.

[Aagje]

1 hour ago, Pillock said:

I think the Custom game settings have opened a bit of a can of worms regarding this.

Not to be dismissive, but a simple solution is just not to use the Custom game settings. I don't.

(Not trying to sound like a badass gamer; I'm not. It took me 10+ attempts at Voyageur before I could make it to 25 days, Stalker still defeats me regularly, and I live in awe of those who not only play Interloper but find the time to investigate game mechanics at the same time -- I'm looking at you, @Pillock, and also @Drifter Man and the lot of you mad bastards who do the same.)

1 hour ago, Pillock said:

I don't really get how my character came into possession of [the world map] in the first place.

Airplane pilots will, occasionally, every once in a while, sometimes have maps of the regions they're flying over.

In the current game (not just Wintermute, but also new Sandbox runs) it's implied that you were a pilot. I don't know if that was always the case.

[StrayCat]

At first, I thought the OP was over-reacting. After all, i really think TLD can be improved from small additions and twists, sometimes whole new mecanisms (psychological state, etc).

Then I went back an read carefully the "wish list" section.
And I can't agree more with the OP. There are many topics when I refrain to answer, because the only thing I could say would be "those are just [insert really vulgar language here] stupid and dumb ideas, are we really playing the same game ??? ". And posting that would not help the debate (just getting me kicked/banned by the moderators  ).

But just like @Blinkin said, hinterland seems to stay true to their initial vision of the game. I guess we should not worry about it. The main problem is when mods will be available, so we will be flooded with automatic machineguns, zombies swarms (omg how I can see that happening in the first days... so easy to work from the wolves behavior...), RPG-7 to hunt wolves & rabbits, and orbital stations to nuke TWM.

[hozz1235]

21 hours ago, Pillock said:

(For example, I really want to turn off the world map.

You know what's great about the world map (and custom settings)?  You don't have to use them!  If you don't like rifles, don't pick one up, but don't ask HL to take the rifle out of the game.

[Blinkin]

I'm actually looking forward to mods. I've seen many examples where modding made an community that kept the game alive way after the original developer stopped supporting the game.

About being a pilot, that totally makes sense. And yes from the beginning the idea has been that one of the main characters is a pilot. For these thing I always refer to the original crowdfunding, it still has great information about what the devs intend the core of the game to be. They're doing a good job staying true to that vision while also listening to their community.

[Pillock]

1 hour ago, hozz1235 said:

You know what's great about the world map (and custom settings)?  You don't have to use them!  If you don't like rifles, don't pick one up, but don't ask HL to take the rifle out of the game.

If I wanted to take rifles out of the game (which I don't), then there is a custom setting for that. And there's Interloper. I'm not sure if there is an option to take the world map out of the game in the custom settings, but I can easily just not look at it again. (Though I can't undo the fact that I have inadvertently looked at it already.) I've spent my entire time in TLD avoiding the third-party maps, and I decided not to use the Faithful Cartographer mapping system after a bit of experimentation, because I don't like it much. Now I've accidentally seen the in-game world map, and I kind of wish I hadn't. 

The point I was making was that I hope the predefined Experience Modes (eg. Stalker, which is what I'm playing atm) don't change too much in terms of giving the player more equipment/tools that make those modes too much easier as a result. The custom settings allow for all sorts of things to be added as options, as long as players know in advance which features are included in which modes as default, and there are clear options for disabling them in Custom mode.

[Fuarian]

2 hours ago, Blinkin said:

I'm actually looking forward to mods. I've seen many examples where modding made an community that kept the game alive way after the original developer stopped supporting the game.

About being a pilot, that totally makes sense. And yes from the beginning the idea has been that one of the main characters is a pilot. For these thing I always refer to the original crowdfunding, it still has great information about what the devs intend the core of the game to be. They're doing a good job staying true to that vision while also listening to their community.

Mind you, I love Hinterland and all they've done. But their vision has shifted many times throughout the last 4 years. 

A lot seen here and here and even here never made it into the current game. Obviously I'm talking about the really small details mentioned there. The little things are what make the game good and are seemingly absent. Also keep in mind that the Story Mode is completely different from what they initially described it to be. 

Not hating, just observing.

