cekivi

A Difficulty to Call Your Own

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The problem is the settings on 'default' Interloper are already the most sparse possible for game (except Bears and Wolves, and even Wolves are a bit lower, and yes the Custom Game Interloper defaults are WRONG and have wolves higher then they actually should be, as Stalker and Interloper are actually flipped).

I understand what you are trying to do, but the problem is the Interloper late game curve was already as unforgiving as the game allows. There are only a few settings that were added that actually make the game harder then Interloper was before (Lower condition gain/disable it completely, lower plant amounts, 1 notch higher thirst, and you can make fatigue much faster, although you can argue that getting tired faster = more condition regain from sleeping so it's a bit of a wash in that case). And you can totally turn off Deer for example now. There just isn't that much leeway in the existing options in most areas, and in most cases Interloper already had everything at the hardest available setting*. Wildlife spawns for everything but Wolves/Bears was already the lowest possible, and respawn rates were already the lowest possible as well.

*There is some added room for some super hardcore modes where almost everything is off and it's a legitimate struggle to even make it a few weeks, but those are by design short term challenges since they would involve making it effectively impossible to play long term (turning wildlife off, turning off all condition gain). I have some ideas on proposed challenges in this vein, but this is fundamentally different then 'normal gameplay'.

 

Rambling about customization:

It's kind of something I wanted to write more about while talking about customisation options; the custom game system currently is good for mixing and matching between modes, but completely lacks '*extremes' (outside of simply disabling things entirely which isn't generally a good thing as it leads to very 1 dimensional games that are only interesting in the short term). It also lacks a bunch of options that (IMHO) should exist, such as tweaking indoor temps, for example by making them scale with world temperature drop (so -20C to -25C indoors late game Interloper, meaning you actually need clothes and in some cases a fire even indoors). And some settings completely lack granularity. Right now for world temperature drop you can either have it drop by 5 degrees over 200 days, 10 degrees over 200 days, or 20 degrees over 50 days (well they all have floors so this isn't exact, but it's pretty close). There is no in between as the first two are barely noticeable (by the time they take effect, you have clothes good enough to not care outside of blizzards/early morning, and -10 just isn't enough to matter by then), and the last one is almost oppressive (to the point where some players just ignore clothing other then for frostbite protection) and makes you feel very rushed in the early game. Loot is similar. You can either have hatchets and knives scattered almost everywhere with multiples on most maps, or none at all. No option for '2-3 hatchets/knives in the whole game world' as an example. Rifle? Again, same thing, either rifles everywhere, or no rifles at all. You also have no influence over base temperatures, or temperature differences between maps. And so on and so on.

Note that I am not blaming Hinterland for not having all those things I mention. Some of them would likely require a lot of work to implement (and we may never see them outside of mods, depending on how hard they are to add and competing development priorities). At the end of the day there will always be some option 'missing' to someone and at some point the developers are simply better off just focusing on other things like new content. But I bring it up, and I brought up making a little 'guide' to the settings, because it seems a lot of people don't understand exactly what you can and cannot change (and how much fine tuning you can and cannot do).

*Extremes do not always need to be for the sake of 'super hard difficulty' either. As an example, I am sure there are many people who would love to play a mode where animals were extremely scarce overall to the point where you legitimately had to travel to hunt and not just sit around a 'base' in the late game. You could easily balance that out with easier settings in other areas. But you can't actually make wildlife that scarce currently, you can either turn it off completely, or you can have it be 'still fairly abundant' on the lowest possible setting. As another example, imagine a game mode where blizzards are very rare, but literally last for weeks at a time. The current options don't allow you to make something like that. Again, not saying Hinterland should spend forever trying to please every single person (honestly this is where mods should come in), but it's certainly interesting to consider the possibilities.

Less Rambling and more On Topic: If you do want to make the early game more forgiving (while keeping Interloper loot ie no hatchets ect), the best way (and I agree this has problems) is probably increasing the amount of random loot, as this gives a lot more clothes/matches, which are very helpful in the early game (and not very useful in the late game, other then hats, but hey). Reducing freezing rate obviously makes it much easier too, but that affects the late game just as much if not even more. 

Edited by Troxism
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Played around with some more settings, but I've come to the same conclusion. What I'm looking for isn't likely available as animal spawn numbers are already at their lowest at interloper, so there is more or less the capability to "set up shop" in all the places you normally could, unless you turn respawning off, which makes areas kind of inhabitable after they've been depopulated.

