A new thing for drawers

[Reahs]

This might not really be a game changer but when we search drawers we can hear our character look through random stuff to find something useful, I think that we should be able to collect the dust and small bits of flammables that might be in the drawers corners similar to collecting charcoal from furnaces.

I don't think that we should get a tinder from it but maybe a small pile of flammables that is worse than tinder

[Prestermatt]

Honestly, there's too much tinder already in the game, and it serves no purpose once you have Fire level 3.

[Reahs]

It's maybe useful for interloper players?

[Mroz4k]

15 hours ago, Reahs said:

It's maybe useful for interloper players?

There should be nothing "useful" about interloper, you answered your own question.

16 hours ago, Prestermatt said:

Honestly, there's too much tinder already in the game, and it serves no purpose once you have Fire level 3.

That is not true but I am not surprised, this is a very common misconception most players have.

Using tinder on higher levels makes sense - it helps you prepare the fire faster. So, you don't get to wait so long for the "circle" of fire to finish, and it also means you would have started the fire sooner, so you will have a second or two of fire more. Might not seem like much, but one or two seconds can be a matter of life or death if you are starting the fire on a stick. If you don't use tinder, you might finish the fire with 2 seconds left, and if you are not quick enough, the fire will go out before you add more firewood on it. It may not be a massive difference, but there is actually a difference to using a tinder or not on level 3 and above.

But I agree there is plenty of tinder as in in the game, already. This is unnecessary.

Besides, the items in those drawers don't have to be flammable, it just really might be useless junk, for example, plastic toys or some crap like that.

[Reahs]

perhaps they can change the sound because nothing can be called junk in a game where anything is useful.

[KinoUnko]

Tinder doesn't make fire start faster. Level 1~4 it takes 32 sec to start a fire, if successful, with or without tinder. Level 5 it takes 16 sec with or without tinder. Burn time remaining after fire start depends on skill level and outdoor duration bonus, not tinder use.

The only thing that changes fire starting speed in real time is accelerant or lantern fuel. 2.5 sec in realtime, and negligible burn duration cost.

[Riotintheair]

On 10/21/2017 at 4:15 AM, Mroz4k said:

There should be nothing "useful" about interloper, you answered your own question.

That is not true but I am not surprised, this is a very common misconception most players have.

Using tinder on higher levels makes sense - it helps you prepare the fire faster. So, you don't get to wait so long for the "circle" of fire to finish, and it also means you would have started the fire sooner, so you will have a second or two of fire more. Might not seem like much, but one or two seconds can be a matter of life or death if you are starting the fire on a stick. If you don't use tinder, you might finish the fire with 2 seconds left, and if you are not quick enough, the fire will go out before you add more firewood on it. It may not be a massive difference, but there is actually a difference to using a tinder or not on level 3 and above.

But I agree there is plenty of tinder as in in the game, already. This is unnecessary.

Besides, the items in those drawers don't have to be flammable, it just really might be useless junk, for example, plastic toys or some crap like that.

I just tested this and there is no discernable difference at level 5 fire starting with and without tender. Using it neither accelerates the length of time to start a fire, nor does it give any additional duration (a one stick started fire ends its starting phase at 8 mins left just moving to reporting 7 mins left and goes out after exactly the same amount of time with and without tender). Not sure if they removed this or if it was never a thing but it definitely doesn't appear to function this way in v1.15. 

Test conducted with matches and cat tail heads and a stick in Farmhouse fire place and stove (5 trials in each spot with with and without tender, with no differences seen on any trial). This appears to be entirely deterministic with no variations detected between any trial.

Edit: it seems @KinoUnko was also testing this and tested lower level firestarting too and had similar results.

[JAFO]

6 hours ago, Riotintheair said:

I just tested this and there is no discernable difference at level 5 fire starting with and without tender. Using it neither accelerates the length of time to start a fire, nor does it give any additional duration (a one stick started fire ends its starting phase at 8 mins left just moving to reporting 7 mins left and goes out after exactly the same amount of time with and without tender). Not sure if they removed this or if it was never a thing but it definitely doesn't appear to function this way in v1.15. 