[hozz1235]

On 2/13/2018 at 1:56 PM, Pillock said:

If I wanted to take rifles out of the game (which I don't), then there is a custom setting for that. And there's Interloper. I'm not sure if there is an option to take the world map out of the game in the custom settings, but I can easily just not look at it again. 

The custom settings allow for all sorts of things to be added as options, as long as players know in advance which features are included in which modes as default, and there are clear options for disabling them in Custom mode.

I just gave rifles as an example (maybe a poor one).

You can see what settings each pre-defined setting has - just select it under Custom and scroll through to see the settings.  I often do this to make a game really  close, to Interloper for example.

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @Bowie  

[Socojoe]

I am glad someone posted this.  It is nice when devs stay true to the game.  A lot of people have been asking for ALOT of different things, but I think they forget something very simple about TLD.  This game is based on a finite number of resources, if they add something, then logically some thing has to be reduced or removed to keep a balance.

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forms @Socojoe

On ‎2018‎-‎03‎-‎17 at 3:06 PM, Socojoe said:

I am glad someone posted this.  It is nice when devs stay true to the game.  A lot of people have been asking for ALOT of different things, but I think they forget something very simple about TLD.  This game is based on a finite number of resources, if they add something, then logically some thing has to be reduced or removed to keep a balance.

And there's an excellent example of that: scrap metal. Once upon a time, a can opener was an amazing find because you could loot it for precious, precious scrap metal to repair your hunting knife and eke out a few more days. With the introduction of the hacksaw scrap metal became so abundant whetstones were needed. But then forging was introduced and now coal is (potentially) the limiting factor. 

Choices and consequences as you said

[MarrowStone]

 I definitely see where this thread is coming from. There's plenty that could be added to the game but the sole act of inplementing each new thing correctly gets tougher and tougher. I have faith in the dev team witholding their vision however. They know the difference between a community informed and a community driven project. 

@cekivi, isnt coal a renewable resource? That means saplings are probably the limiting factor now. 

[cekivi]

39 minutes ago, MarrowStone said:

 

@cekivi, isnt coal a renewable resource? That means saplings are probably the limiting factor now. 

I always thought coal didn't respawn once collected... Could be wrong though

 

[private duksworth]

wait does it I have never noticed coal respawning

 

[MarrowStone]

2 hours ago, cekivi said:

I always thought coal didn't respawn once collected... Could be wrong though

 

 

1 hour ago, private duksworth said:

wait does it I have never noticed coal respawning

 

I couldve missed some in the dark or an update refreshed a cave but a timberwolf mountain cave I know I was in before seemed to be restocked. But I guess I could be wrong. I should do some testing first, apologies.

[cekivi]

Where's @Timber Wolf when you need him to do some testing!

[Samsonguy920]

On 2/13/2018 at 1:01 PM, Blinkin said:

I'm actually looking forward to mods. I've seen many examples where modding made an community that kept the game alive way after the original developer stopped supporting the game.

About being a pilot, that totally makes sense. And yes from the beginning the idea has been that one of the main characters is a pilot. For these thing I always refer to the original crowdfunding, it still has great information about what the devs intend the core of the game to be. They're doing a good job staying true to that vision while also listening to their community.

And Hinterland has stated more than once that modkits and modability are on the agenda.  The trick is giving the modders a stable game to work with. Making a mod for a game only to have the game have an update that ends up breaking the mod is frustrating for both the players using the mod as well as the modders. Though from what I have seen, it tends to be frustrating for the players much more.  On the other hand, with Early Access games, there have been mods that have actually been constituted into the main development to great effect.  (Those mod creators still got recognition for it, even though the developer is under zero obligation to do so. But that's another can of beans and we shouldn't get off track here.)

It is comforting to see those who are firm on keep the game the quiet apocalypse, and I have faith the developers intend to do so, as well.  But there is a long road yet, and there will be more changes and additions yet to come. There are at least two more maps promised, which are bound to introduce new features to the game.  The devs have even mentioned work towards maybe having a body as opposed to an incorporeal form in the game.  But they also stated that was a long term project.  I'm kinda hopeful for that one, as well as the additional regions.

[hozz1235]

On 3/19/2018 at 6:16 PM, cekivi said:

I always thought coal didn't respawn once collected... Could be wrong though

I've travelled through caves picking up every piece of coal and when I've gone back through (some days later), I've found more coal.  I just reasoned it breaks loose from a vein in the ceiling.  Conclusion:  does respawn!