Which I might try, anyway. Given the number of deer/bears/moose/wolves on the lowest setting, that's probably more than I'd normally spend in a single sandbox instance anyway, and it'll give me at least a sensation of having to migrate for a reason other than seeking out more loot. I also turned the animal sensitivity to the highest level, which makes hunting require a lot more accuracy and/or patience. 

It's good to tinker and see how all the different variables impact the experience. I've known the balance must be tricky to get right, and Raphael has hinted as much on a few occasions, but it's nice to run my own experiments. 

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I wanna play :(

I'm on Xbox one :(

Hoping to see the update today. intend to make the most realistic sandbox possible, as I strive for realism, and I'll be posting that here :)

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4 hours ago, Tbone555 said:

I wanna play :(

I'm on Xbox one :(

Hoping to see the update today. intend to make the most realistic sandbox possible, as I strive for realism, and I'll be posting that here :)

Me too, I’m on Xbox. I would hope today, as I read that certification takes 5-7 days, and the update came out last Thursday, so either today, tomorrow, or Thursday is when we can expect our update. This new custom difficulty will make for some good community challenges.

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14 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

I'll post up the experience code when I am convinced I have the settings correct, but I've been loving the low condition recovery.

I'm trying to get a mode that revolves around long term condition trading.  Basically trying to have more deaths come gradually, rather than losing it all in an ill fated wolf struggle. 

So far I am going for interloper level loot and the harshest, coldest weather. Then, decreasing wildlife spawns, decreasing item decay rates, lengthening the day/night, lowering thirst/hunger requirements, and minimising the impact of wolf struggles. Considering whether to do away with wolves altogether, but at the highest fear and lowest damage they're barely an issue. 

The idea is that every meal is hard to come by, but lasts you longer. The low condition recovery means starvation and excessive time spent out in the cold will require a lot of recovery, but you will need to keep moving as you quickly depopulate a region.  So even though the moment to moment threats are lower, condition loss builds if you haven't had the opportunity to rest up for a few days. 

I'm messing around with something like this myself.  Like you, I made weather and weather decay as harsh as possible but turned down hunger and thirst.  Unlike you, I set struggle damage on the harshest settings.  I set wolves and bears to Low so they remain a rare but real threat I can't forget about.

So far I'm using condition recovery still at medium.  You're tempting me to go for low, because I'm not needing to really manage my condition yet.

Edited by Ruruwawa
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Yes! Now console players have Rugged Sentinal. Here’s a difficulty to call my own. This is a fairly even mode, with a focus on the new MOOSE. Enjoy. 

Code: 8o1p-V1Vd-KxFv-Goxt-MQEA

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Now for players like me, I never really like Interloper (mostly cuz I can’t live long enough to get a routine down), and usually play Stalker, but there’s too many wolves! So here’s a custom Stalker difficulty with less wolves, more moose, and a little less bears. Also, there’s less overall gear that spawns.

Code: 8omZ-mmpa-KhqH-ZCOG-LgEA

Edit: after dying to a wolf while I was at 75% condition, I’ve decided to tweak this. Use that code above if you want to die to a wolf. Use the code below for the better tuned custom Stalker.

8kmY-mmpa-KBqH-pClu-LgEA

Edited by omoon66
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+s7f-Ew6t-Dw4N-S0tW-rwAA

in theory this is the most realistic sandbox possible, while still sticking with the vicious wolves and aurora effects. All afflictions except parasites are enabled, day time is at 4x, I adjusted hunger to low and thirst to medium to account for the time scale, most locations will be empty and you'll find yourself living off the land a lot more often. wildlife is alert but plentiful, however it's gonna be a constant gripping battle against the wolves to claim the carcass, as I turned them WAY up. gone are the days of simply walking  away from the vicious snarling animal on you. avoiding them altogether is gonna be your only chance of survival. the weather will be harsh and unforgiving and the land will be near impossible to adapt to. thankfully, you're a pilot and keep an emergency kit in your plane, so I tuned the starting gear to high. don't expect a free ride. But if you can adapt to this new dark world through persistence and grit, you may survive the quiet apocalypse yet. It is definitely possible to master, difficult and unforgiving as it is, although many will no doubt perish. good luck, fellow survivors. stay warm out there.

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51 minutes ago, Tbone555 said:

in theory this is the most realistic sandbox possible, while still sticking with the vicious wolves and aurora effects.

If we're talking 'realistic', I'm surprised you didn't get rid of cabin fever. And the problem with 4x days is, it makes it almost impossible to freeze to death, as has been pointed out above by @Troxism.