To the best of my knowledge, it was never a thing..

[Mroz4k]

16 hours ago, KinoUnko said:

negligible burn duration cost.

NEGLIGIBLE?

There is a SOLID difference in between how much fire duration there is left on the fire if you use lantern fuel/accelerant to start the fire or not. On a stick, you are left with 5 minutes left as opposed to general 3-2 minutes left of a fire if you use accelerants. That is a pretty solid difference when starting the fire out of the stick, as it gives you time to add more fire on it, you don't have to rush.

And I know it for a FACT that the tinder makes (or made) the circle of the fire start faster, I measured it. I also measured the time left on a fire if started with/wíthout the tinder, and I did it outside, but at the same time of the day, so unless the conditions just happen to change, the weather conditions should have been the same.

Not that it matters because I will often burn tinders indoors and I know that there is at least a second difference when using the tinder and not using it.

We are not talking about hours worth of fire, the differences are in +- a minute of fire, maybe even less. So, if you are building fires with cedar, you most likely do not care... but when it comes to starting fires out of sticks, especially in indoor fireplaces, this extra minute of fire is useful, as it makes it easier to add more firewood on before the fire goes out.

Finally, if we use a magnifying glass to start fires since this circle goes out longer during the fire starting, you will often get fire in "embers" or already a doused fireplace, if you attempt to start a fire without tinder using a magnifying glass, on a stick. 

I did not bother to mention that higher levels make your fire starting easier - that was obvious from the start. It literally says so in the skill description. I was merely pointing out there are differences in using the tinder as opposed to not using it.

And finally, if there was no difference - why would it say "optional" in the section of the tinder when the fire is started?  That message in itself prompted me to do tests with this in the past, and I came across the fact that using tinder does actually make sense, but the difference it makes is more less negligible unless you are starting off the sticks.

Now, the only way this is NOT a thing anymore is if it changed recently in Wintermute, but I doubt it.

If this changed I will be pissed. Used to be impossible to start a fire on a stick with a magnifying glass on level 3 without the tinder, and have it "living" - either in embers or just doused out. With tinder in place you could make fire with 1 minute left, which was usually not enough to add more firewood on anyways, but it was still a sign that there is, in fact, a difference.

[Prestermatt]

12 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

If this changed I will be pissed. Used to be impossible to start a fire on a stick with a magnifying glass on level 3 without the tinder, and have it "living" - either in embers or just doused out. With tinder in place you could make fire with 1 minute left,

I've been playing since Faithful Cartographer, and I haven't noticed any change, with tinder or without.  Starting a fire with the magnifying glass and a stick gives me 2 minutes of fire.  Tinder makes no difference.

[KinoUnko]

Don't get your knickers in a bunch...

Last set of tests were using wood matches and stick, as well as with books, reclaimed wood, and cedar logs. none of the results suggested tinder use made a difference in fire starting speed in game, or real, time.

some more numbers...
at level 1, cardboard match and stick (7min/stick), 1min remaining indoors, 1min remaining outdoors. 7min remaining if using accelerant in both cases.
at level 3, cardboard match and stick (8min/stick), 2min remaining indoors, 4min remaining outdoors, with or without tinder.
at level 5, cardboard match and stick (11min/stick), 8min (10.5~11min remain with lamp fuel) remaining indoors, 9min (10.5~11min remain with lamp fuel) remaining outdoors, with or without tinder.

so maybe there's a small difference in game-time if you are using accelerant at level 5, lets be generous and say 30 seconds in game, which is a few sec real time, assuming 1 Game Day/2 real hours still holds. Pretty negligible.

So far all the numbers I have, as well as few other players, suggest there's no real benefit to using tinder once you get to fire start 3.