Edited by JAFO

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29 minutes ago, JAFO said:

If we're talking 'realistic', I'm surprised you didn't get rid of cabin fever. And the problem with 4x days is, it makes it almost impossible to freeze to death, as has been pointed out above by @Troxism.

Yeah I just did a bit of play testing. doesn't quite work the way I thought it would. in theory, as I said. But. not in practice. the time scale really needs some tuning.

The cabin fever thing has always been a big argument. I guess that the way it's handled in game and having to sleep outdoors for 24 hours is unrealistic, however cabin fever is a very real thing that can cause a lot of psychological trauma

I guess I'll tune the time scale down and see how that works for me. Will post an updated code.

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Okay. here's an updated code. I play tested and I'm proud to say I have officially perfected my personal sandbox experience.

+s5Y-mwrd-DAod-DUWG-rAAA

Basically this combines aspects of all experience modes to my liking, since each experience mode had something I particularly liked that wasn't present in the more difficult ones. for instance: the wolves are incredibly aggressive and difficult as on interloper, but the weather is basically set to stalker. supplies are extremely scarce as on interloper, however you start off with great starting equipment. aurora is set to high, food and water consumption set to stalker default, fires immediately warm you, parasites are disabled, more dangerous wildlife is very common while deer, moose, rabbit and fish might take some hunting down, decay rates are low, animal extinction is low, and colder weather over time is low, and recovery rate is low.

So far I am having the funnest experience I've ever had playing the long dark. I'm only on day 15 and already I've been reduced to foraging for mushrooms and rose hips just to keep from starving to death, took down a bear in desperation, almost died 4 times, and have been witness to the aurora and the technological glory it brings about twice a week. also was basically forced to go from mystery lake to desolation point because I had no rifle and was so desperate foraging for food that I just had to keep moving. most locations are empty - just the way they should be. I strongly urge any veteran tld player to take part in this experience mode that I so proudly have titled - Vigilant Forager. because I've spent more time dodging wolves and foraging food than anything :P

Edited by Tbone555
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Could anyone tell me how to make an Interloper Sandbox with just the rifle added?

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On ‎2018‎-‎03‎-‎05 at 11:47 AM, June said:

Could anyone tell me how to make an Interloper Sandbox with just the rifle added?

On custom difficulty select "interloper" at the top then scroll down to the loot tables and increase the... I think it's called variety? My laptop doesn't have enough power to boot the game at the moment :$

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Can someone help me out with Customs game?

I created a Stalker-based sandbox with the intension to tone down wolves a bit and remove some other things that annoy me (like Cabin fever). Basically, wildlife respawn frequency = low, smell and detection range = close, smell range = low, detection range = close. The baseline resource availability = medium (Stalker default).

The result is somewhat other than expected after roughly 3 game weeks. First of all, the resources seem to be too plentiful, not Stalker-like at all but rather Voyageur-like (and making the game boringly easy). The wolves' fear, if effected at all, is not noticeable, they attack as is usual on Stalker. Detection distance looks to be working correctly though.

The respawn frequency seems to be higher rather than lower. I've set time scale to 2x (10 min = 1 in-game hour) and wolves respawn faster than in a default Stalker sandbox I've been playing to 300 days now. The 'respawn' setting looks broken to me.

Now I am very inclined to continue playing a standard Stalker sandbox and put off Custom game until this is fixed. Is it going to be fixed in the next patch? Is it really broken or is it just my incomplete impression based on a single sandbox?

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Hopefully we see settings for things that we need like knife and hatchet not just the general loot setting. To my game those would always be in play since you would absolutely see them up there but maybe clothing could be limited or food. Maybe shelter limited etc

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On 16/04/2018 at 7:39 PM, Balamute said:

Can someone help me out with Customs game?

I created a Stalker-based sandbox with the intension to tone down wolves a bit and remove some other things that annoy me (like Cabin fever). 

As far as we seem to have worked out, the Baseline Resource Availability has a bigger impact on the other settings, such that low wolves on the Stalker baseline is not the same as low wolves on other settings. 

Depending on what you are looking for, it might be better to start from a Voyageur base and tune from there. You'd need to tone the container and loose item rate down but I don't know what it looks like if you do that, it might still be too much.

Alternatively you can go from interloper and tune from there. I've got a low wolf pop/higher item find interloper run going, and so far I've counted 2 wolves on Mystery Lake, one near the rail tunnel to FM, one over the hill from Trapper's, and 2 along the rail line between the camp office and carter dam. There's probably another one or two around the river with the hunters blind and pensive pond, but it's definitely not stalker levels. 

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